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Post by Brakie on May 21, 2015 12:14:45 GMT -8
Great points, peoriaman. What's bizarre about the idea that someone with a camera represents a threat must come from watching WAY too many Cold War era spy thrillers. And with Google Earth and its Streetview mode, who even needs to come by and take a picture of something with the apparent (to some people) goal of blowing it up, when you can do the recon from your cozy chair at the coffee shop? If you just happen to be a terrorist and not a railfan, of course.
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One thing that can not be explained away is how thousands of us at trackside daily taking photos of trains and are never hassled but, few claim to have been harassed by the local or railroad cops. A security officer authority ends at the property line of the company he is assigned to and as no authority to say anything on public lands-this includes sidewalks on a public street in front of the business. Then how about the two new rail parks built for railfans? Anybody care to explain those away? There may be a third one in the planning stage.
Then you have video companies like Pentrex,Green Frog,Highball Productions and others like companies that shots videos on a daily bases.
I'm not buying every song of railfan woe that is sung on the internet since we have one side of the story.The biggest question I have is what really took place?
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Post by peoriaman on May 21, 2015 16:30:54 GMT -8
I'm not buying every song of railfan woe that is sung on the internet since we have one side of the story. By that line of reasoning, I could say the same thing about diabetes, or jury duty, or teen pregnancy... Its never happened to me, or to anyone I know, so it must not be real. |
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Post by atsfan on May 21, 2015 17:14:10 GMT -8
I'm not buying every song of railfan woe that is sung on the internet since we have one side of the story. By that line of reasoning, I could say the same thing about diabetes, or jury duty, or teen pregnancy... Its never happened to me, or to anyone I know, so it must not be real. No By that line of reasoning you would say that not everybody has diabetes, not everyone's teenage daughter gets pregnant and not everyone is on jury. In short, the guys who sit at home listening to the Internet stories that cops are lurking at every track are missing life. |
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Post by atsfan on May 21, 2015 17:17:52 GMT -8
I can well understand railroads don't need employees who are not willing to follow procedures, or who cannot focus on the task at hand. No industry does. All work involving heavy machinery is inherently dangerous. Of course they will screen out people who show they can't handle the work. But Aspergers and autism are medical terms describing an exceptionally wide range of symptoms, to the point that a fair number of medical people question whether the labels have any real useful Because I'm not a doctor I've use the words tendencies, behaviors, etc. Tendency equals stereotype. All are not legal in hiring. |
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Post by atsfan on May 21, 2015 17:24:11 GMT -8
Your example is the exception. And the others in this thread with the same complaints must be the exceptions too... :rolleyes I should have mentioned earlier - the problem isn't "trains", its "photography". Photography forums and websites contain countless examples of people who have set up to shoot, say, buildings downtown, or signs, or storefronts or various other things outside the realm of ordinary "touristy" stuff and been called in to or hassled by the police (real or rent-a-cop). All from public property. If you need examples I could post enough links to fill the entire bandwidth of this forum. Everyone nowadays thinks the guy with the camera is the next 9-11 bomber. OK, not everyone, just some people. That's for those who don't understand hyperbole. I don't hide in the basement And I Dont get hassled Everyone does not think the guy with the camera is a bomber, that is absurd With millions of cell phones everyone has a camera |
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Post by Donnell Wells on May 21, 2015 17:42:40 GMT -8
Omaha, let's stick with trains and leave medical diagnosis and associated effects to the medical journals, forums, and community.
Donnell I'm not making any medical diagnoses. I'm describing why railroads have issues with behaviors that are frequently associated with railfans. Are you more interested in the way railroads work, or the way you would like them to work? If you don't like what I post, ban me or delete my posts and further increase the forum's railfan-to-railroader ratio, because I will keep posting what I know. Your choice.
