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Post by WP 257 on Oct 15, 2015 19:01:09 GMT -8
atsfan--
Until very recent years there has been such a lack of Canadian models on the market that when something is actually offered, the sales numbers of Canadian prototypes have been very good. The Canadian modelers simply buy.
My friends at Bowser will not share actual sales numbers, but the C630M's (Canadian-built MLW versions of Alco's C-630 with different trucks, pilots, and aftercoolers) were outselling American counterparts by "better than 2 to 1" at one point.
The GMD SD40-2 will very likely be Bowser's best selling locomotive to date.
Meanwhile, they have a junk box full of Seaboard Coast Line C430 parts. They just didn't sell, and when they need parts for a customer, they just go to the warehouse shelves and pull yet another SCL C430 off the shelf to strip the parts. I saw the junk box myself.
I think Jason has been very smart with the models he has chosen to produce, and I really want one of the Rapido 2-8-0's...just not sure which one right now.
John
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Post by rapidobill on Oct 15, 2015 22:33:03 GMT -8
Greetings from China!
I'm over here for about 10 days to work on the UK APT-E, Stirling Single, New Haven 8600 coaches, CP FP9, N Osgood Bradley cars and... oh yes... steam. I know, all "feren stuff" (for somebody at least), and all "Old stuff" that nobody would have an interest in. Oh, and did I mention all selling VERY well? ;>)
A few comments on our steam loco project. As a New Englander for at least the recent half of my life I find it hard to think of Canadian steam as quite that foreign given it's regular operation into New England. Also, as has been pointed out, there are numerous Canadian steam locos that have been preserved and still operate throughout the country. Still, I guess if you're in Texas....
The brief for this project is quite simple. Make them run and pull well and be accurately detailed. The discussion that another company was not able to pull this off quite as planned has NO bearing on how ours will look or run. We will (as always) be quite open with the development process as this project moves ahead.
Marty - That WOULD be neat.......
Tom - Nukler wessles......
Bill "Ensign Chekov" Schneider Rapido Trains
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Post by rapidotrains on Oct 16, 2015 6:09:00 GMT -8
Wow... Don't check in for a few days and we're suddenly on page seven of this thread! In terms of Canadian sales, what we're seeing is that Canadian modellers are willing to spend money on models that have never been produced before. But because our economy is in the toilet, Canadians are being much more picky with their wallets. We have a real challenge convincing them to dump their toy-like RDC models from 15 years ago to buy our super-detailed ones. That's why we will be taking the RDCs on a tour of Canadian hobby shops. Similarly, if we were to bring out another run of CN coaches tomorrow, we'd be sitting on them for a long time. I can't comment on Bowser's sales, but from what I understand our production numbers for a given Canadian locomotive model are about half what the numbers would be for an equivalent American model. Our handicap is that we don't have an extensive back catalogue, so we can't produce a bunch of reruns to go alongside our new runs. (Note the "UE" in catalogue - we are "foreigners" who make "foreign" stuff, as has been clearly pointed out... ) So that means we're still a very small company in comparison to our competitors who have been around for 20, 30 or 70 years. The upside of that is our overheads are lower, so we can make a bit of a profit on much lower sales volume. (Though the recent shellacking of the Canadian dollar has reduced that "small" profit to a "very small" profit.) As for the projected release schedule, you can bet that it will shift over time. We may run into a tooling issue with one class of steam engine and then have to bring out a different one first. We may have a delay with one engine, pushing delivery into the following year, and then end up with one engine in one year and three engines the next. Our factory may burn down, causing a two-year delay on everything (God forbid). The schedule is a target we will try to keep, but we will never rush a locomotive out of the factory to meet a promised delivery date. That is the road to disaster. The Royal Hudson is our test bed. After we get the first working samples (in 7-10 months most likely), we will tweak and adjust the tooling as much as we need to in order for the locomotive to meet our standards. If it doesn't run or pull reliably, we keep modifying/adjusting it until it does. The D10 will be more of a design challenge in terms of managing the detail variations, but mechanically it is actually a lot easier. One funny thing that someone on another forum mentioned is that they would pre-judge the pulling power of the Royal Hudson based on our British "Stirling Single" steam locomotive. That's the really tiny Victorian engine with with ONE pair of drivers.... Now that's an accurate comparison! Best regards, Jason
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Post by jonklein611 on Oct 16, 2015 7:30:24 GMT -8
Jason, here's what happens when you don't check in for a few days:
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Post by mlehman on Oct 16, 2015 8:15:52 GMT -8
In a staged recreation of where things often stand around here: Big Al shows up with free pizza, but no one told him to bring the fire truck... I'm sure he'll figure something out. Yeah, Jason, this is that kind of joint. But I think the reaction is pretty darn positive here, despite a few chronic cynics. But you're not building these for them, but for all those like the majority here who will really appreciate the value of these locos to the modeler. Let's just hope no fire (or explosion, they have those, too, in China) is involved, things get ugly really fast...YIKES!
