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Post by middledivision on Feb 7, 2016 14:18:01 GMT -8
Tell Athearn the Western roads used them and they will bring out a Genesis version the next day!
Being a PRR guy, I would love Genesis Geep 30's and 35's.
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Post by atsfan on Feb 7, 2016 14:19:56 GMT -8
Tell Athearn the Western roads used them and they will bring out a Genesis version the next day! Being a PRR guy, I would love Genesis Geep 30's and 35's. Santa Fe western enough ? |
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Post by mlehman on Feb 7, 2016 19:42:24 GMT -8
I can understand how the slice and dice crowd here could see the value in a fresh slate to work from, but most of the market simply wants a box they can open and - voila! - a new, improved loco. And they seem to be willing to pay for it. That's just it, a new RTR GP35 WOULD be a new and improved loco! Have you compared the new RTR SD40 to the old one? Not. Even. Close. And not much of a price increase over the last run of the Rough Plastic Parts model. It's likely if Athearn tooled up a new RTR GP35 it wouldn't cost much more than the latest run of the old turd. A Genesis would cost considerably more, either with or without sound. Undecs are another issue, in the Genesis line one may not see undes for a long time if at all, whereas Athearn ran them in second run of the new SD40's. Heck, some Genesis models have never been run as undecs, the F's, FP7's, and the GP& come to mind. Yeah, I don't buy diesels like you guys. Last time I bought any RTR, you still didn't get MU hoses, so it's been awhile. I was under the impression they were only freshening the shells on most of these and the added value was in the additional detailing. Problem with the current 35 is that everyone says start from scratch with the shell. If they're doing new shells, too, on current RTR and holding the price on these others and I just haven't been paying that close attention, then why not the 35, too? I agree. I also have the impression from reading the ads that recent pricing has a lot to do with the softness in the overall market and in the Chinese economy, so the "extra value" aspect of things may be short-lived if that's the case, so a 35 next year might still cost less as a RTR than a Genesis, but more than current offerings. In the end, I wouldn't buy more than 2 anyway, so this is not fraught with the images of financial ruin that some have in the difference between RTR and Genesis. |
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Post by riogrande on Feb 8, 2016 4:21:41 GMT -8
Based on the RTR stuff like the tunnel motors, retooled SD40 and now the coming SD39, an all new tooled RTR GP35 with prototype specific details would be very welcome. If Athearn can offer the SD40 at $134.95, why can't they do the same with a retooled GP35 and GP30. Could be a very good trend. Every time I consider the RPP based GP35, I always decide to pass. I have plenty of diesels so I need something done right now to part with money most of the time. I did pass on the high brake cylinder verseion SP SD40R because Athearn happened botch an important detail on that model - side frames.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 5:59:17 GMT -8
Retire it in favor of retooling a new Genesis version for both phase I and Phase II models.
I have no confidence that Walthers will come through with a quality phase II.
Brian
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 6:15:06 GMT -8
I've been using the Kato d/b hatch as a replacement on my Athearn units. The cabs, noses, sub-bases, inertial hatches and filter intakes, exhaust stack, traction motor blower housing, and radiator fans and grilles were all replaced with Cannon parts. Honestly, I would have been better off scratch building the whole long hood from sheet styrene and inserting Cannon doors. The only part to be reused would be the walkway. However, the pilots are way too thick, as are the steps. The process of thinning the pilot would necessitate installing a Cannon small anticlimber and Details West scale buffer. This project is your basic slippery slope.