Omaha, I am not going to ban you because of your views. I will say however, that I was a Union Pacific engineer, who was/is also a railfan and modeler, and many people at work knew it! I got great access to all types of equipment! In fact, many railroaders that I worked with were also avid rail enthusiasts and modelers including a few managers! So, it is my opinion that prognosis is merely a strongly held opinion rather than fact, especially if you, as a manager, based your decision to hire or fire an employee on it. You cannot correlate someone being a railfan and its affect on their performance as a railroad employee. It's no different than commercial or military pilots that actually love flying or are aircraft enthusiasts, or truck drivers that build model trucks, or professional race car drivers that love all things automotive...
Donnell |
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Post by peoriaman on May 21, 2015 17:43:07 GMT -8
And the others in this thread with the same complaints must be the exceptions too... :rolleyes I should have mentioned earlier - the problem isn't "trains", its "photography". Photography forums and websites contain countless examples of people who have set up to shoot, say, buildings downtown, or signs, or storefronts or various other things outside the realm of ordinary "touristy" stuff and been called in to or hassled by the police (real or rent-a-cop). All from public property. If you need examples I could post enough links to fill the entire bandwidth of this forum. Everyone nowadays thinks the guy with the camera is the next 9-11 bomber. OK, not everyone, just some people. That's for those who don't understand hyperbole. I don't hide in the basement And I Dont get hassled Everyone does not think the guy with the camera is a bomber, that is absurd With millions of cell phones everyone has a camera Don't understand hyperbole, do you. |
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Post by mlehman on May 21, 2015 22:36:50 GMT -8
SNIP One thing that can not be explained away is how thousands of us at trackside daily taking photos of trains and are never hassled but, few claim to have been harassed by the local or railroad cops. A security officer authority ends at the property line of the company he is assigned to and as no authority to say anything on public lands-this includes sidewalks on a public street in front of the business. Then how about the two new rail parks built for railfans? Anybody care to explain those away? There may be a third one in the planning stage. Then you have video companies like Pentrex,Green Frog,Highball Productions and others like companies that shots videos on a daily bases. I'm not buying every song of railfan woe that is sung on the internet since we have one side of the story.The biggest question I have is what really took place? Larry, I don't have any particular reason to doubt that people run into this issue. I've enough kin in law enforcement and have been a longtime radio monitor. For every call where a railfan might get hassled, there's probably one or two more where someone just did a drive-by and, seeing nothing amiss, didn't bother stopping and closed out the call. However, there are plenty of stories in the press about photographers being hassled, although thankfully not as bad as a decade ago. And if the president of Amtrak goes to the trouble of bringing his police chief on a public relations jaunt just to make a point that Amtrak will NOT be like that to railfans, I suspect it says something to the effect that other lines are, well, not quite so concerned about certain aspects of our liberties. All that aside, there is probably no industry with as much exposure to the public and generally with their own police force (yep, RR police have arrest authority just like any other cop, they aren't just "security personnel") as railroads. There will be conflicts and I'd agree with you most most are resolved without further incident. I even know the former police chief for the Illinois Terminal, Dale Jenkins, and he's a big railfan, even wrote a major book about the IT and is a longtime officer of the historical society. I rather doubt he hassled anyone for taking pics ever, but I'm fairly certain he had to ask a few people to leave the property. On both sides of this are people and people vary widely. Don't count on your own experience as being definitive, though. Now as far as that keeping anybody home, I think that is a bit of a cop-out [bad pun, but it is what it is  ]. No one is getting 20 years in the gulag for taking pics of trains in the USA. I'm not a big railfan in terms of spending trackside time taking pics, but I'm pretty sure I can handle an official inquiry about what I was up to if it came to that, so I agree with you there. Don't stay home because of that, although it's not nearly as silly a worry as the belief someone toting a camera near the RR tracks is a a scout for al Qaeda's next attack. |
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Post by jamesbrodie67281 on May 21, 2015 23:51:54 GMT -8
Unless the train is OMO One man operated the guard/conductor is in charge. Once the wheels start turning then the driver/engineer is in 'control'
There is nothing wrong with the word 'play' We cab 'play' darts-cricket-football-rounders-netball-when fishing you 'play' the fish-cards-scrabble-go to the theatre to see a 'play' and so on ad finitum ad nauseaum etc. I would say an enthusiastic railroad man is a good railroad man. he is conscientious about his job .No one needs to be looking over his shoulder to see he does the job properly BUT this is an Atlas model railway forum. I would have preferred these last four pages to have been devoted to model building , model running, helpful model hints, wish lists etc and let the gist of what has been said be done on a debating/discussion forum.