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Post by espeenut on Oct 16, 2015 9:18:40 GMT -8
I agree with you Mike, you get to know what kind of reaction to expect from certain folks if a new release doesn't fit within their spectrum of the hobby, or if it doesn't meet their personal criteria of "what is needed"... ...interestingly, I live in Canada but model predominantly Pacific Northwestern US roads, which I will not refer to as "foreign" as I've lived on both sides of the border and the rails cross the border in many locations, plus there is so little difference between the two countries that if I dropped you into a Canadian town the only way you'd know you were somewhere 'different' would be if you looked at the money in your pocket. So, these new releases won't necessarily fill any of my immediate wants or needs, oh drat...! But I do like good models of steam engines and have personally witnessed 2860 in action along with 4449, both UP heritage steamers, and ridden behind so many others that I won't even try to list them. At the same time I am just as fascinated by anything from early geeps and F units to the latest monsters from GE and EMD, so I think some of us need to stop whining whenever a new release doesn't quite fit our agenda...
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Post by WP 257 on Oct 16, 2015 9:49:14 GMT -8
Yes, agreed completely.
I need a WP 4-6-0 (there are PFM ones with open gearbox that might or might not need lots of TLC to run well, and won't have lights, etc.).
I need a WP 2-8-0 (nicer but very rare Sunset/Korean model--only 100 made and not cheap even unpainted).
But I'm perfectly willing to accept a beautiful, accurate Canadian steamer in any case, since the suggested price Jason is showing is most likely less than what it would take me to get a nice brass WP steamer and pay someone else to upgrade, professionally paint, and light--if I can even find a good one (there have been plenty of years for them to be mishandled/beat up, etc.).
Sometimes a new product comes along that creates its own market by filling an unfilled niche (I know, see a couple pages back, and I'm just repeating...).
There's still a market for modestly sized good steam.
John
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Post by mlehman on Oct 16, 2015 11:28:35 GMT -8
Lorne and John, Those are both healthy reactions if these locos don't obviously fit your current plans. One good reason why is that this is a pay it forward sort of hobby. Things that don't directly benefit you now may end up doing so later down the line in unexpected ways. At the risk of repeating myself, too, I noted how the spin-off effects of people building layouts inspired by these locos is good across the hobby, not just for Rapido.
It's also the case that exploring territory that doesn't seem immediately and obviously profitable is where this hobby is going. How many new F units are there in the last year or so? Thankfully none I can think of with the exception of the Rapido FL9. Obviously won't sell the same number as all those other F units, but who needs more of that? It's the specialized versions that people haven't found yet that get things excited. And it's that sort of enthusiasm that grows the hobby.
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Post by Spikre on Oct 16, 2015 11:32:31 GMT -8
Lorne, drop someone into Montreal and they'll know they are in a foreign Country or maybe Louisiana . been there, know that !! Spikre
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Post by rapidotrains on Oct 16, 2015 12:39:24 GMT -8
plus there is so little difference between the two countries that if I dropped you into a Canadian town the only way you'd know you were somewhere 'different' would be if you looked at the money in your pocket. The most noticeable visual difference for me when I go to the States is the bridges. In the northeastern USA, there are a lot of green steel bridges. In contrast, Canada has a concrete fixation. And if there are steel girders visible, they are rarely green. Seeing the green-painted bridges was always a sign for me that we were not in Canada any more. When you talk to people there are lots of minor differences. We use some different terms (cutlery vs. silverware, kilometres or miles), and nobody in Canada says "um-hm" for "you're welcome." That's a really noticeable "Americanism" to Canadians visiting the United States. But as you can see, these are very small things. Americans and Canadians share a lot of the same culture and values. Despite the fact that we Canadians tend to apologize for everything, I actually find Americans, as a whole, to be friendlier. -Jason
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Oct 16, 2015 14:18:21 GMT -8
and nobody in Canada says "um-hm" for "you're welcome." -Jason Even worse is the ubiqitous "No problem...." in response to a Thank you....
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 16, 2015 14:54:58 GMT -8
Karl,
I have no problem with your comment.
Ed
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Post by kcjones on Oct 16, 2015 14:59:14 GMT -8
Jason, You're a Foreigner!! When I met you in Portland, I thought you were from Na'lins Louisiana. Didn't sound like no Canadian to me. Must have been that French accent.
Bring on the Royals!!!