Donnell
Donnell, that is WAY to much work. WOW, to much work. Best to just start with a Kato  . Brian |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 8, 2016 6:36:33 GMT -8
Retire it in favor of retooling a new Genesis version for both phase I and Phase II models. I have no confidence that Walthers will come through with a quality phase II. Brian Well Walthers can't do any worse than MTH......right? Walthers offerings in the proto line have been tepid at best. The E8/9 is warmed over 1990's tooling with a tummy tuck but still falls short. Walthers now even prints detail parts on some of their offerings. What do they think they are Marx? Why not just carve the locomotives out of tin like Marx. The Proto GP30 is lacking. The step wells on it and the GP7/9/18/20 are messed up. Andy Harman calls the Proto step wells toe breakers. If the prototype were like the Walthers/Life-Like model the crew would break their toes trying to board the locomotives. The SD45 from Walthers seems okay and I can't comment on the correctness of the GP60. The SD7/9's Walthers has been releasing are workable but not of a Genesis/Scale Trains quality. In fact nothing in the Proto line from Walthers could hold a candle to most Genesis or Scale Trains offerings. Walthers is still the only manufacturer of a CORRECT EMD GP9 Phase I and they haven't released those for many years. I've gotten tired of fighting for them on e-Bay for the prices are out of sight. Now before the "good enoughers" start throwing bricks at us "rivet counters" lets remember that the pressure from people for scale-width hood locomotives and better mechanisms is the reason why we are still not banging away on stale old Athearn blue box and other less than stellar offerings. |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 8, 2016 7:12:33 GMT -8
Retire it in favor of retooling a new Genesis version for both phase I and Phase II models. I have no confidence that Walthers will come through with a quality phase II. Brian Well Walthers can't do any worse than MTH......right? Walthers offerings in the proto line have been tepid at best. The E8/9 is warmed over 1990's tooling with a tummy tuck but still falls short. Walthers now even prints detail parts on some of their offerings. What do they think they are Marx? Why not just carve the locomotives out of tin like Marx. The Proto GP30 is lacking. The step wells on it and the GP7/9/18/20 are messed up. Andy Harman calls the Proto step wells toe breakers. If the prototype were like the Walthers/Life-Like model the crew would break their toes trying to board the locomotives. The SD45 from Walthers seems okay and I can't comment on the correctness of the GP60. The SD7/9's Walthers has been releasing are workable but not of a Genesis/Scale Trains quality. In fact nothing in the Proto line from Walthers could hold a candle to most Genesis or Scale Trains offerings. Walthers is still the only manufacturer of a CORRECT EMD GP9 Phase I and they haven't released those for many years. I've gotten tired of fighting for them on e-Bay for the prices are out of sight. Now before the "good enoughers" start throwing bricks at us "rivet counters" lets remember that the pressure from people for scale-width hood locomotives and better mechanisms is the reason why we are still not banging away on stale old Athearn blue box and other less than stellar offerings. All of the above are warmed up Proto Life Like engines. It will be telling to see how Walthers does with an all new Proto engine. Their first I believe ? |
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Post by bdhicks on Feb 8, 2016 7:53:50 GMT -8
I'm a bit surprised that the former RPP locomotives didn't get pushed down to the Roundhouse line when Athearn redefined that as their low-end models.
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Post by mlehman on Feb 8, 2016 8:01:30 GMT -8
I'm a bit surprised that the former RPP locomotives didn't get pushed down to the Roundhouse line when Athearn redefined that as their low-end models. Brian, A few might be old enough, but they seemed at first to stick Roundhouse onto new releases of transition era and prior models. That seems to be changing, but I think the idea now is to phase RPP out as funds become available to redo them. |
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Post by roadkill on Feb 8, 2016 8:06:33 GMT -8
Retire it in favor of retooling a new Genesis version for both phase I and Phase II models. I have no confidence that Walthers will come through with a quality phase II. Brian I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude with the Walthers GP35. Not an extremely important model for me as PC had none but if it's good I'll be in for a couple of EL units. |
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Post by WP 257 on Feb 8, 2016 8:20:51 GMT -8
Look, the legacy Athearn locomotive sales save them cost and ultimately pay for more higher end models that some people crave.