Enthusiastic railwayman and railway modeller James Brodie.
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Post by Brakie on May 22, 2015 1:15:12 GMT -8
Mike,Heres something most people that post all those "cop in the bushes waiting to pounce" doesn't tell..They may have argued the point with LEO and that's never a good idea since you are bound to lose but,there are railfans that think they own the railroad..If railfans really paid attention the trespassing track walkers,the taggers etc is seldom hassle by LEO yet you get those that are scared to railfan because they might be harassed by LEO or the RR cops.
Then comes the "me too" post that may or may not be true.Yet nobody explains why thousands railfan every day and not get harassed.Of course we already know there's not enough LEO on duty to handle routine police matters.
Now there's been several railfan parks built over the last decade and the reason is simple if 20,000 railfans a year descend on a city to watch trains that represents a lot of cash being spent for food, gas and maybe lodging and why not make that money-ah,railfans welcome?
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Post by peoriaman on May 22, 2015 3:39:50 GMT -8
Now there's been several railfan parks built over the last decade and the reason is simple if 20,000 railfans a year descend on a city to watch trains that represents a lot of cash being spent for food, gas and maybe lodging and why not make that money-ah,railfans welcome? Its cute that you guys keep mentioning railfan parks, but remember, those places are not where anyone is going to get hassled. Forget Fostoria, forget Deshler.... Go a few miles west and hang out by the GM Powertrain facility in Defiance where the CSX lead crosses the state highway and see how long before either a rent-a-cop or a real police officer comes to give you the third degree. Poor example? Maybe. But it IS public property. And if your layout has a giant engine foundry on it, you might want some pics. |
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Post by peoriaman on May 22, 2015 4:52:12 GMT -8
Anyway.... What was this thread about? Seems so long ago.
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Post by atsfan on May 22, 2015 5:29:53 GMT -8
Now there's been several railfan parks built over the last decade and the reason is simple if 20,000 railfans a year descend on a city to watch trains that represents a lot of cash being spent for food, gas and maybe lodging and why not make that money-ah,railfans welcome? Its cute that you guys keep mentioning railfan parks, but remember, those places are not where anyone is going to get hassled. Forget Fostoria, forget Deshler.... Go a few miles west and hang out by the GM Powertrain facility in Defiance where the CSX lead crosses the state highway and see how long before either a rent-a-cop or a real police officer comes to give you the third degree. Poor example? Maybe. But it IS public property. And if your layout has a giant engine foundry on it, you might want some pics. you cite one spot in 100. Miles I have been on that entire stretch and had fun and no issues or problems |
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Post by atsfan on May 22, 2015 5:30:49 GMT -8
Unless the train is OMO One man operated the guard/conductor is in charge. Once the wheels start turning then the driver/engineer is in 'control' There is nothing wrong with the word 'play' We cab 'play' darts-cricket-football-rounders-netball-when fishing you 'play' the fish-cards-scrabble-go to the theatre to see a 'play' and so on ad finitum ad nauseaum etc. I would say an enthusiastic railroad man is a good railroad man. he is conscientious about his job .No one needs to be looking over his shoulder to see he does the job properly BUT this is an Atlas model railway forum. I would have preferred these last four pages to have been devoted to model building , model running, helpful model hints, wish lists etc and let the gist of what has been said be done on a debating/discussion forum. Enthusiastic railwayman and railway modeller James Brodie. It is the crew lounge. |
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Post by atsfan on May 22, 2015 5:31:58 GMT -8
