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Post by carrman on Sept 12, 2014 12:23:55 GMT -8
Handrails are not perfect, but they are better:   |
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Post by tom on Sept 12, 2014 12:36:33 GMT -8
Well those flat handrails will stop me from purchasiing this locomotive! What were they thinking? "Well we have lots of photos showing round handrails but AHM must have known what they were doing back in the 1960s..." The trucks do not look massive enough to me taking away some of that "U25C look". www.pbase.com/espeef5/image/38993216 |
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Post by Mark R. on Sept 12, 2014 12:48:44 GMT -8
Two things jump out at me besides the flat handrails ....
1 - The front side handrail on the engineer's side has to have the stanchion leaning in so the handrail aligns with the face of the cab.
2 - The end handrails are too narrow at the top causing the verticals at the steps to lean inward.
Since these are made from brass / bronze, an ambitious modeller could snip the railings from the stanchions and solder on correct wire ....
Mark.
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Post by thb401 on Sept 12, 2014 13:09:45 GMT -8
Better than the one I had as a kid.
I dont model the PRR anymore. So need for any here.
Tom. Maybe some weathering would help the looks of the trucks.
Thanks for the pics Dave.
Bill
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Post by carrman on Sept 12, 2014 13:24:36 GMT -8
Well those flat handrails will stop me from purchasiing this locomotive! What were they thinking? "Well we have lots of photos showing round handrails but AHM must have known what they were doing back in the 1960s..." The trucks do not look massive enough to me taking away some of that "U25C look". www.pbase.com/espeef5/image/38993216What they were thinking is that this could be a mass produced solution to everyones complaints about the fine delrin handrails we all hate. Dave |
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Sept 12, 2014 15:16:20 GMT -8
Where are the photos from, please? Are these hitting the market? Thanks!
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Post by carrman on Sept 12, 2014 16:18:23 GMT -8
Where are the photos from, please? Are these hitting the market? Thanks! Rivarossis Facebook page. |
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Post by bdhicks on Sept 12, 2014 16:52:33 GMT -8
Those chains are mighty beefy. The brakewheel also looks big to me, but I don't know if it is actually oversized or if that's just the way the prototype is, since I'm not too familiar with U-boats.
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Post by atsfan on Sept 12, 2014 18:47:00 GMT -8
Does this engine have a solid release date announced?
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Post by slowfreight on Sept 12, 2014 19:09:16 GMT -8
The railings, drop steps, etc., look eminently fixable. But it will mean removing, filling the holes, and starting over. Not sure a good source for donor handrail stanchions, as I don't play with GE at all.
Compared to scratchbuilding a U25 or stretching a Stewart U25B, it's a durn good starting point, methinks. But for the $ it will cost, I can understand being annoyed with putting that kind of work into it.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 12, 2014 19:09:39 GMT -8
The trucks on the new model are quite similar to the ones on the old one. And neither look a lot like the referenced prototype photo. MAYBE the photo is "misdirecting", but I don't think so. I'm agreeing with Tom. And, it's interesting, because until now, I hadn't noticed.
The handrails on the new one are very similar to the ones on the old one. A dramatic difference is that the old one had a horizontal element down low, kind of along the walkway. This one, happily, doesn't. A person might take a file and round over the handrail. I hope this person would, anyway.
It could be noted that the old one is a Phase II, and the new one is a Phase IIIb. I think. They ARE different phases.
Ed
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 19:11:46 GMT -8
As far as I can see, this is copied die work from the original Riv shell with enhancements. Think Athearn with the old Front Range GP7/9 body. The original Riv shell had scribed hood doors, which I'm not a fan of. And where are the dynamic brake grids behind the radiator screen? The handrail mounts are the same as the old Riv shell. I admit, I'll have to see one in person to pass judgment for sure, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 12, 2014 19:18:13 GMT -8
I'm comparing the very nice photo of the new one with an old one in my hands. It isn't a copy. Most every little thingy is slightly different in slightly a different place. And it's a different phase. That said, it does appear that they may have made the same mistakes twice, the sideframes being one. The two are similar--not the same. And apparently both equally wrongish.