If/when they get around to updating or replacing the GP-35 and other engines, then there will just be more people on forums like this complaining about the price of the updated/replaced model.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 8:32:23 GMT -8
Retire it in favor of retooling a new Genesis version for both phase I and Phase II models. I have no confidence that Walthers will come through with a quality phase II. Brian I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude with the Walthers GP35. Not an extremely important model for me as PC had none but if it's good I'll be in for a couple of EL units. Roger, PC did have phase II 35's. Got them from NYC. Five phase IIb units. NYC number 6150-6154. Renumbered 2394-2398 same for PC. www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc2397aqb.jpgwww.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc2398ary.jpgBrian |
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Post by roadkill on Feb 8, 2016 8:35:03 GMT -8
Dammit... forgot all about those! Guess I'll get an undec if I like them. I thought they did but couldn't find the pics. Duh!
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Post by atsfan on Feb 8, 2016 9:26:31 GMT -8
Look, the legacy Athearn locomotive sales save them cost and ultimately pay for more higher end models that some people crave. If/when they get around to updating or replacing the GP-35 and other engines, then there will just be more people on forums like this complaining about the price of the updated/replaced model. This did not happen with the SD40 so what are you basing the above on for the GP35 ? |
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Post by stottman on Feb 8, 2016 9:50:23 GMT -8
Look, the legacy Athearn locomotive sales save them cost and ultimately pay for more higher end models that some people crave. If/when they get around to updating or replacing the GP-35 and other engines, then there will just be more people on forums like this complaining about the price of the updated/replaced model. This did not happen with the SD40 so what are you basing the above on for the GP35 ? Didn't the original RPP mold crack or become damaged, warranting a replacement? |
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Post by riogrande on Feb 8, 2016 10:01:22 GMT -8
Athearn did report that the RPP SD40 based molds were worn out IIRC. Yes.
I will not be one of them. I am pleased with getting the retooled SD40 for MSRP $134.95 and street price of $99. I think it's a good value personally - what with prototypical details. Sure, it doesn't have Genesis motor or tread plate - but those can be added later if it's important.
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Post by GP40P-2 on Feb 8, 2016 10:14:45 GMT -8
Look, the legacy Athearn locomotive sales save them cost and ultimately pay for more higher end models that some people crave. And this is exactly why Ford should keep producing Pintos, so that they can pay for more higher end Lincoln Navigators that some people crave. Jim |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 8, 2016 10:20:32 GMT -8
This did not happen with the SD40 so what are you basing the above on for the GP35 ? Didn't the original RPP mold crack or become damaged, warranting a replacement? He said people complained here about the SD40 redo. I dont remember that but just the opposite. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 10:46:42 GMT -8
I have not seen any disparaging remarks about the Athearn SD40. I believe it is an EXCELLENT starting point for building a great model of an SD40. My first complaint about the SD40 was the depth of the top step, but then I realized what they modeled. The top step represents both the step and the frame rail. Basically the top step does not have a kick plate. The top of the top step is even with the top of the frame rail. That is fairly typical on the prototype.
If Athearn was to put the GP35 in their RTR line with the same quality as they did on the SD38/39/40, it would be a GREAT model as well.
Brian
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Post by bdhicks on Feb 8, 2016 10:58:32 GMT -8
I'm a bit surprised that the former RPP locomotives didn't get pushed down to the Roundhouse line when Athearn redefined that as their low-end models. Brian, A few might be old enough, but they seemed at first to stick Roundhouse onto new releases of transition era and prior models. That seems to be changing, but I think the idea now is to phase RPP out as funds become available to redo them. Roundhouse used to be the line for their older prototype models, but they recently changed it so that it's now more the toy train stuff. If you look at the Athearn HO products page, the steam has been moved up to RTR and the train sets have been moved to Roundhouse. In fact, I see that their GP60 is a Roundhouse now, and I thought that was former RPP tooling as well. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Feb 8, 2016 11:34:27 GMT -8
Heck, I had a guy perfectly happy to buy an old stock Athearn blue box wide-body GP35 in December. You have all kinds out there, and I think just as many don't care about minor detail issues as those who think it's a big deal.