I don't hide in the basement And I Dont get hassled Everyone does not think the guy with the camera is a bomber, that is absurd With millions of cell phones everyone has a camera Don't understand hyperbole, do you. Everyone does Always |
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Post by peoriaman on May 22, 2015 6:47:26 GMT -8
you cite one spot in 100. Miles. [/quote] Yes, thanks, I wanted to be as specific as possible. |
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Post by mlehman on May 22, 2015 7:55:24 GMT -8
Anyway.... What was this thread about? Seems so long ago. We're still somewhat on track. It's about why so many people automatically assume railfans and model railroaders are mostly juvenile, immature people who can't be entrusted with responsibility simply because their hobby makes them unfit for adult activities. So we're really talking about misperceptions here. The fact that some train enthusiasts, just like some people in any walk of life, are less than conscientious in their behavior is sort of besides the point. If you do stupid stuff, you deserve to be called on it. On the other hand, what I wanted to focus on is why that should be laid on all of us when that's not the case for those engaged as hobbyiests in other realms. In essence, even in terms of stereotypes, which are superficial and inaccurate for the most part anyway, why are the stereotypes of railfans and model railroaders so egregiously off-target most of the time? I will say this as far as the discussion of behavior around the tracks...We know some people do stupid things. We might want to question our own propensity to want to bring up those examples and repeat them so often, when we know doing so misrepresents what most of us are like. That's one of the big reasons why I've supported the Model Citizens project. A documentary is no panacea for such a widespread and fundamentally misguided stereotype, but it's a start. I've seen several good ideas about ways to address that mentioned in this thread, but it would be good to have even more. No point in adding to the negative energy that is already out there. We would more productively focus on positive things as a general rule. |
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Post by WP 257 on May 22, 2015 9:55:32 GMT -8
Well, I have tried to be the "good citizen" railfan. Specifically, I contacted Delaware-Lackawanna directly to ask for permission to take some photographs, then I was privately contacted by one member of their railroad who actually is a railfan, who basically explained they absolutely will not give out any information to railfans, due to post 9/11 security concerns, and that there was absolutely no way the railroad would grant permission to me to railfan on the property anywhere at any time.
Now, I know that Bowser has been afforded the opportunity to climb over and measure some of their Alcos (Or was that only on WNY&P?) and of course others have shot video of the D-L.
So there's the "official company position" they tell the "average joe", and then there's the special access afforded some other special people. Is my experience somehow invalid or untrue because others have been allowed to shoot video, etc.?
One railroad, two stories. Could be that way on many other railroads, idk?
I was told don't even think about photographing anything from within D-L right-of-way, don't set foot anywhere near their Tower in Scranton, etc. unless I wanted to risk legal prosecution. Again--I contacted them nicely in the effort to gain permission.
Reading & Northern: Completely different story. If you contact them, make an appointment, show up at the yard office, sign-in to their guest book, and follow their rules, they have no issue with railfans walking around the yard and taking pictures and will even tell you when the trains are coming and where they are currently at (both of which D-L will not tell anyone). If you don't follow their rules, they will have a record of who you are, and you won't be allowed back--but they are absolutely fantastic to deal with. My one friend has been there many times to photograph their engines, etc.