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Post by atsfan on Oct 16, 2015 17:42:31 GMT -8
I dont think it is a big surprise that SCL Alco 430s did not sell well. Talk a out a small niche market to go after.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2015 18:49:11 GMT -8
I just skimmed through the thread, but I'd like to address a couple things and give my 2 cents. I think Canadian models sell so well is because CN and even CP ran through the upper US. I remember as a kid in Michigan seeing CN run through my city and trade freight cars with BNSF and CSX. Heck even now I sometimes see CN locos, although it's much rarer of a sight than it use to be. So a person who doesn't model a Canadian Prototypical railraid can still run Canadian locos and freight as a "just passing through" type of deal. Which means you have both Canadian and even US buyers who don't model Canadian prototypes.
I think Rapido's steam engines will be a success. Canadian steam ran through the 90s and probably still does to this day. Their steam engines are iconic in their railroad history. I remember watching a documentary on their royal train that carried the Queen of England if I'm not mistaken. Some would say people are tired of steam locos, as steam locos have been mass produced since the 1950s. However, I don't think people are tired of steam, but rather tired of inaccurate models or steam locos that are highly lacking. Many companies just pump out generic steam locos and most of them require a ton of detailing and modification. Because these steam locos Rapido are producing are detailed and prototypically correct for the the railroad they are making them after, I believe they will sell well.
As for the hobby dying, the hobby isn't dying. It's just most of the young people in their teens and early 20s don't use forum boards. They are either on social media, or they just keep the hobby to themselves. A lot of young people don't want to argue about what's better than what, or hear the complaining about "prices too high". Nor do they want to deal with the drama of people who want to bash the hobby. So they tend to either keep to themselves or make exclusive groups on social media sites. Forums are a thing of the past for the newer generations.
So yeah, that's my 2cents. Also, I'm hyped for the FPA-2s.
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Post by chessie77 on Oct 16, 2015 19:38:56 GMT -8
I would like to eventually have a model of the 2839 in Southern paint. I road behind if from Lexington to Ashland KY. in the early 1980s. My goal is to have a model of every steam locomotive that I have ridden behind. So far I have only the Chessie Steam Special 2101. But I'd like to have NKP #765, C&O #2716 (in Southern paint also), C&O #614( Chessie Safety Express), N&W #611 and #1218, and PM #1225. I haven't been able to get them yet as I haven't had the finances.
As for the lamenting the Bowser SCL C430s, I missed the undecorated and bought 2 of the SCLs. I'd like 2 more of them (I know they only had 3, I plan on repainting them) and 2 of the RDG C430s. When I got back into modeling, I decided to go with DCC and sound, but that limits what I can afford. There are probably others who would have liked to have bought more C430, but their finances stopped them.
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Post by WP 257 on Oct 16, 2015 20:36:23 GMT -8
Jason--
I've had the pleasure of waiting on plenty of Canadians when I once upon a time worked at English's Model RR Supply in Pa (many come from north of the border to shop there), and I marched competitive drum and bugle corps, as well, with several Canadians. Always thought they were the nicest people.
In my case, I already have a layout built and mostly complete with scenery. I love big articulateds, but don't have the curves for the largest brass ones. So the proposed modestly sized steam engines will fill a void. Many of the modestly sized engines readily available, though perhaps a lot of fun to play with, could be more accurate and thus more visually appealing.
I'm sure Rapido's will set a new standard. I'm not all about the streamlined ones, but I can't wait to see the 4-6-0's and 2-8-0's.
John
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Post by curtmc on Oct 17, 2015 5:52:13 GMT -8
Jason, Here's to hoping your sales are better than the Walthers Metroliners... (and in such you don't have to resort to selling them at half price, although at that discount I'd be interested in one BC Rail version Royal Hudson)
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Post by atsfan on Oct 17, 2015 7:05:49 GMT -8
I just skimmed through the thread, but I'd like to address a couple things and give my 2 cents. I think Canadian models sell so well is because CN and even CP ran through the upper US. I remember as a kid in Michigan seeing CN run through my city and trade freight cars with BNSF and CSX. Heck even now I sometimes see CN locos, although it's much rarer of a sight than it use to be. So a person who doesn't model a Canadian Prototypical railraid can still run Canadian locos and freight as a "just passing through" type of deal. Which means you have both Canadian and even US buyers who don't model Canadian prototypes. I think Rapido's steam engines will be a success. Canadian steam ran through the 90s and probably still does to this day. Their steam engines are iconic in their railroad history. I remember watching a documentary on their royal train that carried the Queen of England if I'm not mistaken. Some would say people are tired of steam locos, as steam locos have been mass produced since the 1950s. However, I don't think people are tired of steam, but rather tired of inaccurate models or steam locos that are highly lacking. Many companies just pump out generic steam locos and most of them require a ton of detailing and modification. Because these steam locos Rapido are producing are detailed and prototypically correct for the the railroad they are making them after, I believe they will sell well. As for the hobby dying, the hobby isn't dying. It's just most of the young people in their teens and early 20s don't use forum boards. They are either on social media, or they just keep the hobby to themselves. A lot of young people don't want to argue about what's better than what, or hear the complaining about "prices too high". Nor do they want to deal with the drama of people who want to bash the hobby. So they tend to either keep to themselves or make exclusive groups on social media sites. Forums are a thing of the past for the newer generations. So yeah, that's my 2cents. Also, I'm hyped for the FPA-2s. Nobody has said here the hobby is dying. The notion hat young people who deal with social media would find anything here even close to worse than that is far from reality.