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Post by mlehman on Feb 8, 2016 11:50:57 GMT -8
Brian, A few might be old enough, but they seemed at first to stick Roundhouse onto new releases of transition era and prior models. That seems to be changing, but I think the idea now is to phase RPP out as funds become available to redo them. Roundhouse used to be the line for their older prototype models, but they recently changed it so that it's now more the toy train stuff. If you look at the Athearn HO products page, the steam has been moved up to RTR and the train sets have been moved to Roundhouse. In fact, I see that their GP60 is a Roundhouse now, and I thought that was former RPP tooling as well. Well, we know train set quality is not gonna make anyone here happy. I really can't see them doing that with the GP35. Despite its faults, the current GP35 still seems to sell well, as they've produced 3(?) runs (maybe more?) so far in the current slap-dash version. Other like Walthers and MTH, etc jumping into the fray. Just the fact that there are so many half-right to 3/4-right versions out there is another one of the reasons that suggest a Genesis implementation to me. I for one would be happy with an improved RTR correcting its major flaws and adding some road-specific detail. Either works for me. Snap track on the floor version doesn't. |
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Post by roadkill on Feb 8, 2016 12:08:42 GMT -8
Look, the legacy Athearn locomotive sales save them cost and ultimately pay for more higher end models that some people crave. And this is exactly why Ford should keep producing Pintos, so that they can pay for more higher end Lincoln Navigators that some people crave. Jim Watch it mister, my first car was a Pinto and I loved that little turd  ! |
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Post by roadkill on Feb 8, 2016 12:10:09 GMT -8
Didn't the original RPP mold crack or become damaged, warranting a replacement? He said people complained here about the SD40 redo. I dont remember that but just the opposite. There were a very few that griped about the lack of tread plate but Archer makes quick work of that omission, even on painted models. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Feb 8, 2016 12:14:32 GMT -8
For the quantity produced, diesel body injection dies don't wear out. And dies don't crack.
If they have failed, it was due to improper storage and/or maintenance. Which certainly is within the realm of human endeavor. As is the avoidance thereof.
Ed
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Post by roadkill on Feb 8, 2016 12:14:40 GMT -8
Heck, I had a guy perfectly happy to buy an old stock Athearn blue box wide-body GP35 in December. You have all kinds out there, and I think just as many don't care about minor detail issues as those who think it's a big deal. And that guy's probably perfectly happy driving a Yugo. Some of us have higher standards. |
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Post by roadkill on Feb 8, 2016 12:17:39 GMT -8
For the quantity produced, diesel body injection dies don't wear out. And dies don't crack. If they have failed, it was due to improper storage and/or maintenance. Which certainly is within the realm of human endeavor. As is the avoidance thereof. Ed Yes and no. The Rough Plastic Parts dies were made from aluminum, which will wear out over time. |
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Post by riogrande on Feb 8, 2016 13:02:35 GMT -8
My first car was a 1971 Pinto too, I think it was the first model year as well and didn't have a hatch but rather a trunk. Yes, I did take it for the recall too so I wouldn't blow up if rear ended. It was a gutless car with a 4 speed manual transmission - 1600 cc engine with less power than the 1457 liter Rabbit engine! Max speed was around 75 or so and shaking! But ... it was freedom and I drove it all up and down California from LA to Arcata. As for the RPP GP35, IMO it should be rebadged Roundhouse as they did the old Globe blue box F7 etc. Adults maybe not, but kids, sure  Athearn has run plenty of the blue box F7's too and that never kept them from add them to the Round House line - here are the R.H. diesels from Athearns website: Model 40 SW7 F7 A/B GP38-2 GP40-2 GP50 GP60 So the GP35, well, that should be next based on the above. Heck, the GP40-2 had a more accurate body from what I understand and it's Round House. So the logic follows. |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 8, 2016 13:11:46 GMT -8
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