John
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Post by Spikre on May 22, 2015 10:14:44 GMT -8
 John, when dealing with D-L try to get in touch with Dave MonteVerde, he is supposed to run that show. with WNY&P try to contact Bill Burt,again the main guy over there. personally think You will have better luck with Mr Bill,but You may catch Dave in a good mood. the experiances here with them are from ELHS Meets,so it isn't from that recent experiances on their properties. Spikre 
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Post by mlehman on May 22, 2015 11:25:02 GMT -8
Well, I have tried to be the "good citizen" railfan. Specifically, I contacted Delaware-Lackawanna directly to ask for permission to take some photographs... Now, I know that Bowser has been afforded the opportunity to climb over and measure some of their Alcos (Or was that only on WNY&P?) and of course others have shot video of the D-L. So there's the "official company position" they tell the "average joe", and then there's the special access afforded some other special people. Is my experience somehow invalid or untrue because others have been allowed to shoot video, etc.? SNIP Reading & Northern: Completely different story. If you contact them, make an appointment, show up at the yard office, sign-in to their guest book, and follow their rules, they have no issue with railfans walking around the yard and taking pictures and will even tell you when the trains are coming and where they are currently at SNIP John John, All I can say is that it's private property and those making the decisions have come to different conclusions depending on how they view things. It may come down to something so basic as having different lawyers, who can give you vastly differing opinions about the same set of facts. That's not to say it's all the lawyers' fault, just that there are lots or reasons, good and bad, to account for things. If i were you, I'd be very appreciative about the R&N policy and simply respect D-L's, settling for what you can get from public property. Who knows, that may be close enough that you are still able to strike up a positive relationship with an employee -- simply by treating their property with that respect -- and things might change? Part of this may just be driven by the fact that D-L simply has nothing they know you by. Giving someone permission to be on the property is effectively extending the liability exposure they have. If you got hurt, you'd have substantially more legal standing to sue them because of that grant of access. Maybe you can never imagine that happening, but I'm pretty sure their attorneys can. Which brings us to Bowser. Hard to say what previous relationship D-L has with them. It may be there's a personal friendship involved. It may be that D-L sees this as something of more value to them than you seeing it strictly as railfanning, maybe as a marketing opportunity. or it could be that Bowser simply paid D-L for access and it comes down to a business decision. Whatever it is, Bowser's access seems very focused. They want data for a model from a specific piece that's on the property. You, on the other hand, want permission to basically roam at will. While your purpose may seem defined to you, taking pics, they likely see it as a far more open-ended risk than you do. If someone showed up at your house and asked permission to take some pics in your fenced-in back yard, you would probably find that odd, even if it was justified by something like "I'm a nature photographer and I know x-sort of rare bird is nesting back there I want to photograph." You might or might not grant permission and I can see it going either way. A .500 batting average would be phenomenal in baseball. I'd say look at the bright side here, not what you feel is unfair. |
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Post by atsfan on May 22, 2015 12:25:07 GMT -8
Not long ago, I was out trackside. Public road. Safe parking. Grade Crossing.
Up drives a guy who parks way too close to the tracks. Starts loudly spouting off on all the rare
thing he has seen. Then, stands in the middle of the two tracks at the crossing to shoot a zoom shot of a train. Thankfully nothing came the other way.
I suggested he move his car and he did. But after he did the stunt in the tracks, I left for saner pastures.
Lots of nuts out there sadly. Moving on helps me not get hassled.