The handrail mounts are slightly different but basically the same. The dramatic difference is the removal of the non-prototypical horizontal element.
Ed
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 20:49:06 GMT -8
Let's just say they used the original as a basis for what they are bringing out with enhancements. Improved walkways for one. I didn't think the old Riv trucks were that bad myself. I'll still wait to see one in person before I make a judgment call.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 22:00:32 GMT -8
The trucks on the new model are quite similar to the ones on the old one. And neither look a lot like the referenced prototype photo. MAYBE the photo is "misdirecting", but I don't think so. I'm agreeing with Tom. And, it's interesting, because until now, I hadn't noticed. Ed What, exactly, is the problem you see with the trucks? What dimensions are off? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 22:02:43 GMT -8
Let's just say they used the original as a basis for what they are bringing out with enhancements. Improved walkways for one. I didn't think the old Riv trucks were that bad myself. I'll still wait to see one in person before I make a judgment call. It's an all-new model, not enhanced. |
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Post by carrman on Sept 12, 2014 22:19:46 GMT -8
Does this engine have a solid release date announced? Direct from the Hornby Facebook page: "Here's a few pictures of the new Rivarossi HO U25C- shown are both the Pennsy units with the newly modified handrail profile. These units along with the other roadnames are expected to be available October 2014." |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 23:33:05 GMT -8
Let's just say they used the original as a basis for what they are bringing out with enhancements. Improved walkways for one. I didn't think the old Riv trucks were that bad myself. I'll still wait to see one in person before I make a judgment call. It's an all-new model, not enhanced. They can say all new model all they want, it still looks like they copied the old tooling for the body, and the handrails, at least, with modifications. I have 13 of the old Riv models. I don't like them, but at the time, thats all there was. |
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Post by Brakie on Sept 13, 2014 1:02:24 GMT -8
They can say all new model all they want, it still looks like they copied the old tooling for the body, and the handrails, at least, with modifications.
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I agree it does look like a improved AHM model.
Is it me or is the body to high off the trucks which would kill the deal if I needed U25Cs?
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Post by catt on Sept 13, 2014 4:27:58 GMT -8
Why not find a good profile shot of the prototype and compare the pics.That would definitely show whats right and whats wrong with the model.
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Post by theengineshed on Sept 13, 2014 5:28:59 GMT -8
Why not find a good profile shot of the prototype and compare the pics.That would definitely show whats right and whats wrong with the model. Was toying with this comparison this morning- same phase. Handrails in front of the cab don't have enough 3D, they do look better than the previous version, but I expect they won't cut it for a certain percentage of potential buyers. My shot of the 1503 doesn't show the rectangular dynamic brake grids that well, but I don't see these on the Rivarossi model, the grids were quite prominent from certain angles. I can't help but draw comparisons to the Bowser C-430, it really looks the part. I suspect if I'm going to be satisfied to the same degree with this model, it is going to take some work. Aftermarket etched stanchions might sell well. Since these are going to be available in October, what you see is what you are going to get, this is probably a production model. Rivarossi should be commended for releasing such high res photos. That really helps manage expectations.  |
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Post by markfj on Sept 13, 2014 5:41:46 GMT -8
I just did a side-by-side comparison of the photo in the OP and the one Tom linked to in his post. The distance between the top of the trucks and the bottom of the frame seems to be greater than the prototype. Because the photo of the model was taken against a white backdrop, this extra space creates the illusion that the trucks are smaller. Look at the distance between say one of the brake cylinders and the frame, and you’ll see the distance between the two is greater on the model.
Sorry, but I just can’t agree with any reasoning for their decision to make “flat” handrails. There are just too many alternative materials and methods available that can produce accurate and durable handrails.
Thanks, Mark
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Post by carrman on Sept 13, 2014 7:20:18 GMT -8
You don't have to agree with it, it is what it is. You wait for the KBM model that may or may not ever come, or try and make your own handrails for the Rivarossi. And if there are so many alternatives to Delrin handrails, how come no one has done them yet?