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Post by Christian on Oct 17, 2015 9:49:00 GMT -8
A lot of young people don't want to argue about what's better than what, or hear the complaining about "prices too high". Nor do they want to deal with the drama of people who want to bash the hobby. The notion that young people who deal with social media would find anything here even close to worse than that is far from reality. It's a bit odd to read about social media being a happy little place. Social media is notorious for wild and woolly postings as well as a lot of unacceptable behavior.
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Post by mlehman on Oct 17, 2015 11:16:19 GMT -8
Generally true.
But as was mentioned, it can also be a place where only those with an invite show up...and those annoying, nothing but the same ol' heard-all-too-often song-and-dance folks don't get the invite.
All depends on the app and the intentions of those using it.
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wsor
Full Member
The Route of the Ruptured Duck
Posts: 131
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Post by wsor on Oct 18, 2015 18:54:59 GMT -8
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Post by GP40P-2 on Oct 20, 2015 14:36:47 GMT -8
Assuming that the economy doesn't tank, that I am still employed at the time, or not 50%+ underwater in the Arizona real estate market, I could see going for the BCR version of the Royal Hudson. Of course Jason will have to promise to make the BC Rail passenger cars again so that I have a nice excursion train for it.
Jim
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Oct 28, 2015 18:44:40 GMT -8
Jason, Here's to hoping your sales are better than the Walthers Metroliners... (and in such you don't have to resort to selling them at half price, although at that discount I'd be interested in one) The Limited Edition Metroliner sets are now on sale at half price: www.walthers.com/exec/search?manu=5&keywords=metroliner
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Post by curtmc on Oct 28, 2015 19:08:42 GMT -8
Yes, Ferro Kid... That's why I made the comment. To clarify, at half price I'd be interested in a Rapido BC Rail Royal Hudson. I wouldn't pay $50 for a Walthers Metroliner.
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Oct 28, 2015 19:33:46 GMT -8
Yes, Ferro Kid... That's why I made the comment. To clarify, at half price I'd be interested in a Rapido BC Rail Royal Hudson. I wouldn't pay $50 for a Walthers Metroliner. OK, I see. Apparently the half-price Metroliner sale started before I first heard of it from a Walthers promotional e-mail I received today.
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Post by GP40P-2 on Oct 28, 2015 20:44:39 GMT -8
[quote author=" curtmc" source="/post/70867/thread" I wouldn't pay $50 for a Walthers Metroliner.[/quote] Just curious why you wouldn't pay $50; because it runs poorly, is wrong in some way, or you just don't need one (nor do I)? Or is it a case of just being very expensive for being a powered passenger car? Jim
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Post by WP 257 on Oct 29, 2015 10:05:27 GMT -8
I'm going to have to chime in here and say that for myself personally, the likelihood of finding a Rapido anything a couple weeks after arrival within the U.S. is less than just about any other manufacturer I can possibly name, and on par with trying to locate a fully reserved brass model ie nearly impossible.
So therefore being able to locate a Royal Hudson at half price would be highly unlikely.
Although I'm personally more interested in the freight 2-8-0 or the 4-6-0, I know the Royal Hudson in its various incarnations will sell.
John
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Post by atsfan on Oct 29, 2015 10:22:23 GMT -8
I'm going to have to chime in here and say that for myself personally, the likelihood of finding a Rapido anything a couple weeks after arrival within the U.S. is less than just about any other manufacturer I can possibly name, and on par with trying to locate a fully reserved brass model ie nearly impossible. So therefore being able to locate a Royal Hudson at half price would be highly unlikely. Although I'm personally more interested in the freight 2-8-0 or the 4-6-0, I know the Royal Hudson in its various incarnations will sell. John www.modeltrainstuff.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=Rapido&Submit=
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Post by curtmc on Oct 29, 2015 21:14:32 GMT -8
I never said it was likely. I meant it was the price range at which I would buy one.
As for the Metroliner, I don't model Amtrak NE Corridor, but I do model profitable (without subsidy) freight railroads... I guess that if I found one cheap enough though I could use it as flat car loads or dead-in-tow on way to the scrapper...
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