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Post by Brakie on May 22, 2015 14:33:40 GMT -8
Now there's been several railfan parks built over the last decade and the reason is simple if 20,000 railfans a year descend on a city to watch trains that represents a lot of cash being spent for food, gas and maybe lodging and why not make that money-ah,railfans welcome? Its cute that you guys keep mentioning railfan parks, but remember, those places are not where anyone is going to get hassled. Forget Fostoria, forget Deshler.... Go a few miles west and hang out by the GM Powertrain facility in Defiance where the CSX lead crosses the state highway and see how long before either a rent-a-cop or a real police officer comes to give you the third degree. Poor example? Maybe. But it IS public property. And if your layout has a giant engine foundry on it, you might want some pics. What's cuter is the way you seem to forget the thousands that railfan in other areas then rail parks..I just spent 6 hours railfaning Attica Jct..No LEO,no Homeland Security,no men in black,no CSX or NS Police nor KGB was to be seen..3 of us railfans enjoyed the day watching CSX and NS. Attia Jct railfan area is owned by CSX and yet several hundred visit this spot every year.. |
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Post by atsfan on May 22, 2015 14:58:34 GMT -8
Its cute that you guys keep mentioning railfan parks, but remember, those places are not where anyone is going to get hassled. Forget Fostoria, forget Deshler.... Go a few miles west and hang out by the GM Powertrain facility in Defiance where the CSX lead crosses the state highway and see how long before either a rent-a-cop or a real police officer comes to give you the third degree. Poor example? Maybe. But it IS public property. And if your layout has a giant engine foundry on it, you might want some pics. What's cuter is the way you seem to forget the thousands that railfan in other areas then rail parks..I just spent 6 hours railfaning Attica Jct..No LEO,no Homeland Security,no men in black,no CSX or NS Police nor KGB was to be seen..3 of us railfans enjoyed the day watching CSX and NS. Attia Jct railfan area is owned by CSX and yet several hundred visit this spot every year.. You just have had double layers of tin foil on. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 16:47:15 GMT -8
I'm not making any medical diagnoses. I'm describing why railroads have issues with behaviors that are frequently associated with railfans. Are you more interested in the way railroads work, or the way you would like them to work? If you don't like what I post, ban me or delete my posts and further increase the forum's railfan-to-railroader ratio, because I will keep posting what I know. Your choice.
Omaha, I am not going to ban you because of your views. I will say however, that I was a Union Pacific engineer, who was/is also a railfan and modeler, and many people at work knew it! I got great access to all types of equipment! In fact, many railroaders that I worked with were also avid rail enthusiasts and modelers including a few managers! So, it is my opinion that prognosis is merely a strongly held opinion rather than fact, especially if you, as a manager, based your decision to hire or fire an employee on it. You cannot correlate someone being a railfan and its affect on their performance as a railroad employee. It's no different than commercial or military pilots that actually love flying or are aircraft enthusiasts, or truck drivers that build model trucks, or professional race car drivers that love all things automotive...
Donnell Donnell, I did state twice that a majority of railfans do not exhibit the OCD / Asperger's-like behavior. Let me clarify. It is a small percentage, but I'd say it's at still at least triple the percent present in the general population. It's no secret that Asperger's & Autism have some connection with railroading. Just Google "aspergers + railroad". There are many times more links than Aspergers + trucks, etc. Or "autism model trains" Tons of links. Why? I don't know, but it's out there. So I disagree, there is a reason railfans and model railroaders have a oddball "stereotype" more so than car, truck or aircraft fans & modelers. (No one takes a first date to a model railroad swap meet). I also wrote that, from experience of the rail-related places I've worked at, from 10 to 30 percent of the employees were railfans of some degree- and they were in general better-than-average workers because they gave extra effort and were often more knowledgeable about multiple facets of the business. But they weren't the OCD / Asperger's type- they either never got hired or they wash out quickly. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 17:02:29 GMT -8
I don't do much railfanning, and very little since 1985 or so. I've only had one run-in with the law. I was driving on US 160 in northern Arizona about 20 years ago and came across a Black Mesa & Lake Powell coal train parked on a siding. E60C powered, very cool, and I wasn't even looking to railfan. I pulled off the highway (legally) and started getting ready to shoot the power which was about 300 feet away. Within a minute a female Navajo tribal police officer pulls over, gets out, hand on her gun and tells me that if I take a photo she will arrest me. I said I'm on the public right-of-way, and she told me if I didn't drive away right now I'd be arrested. Even though I was on a US highway (paid for and maintained by US citizens), no photos were allowed on the reservation.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 19:30:09 GMT -8