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Post by onequiknova on Sept 13, 2014 8:36:49 GMT -8
And if there are so many alternatives to Delrin handrails, how come no one has done them yet? Durable and scale handrails could be done if manufacturers went back to user applied railings. Like an updated version of BB railings. Fat chance of getting everyone to do some modeling though. |
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Post by Mark R. on Sept 13, 2014 8:58:47 GMT -8
And if there are so many alternatives to Delrin handrails, how come no one has done them yet? Durable and scale handrails could be done if manufacturers went back to user applied railings. Like an updated version of BB railings. Fat chance of getting everyone to do some modeling though. I've always wondered if it would be possible to make injection molded delrin stanchions that would surround a metal railing right in the injection process ? They can do it with track ! Mark. |
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Post by onequiknova on Sept 13, 2014 9:10:49 GMT -8
Durable and scale handrails could be done if manufacturers went back to user applied railings. Like an updated version of BB railings. Fat chance of getting everyone to do some modeling though. I've always wondered if it would be possible to make injection molded delrin stanchions that would surround a metal railing right in the injection process ? They can do it with track ! Mark. Now that would be cool. MTH has the right idea using wire handrails with plastic stanchions, but the stanchions need to be improved in the size department. |
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Post by TBird1958 on Sept 13, 2014 9:30:29 GMT -8
No part of this.....  Is part of this......No way.  |
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Post by Donnell Wells on Sept 13, 2014 10:20:56 GMT -8
Why not find a good profile shot of the prototype and compare the pics.That would definitely show whats right and whats wrong with the model. Was toying with this comparison this morning- same phase. Handrails in front of the cab don't have enough 3D, they do look better than the previous version, but I expect they won't cut it for a certain percentage of potential buyers. My shot of the 1503 doesn't show the rectangular dynamic brake grids that well, but I don't see these on the Rivarossi model, the grids were quite prominent from certain angles. I can't help but draw comparisons to the Bowser C-430, it really looks the part. I suspect if I'm going to be satisfied to the same degree with this model, it is going to take some work. Aftermarket etched stanchions might sell well. Since these are going to be available in October, what you see is what you are going to get, this is probably a production model. Rivarossi should be commended for releasing such high res photos. That really helps manage expectations. View Attachment
The only things I notice outright about the model are that the body does ride just a tad higher than the prototype, the fuel tank sits a tad high, and the grille etchings could be much finer. The tooling looks really good, and seems to capture well the likeness of the prototype. The stanchions actually look right except for the lack of a round handrail. I don't really care for their stanchion mounting solution, but then again I don't plan on purchasing this locomotive, so it's not that big of a deal for me. However, for those that want a U25C this is "the only game in town" until someone comes with something better. Well, I suppose you could use the Kaslo solution, or perform major surgery on the AHM/Rivarossi model. You could also kitbash a couple of Proto U-boat shell or use an Athearn U28C. IIRC, the early U28Cs shared the same body.
Donnell |
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Post by Spikre on Sept 13, 2014 11:02:21 GMT -8
 well Rivo did get that extra length on the rear boxes above the walkway, PRR had that,think L&N did also ? any other roads have that ? thought the Dynamics were behind the rear air intakes below the radiators ? since EL didn't have U25Cs mainly saw the Q and NP un its after the BN merger,also their similar looking U28Cs. did see a few SCL U25Cs before they went back to GE or Mexico, but never close enuff to really look them over. Edit-- got the pic of the L&N unit to blow up, behind the screens are the Air tanks for the larger fuel tank option,so maybe that solves those screens near the cab ? will be waiting to see these units in person,but so far the KBM looks better. Spikre 
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Post by Spikre on Sept 13, 2014 11:14:46 GMT -8
 Donnell, the Athearn or Proto U-Boats are the later "Pug" bodies. have seen U25Cs bashed from Stewart U25B bodies,they looked credible. have also seen up-graded original Rivo bodied units on Hobbytown drives that looked good for their time frame,and also pulled well. but either way takes plenty of work to get a decent U25C. the U28C Phs-2 had the later style body similar to the U30C,etc. also they didn't have Tri-Mount trucks,but the GSC or ADK solid cast Steel trucks. Spikre
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