Railroads have become much more restrictive when it comes to railfans and trespassing. Long ago, Gary Coleman (Diff'rent Strokes) just walked into the tower where I was working. Everyone was kind of surprised, and I said "what's happening?". He said "that's a different show". lol. He was nice but a little nosy, he even opened up our fridge. He stayed about 15 minutes and we gave him a mini-tour. No problem, kind of cool that a mini-celebrity would drop by. Another time, same tower, a bus load of Scandinavian tourists pulled up. About 25 people get off and walk up the steps to the tower. The driver told us that they were from a cruise ship and were heading for a tour, but the tour got cancelled while they were en route. He knew of the hump yard (railfan bus driver?) so he drove into the yard hoping to entertain the camera-wielding crowd. So we gave them a mini-tour, taking 4 or 5 into the tower at a time, and making sure everyone stayed safe. They may have liked the detour better than the original destination! But today, litigation + irresponsibility + increased vandalism have resulted in railroads having to take a more restrictive stance when it comes to keeping people off the property and away from rolling stock. I worked at PAR Rigby Yard where there was a very active railfan base. Someone would be taking videos at least 2 - 3 days per week. Off property, it was legal. But it was common for people to trespass and post the videos online (a YouTube search will turn up many). But even off-property there was a problem- fans would take telephoto video of crews switching the lead, and crews would complain & worry about being recorded committing rule violations. They didn't like being filmed so close you could see if they were wearing earplugs. I can't blame them. One day they filed a female employee getting on & off equipment, focusing on her, er, body. That, on top of all the other video sent some conductors & engineers over the edge. They wanted to go off-property and kick some butt. We got them calmed down, and the Superintendent joined the Yahoo group and asked them to knock it off. He knew they had the right to video, but would they please stop the close-ups because the crews were angry. The crews hated the videos, the railfans weren't making any friends. To see an example of the kind of railfans railroads do not want to hire or have on Company property, take a read thru this thread started by a Rigby railfan/trespasser. Note the entitlement attitude and how it goes off the rails, hard. No wonder the RR wants little to do with railfans today. www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=74865 |
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Post by WP 257 on May 22, 2015 22:15:12 GMT -8
Mike Lehman--
Lol...I wasn't upset about D-L's policy and I did/do respect it. I only related the story because there were others whose posts imo were basically implying that somehow something a given railfan must have done resulted in their being hassled, when in fact I didn't do anything.
As D-L is a considerable distance from where I live, and I have other priorities, I have no intention of ever going back there to railfan...there aren't many trains anyway, and they often are at night, so I really am not that interested...
I am thankful that Reading and Northern is so good about railfan access.
John
P.S. For my work I've had the Amtrak safety training complete with the scare videos, etc., many times--enough that I could almost recite certain portions of it. I know to always stay at least 25 feet from the end of a line of cars in case slack runs out, etc. Every once in awhile I'm on railroad property for official work purposes...(not the shortlines I mentioned above).
While I have one acquaintence who is one of the idiot railfans, I also know others who have flagged down a train just below Horseshoe to let them know there was a fire...
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Post by Brakie on May 23, 2015 2:55:45 GMT -8
worked at PAR Rigby Yard where there was a very active railfan base. Someone would be taking videos at least 2 - 3 days per week. Off property, it was legal. But it was common for people to trespass and post the videos on line (a YouTube search will turn up many). But even off-property there was a problem- fans would take telephoto video of crews switching the lead, and crews would complain & worry about being recorded committing rule violations. They didn't like being filmed so close you could see if they were wearing earplugs.
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That I will never understand..After I take a photo or a short video of the engine and few cars I stop recording and just watch the action.I never felt the need to film the crew as they work I suspect that's because men with Super 8 cameras use to make me nervous since I wasn't sure if that was some supped up ARF trying to make points or a safety man finding ways to take me out of service..
A word about trespassing be careful accusing anybody of that..Both of my cameras has a 20x zoom and I have several photos of locomotives that looks like I was up close and personal while in fact I was no where that close.
but,super railfans and at least one railroader accused me of trespassing after I posted the photo.
I also told a conductor he had a "peeking tommy" in the bushes watching them.The conductor thanked me.
As far as that truck blocking that car in that link you share all I can say is that a mighty fine way to get a bullet in their midsection. A lot of people have C&C permits and not afraid to shoot.
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Railroads have become much more restrictive when it comes to railfans and trespassing
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That old railroaders song and dance routine is as old as I am.I even used it myself when I worked the rails. Railroads can't keep track walkers, thieves or graffiti vandals away so what makes you think they can stop railfans? Even LEO can't stop the walkers,thieves or graffiti vandals.They don't have enough man power or the time due to other pressing police matters..
That's why I don't believe every internet railfan "harassment" story.
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Post by atsfan on May 23, 2015 5:31:47 GMT -8
I don't do much railfanning, and very little since 1985 or so. I've only had one run-in with the law. I was driving on US 160 in northern Arizona about 20 years ago and came across a Black Mesa & Lake Powell coal train parked on a siding. E60C powered, very cool, and I wasn't even looking to railfan. I pulled off the highway (legally) and started getting ready to shoot the power which was about 300 feet away. Within a minute a female Navajo tribal police officer pulls over, gets out, hand on her gun and tells me that if I take a photo she will arrest me. I said I'm on the public right-of-way, and she told me if I didn't drive away right now I'd be arrested. Even though I was on a US highway (paid for and maintained by US citizens), no photos were allowed on the reservation. Somewhere I have a dozen pictures of a Black Mesa train I took pictures of. I never saw a cop or gun. |
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Post by atsfan on May 23, 2015 5:33:46 GMT -8
Railroads have become much more restrictive when it comes to railfans and trespassing. Long ago, Gary Coleman (Diff'rent Strokes) just walked into the tower where I was working. Everyone was kind of surprised, and I said "what's happening?". He said "that's a different show". lol. He was nice but a little nosy, he even opened up our fridge. He stayed about 15 minutes and we gave him a mini-tour. No problem, kind of cool that a mini-celebrity would drop by. Another time, same tower, a bus load of Scandinavian tourists pulled up. About 25 people get off and walk up the steps to the tower. The driver told us that they were from a cruise ship and were heading for a tour, but the tour got cancelled while they were en route. He knew of the hump yard (railfan bus driver?) so he drove into the yard hoping to entertain the camera-wielding crowd. So we gave them a mini-tour, taking 4 or 5 into the tower at a time, and making sure everyone stayed safe. They may have liked the detour better than the original destination! But today, litigation + irresponsibility + increased vandalism have resulted in railroads having to take a more restrictive stance when it comes to keeping people off the property and away from rolling stock. I worked at PAR Rigby Yard where there was a very active railfan base. Someone would be taking videos at least 2 - 3 days per week. Off property, it was legal. But it was common for people to trespass and post the videos online (a YouTube search will turn up many). But even off-property there was a problem- fans would take telephoto video of crews switching the lead, and crews would complain & worry about being recorded committing rule violations. They didn't like being filmed so close you could see if they were wearing earplugs. I can't blame them. One day they filed a female employee getting on & off equipment, focusing on her, er, body. That, on top of all the other video sent some conductors & engineers over the edge. They wanted to go off-property and kick some butt. We got them calmed down, and the Superintendent joined the Yahoo group and asked them to knock it off. He knew they had the right to video, but would they please stop the close-ups because the crews were angry. The crews hated the videos, the railfans weren't making any friends. To see an example of the kind of railfans railroads do not want to hire or have on Company property, take a read thru this thread started by a Rigby railfan/trespasser. Note the entitlement attitude and how it goes off the rails, hard. No wonder the RR wants little to do with railfans today. www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=74865For all of this talk about railroads cracking down there is a massive increase in graffiti on all of their property. Some obviously painted with ladders for hours. So I laugh when I read it. |
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]. No one is getting 20 years in the gulag for taking pics of trains in the USA. I'm not a big railfan in terms of spending trackside time taking pics, but I'm pretty sure I can handle an official inquiry about what I was up to if it came to that, so I agree with you there. Don't stay home because of that, although it's not nearly as silly a worry as the belief someone toting a camera near the RR tracks is a a scout for al Qaeda's next attack.
