Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 - Sneak Peak

[jlwii2000]

Seems like a lot of new cool effects.  I can't tell if the sound quality is upgraded though.  Thoughts?

[carrman]

Speaking of Tsunami 2's:



Athearn is pleased to announce the migration to the new Soundtraxx premium sound platform: Tsunami2. Our commitment to improving our models and end customer experience to the new Tsunami2 decoders begins retroactively into select previously announced new products.
www.dropbox.com/s/mv9tmpgp3wdtyvr/Tsunami2.pdf?dl=0
Athearn is also retroactively migrating the entire RTR line to Soundtraxx Econami decoders with select previously announced new RTR products.
www.dropbox.com/s/227fq6oel3v1v3o/Econami.pdf?dl=0
#‎HorizonHobby #‎Athearn #‎SoundTraxx #‎Tsunami

[mvlandsw]

If I understand correctly the air compressor is going to rev up when the train brakes are applied. This is not the way that the prototype works. The compressor should activate when the train brakes are released. It may start up when the engine brakes are applied, but not always. It depends on what the main reservoir pressure is at when the application is made.

The transition on the EMD engines should be dependent on speed, not throttle position, as on some of the Soundtrax products.

I hope they keep manual notching as auto notching never seems to match the model operation very well.

Mark Vinski

[BEDT26]

Ok very nice so how much are they going to cost ?

[valenciajim]

Tony's has them for $103.96.

tonystrains.com/shop/?s=tsunami2

[ddatrainman]

Not bad, I hear the difference and the recording sounds better and more crisp. Look forward to trying this out some time in future loco purchases from Athearn.

[edwardsutorik]

I'm quite happy with Loksound. Is there a reason I should change?


Ed

[riogrande]

May 25, 2016 20:30:03 GMT -8 edwardsutorik said:

I'm quite happy with Loksound. Is there a reason I should change?


Ed

Only if your ears like the new Tsu2 a whole lot better. I've only dabbled a bit in sound myself but from what I've heard of some of the Loksound diesels, there was no contest so it's a high bar to surpass. I will be waiting for some comparisons to see what the dealeo is.

[davidmbedard]

.....didn't ring the bell or toot the horn......the horn was the Achilles heal of tsunami.

[Tom]

All the same features of an ESU decoder, and less, for roughly the same price?...
Agreed about the horn and bell, and no dynamics.

Curious how many, other than CNW, drove their HEP off the prime mover with a 567?

EDIT:
the horn/bell samples are on the video on the main ST page. An improvement over the last version of the decoder.

[notabob]

The Diesel DDE is actually unique to the Tsu2. LokSound doesn't have a similar capability, even in the recent Full Throttle update. It's still more of a manual operation there. I like this, but that alone is not enough to warrant a wholesale switch back to Tsunamis. Rest of audio sounds about the same as the old Tsunamis. I got a lengthy list of comments in the other thread on Tsunami2 we have on this forum - don't want to repeat myself.

[Tom]

I thought CV56 allowed for load control in the 4.0. This is definitely more automated, but something that should be able to be remedied in a software patch, I'd think. I'll talk to Matt in a couple of weeks and find out.

Are the ST decoders as customizable in JMRI as the ESU have been with their software?

[notabob]

May 26, 2016 9:12:37 GMT -8 Tom said:

I thought CV56 allowed for load control in the 4.0. This is definitely more automated, but something that should be able to be remedied in a software patch, I'd think. I'll talk to Matt in a couple of weeks and find out.

Are the ST decoders as customizable in JMRI as the ESU have been with their software?

I wasn't aware of load control capability on ESU.  Maybe it's a 4.0 thing. I've only used the Select.

SoundTraxx decoders are very customizable via JMRI.  Most of the parameters are in human-readable form in the JMRI config screens, and it does translation to CV values for you in the background.  This makes function re-mapping and speed table configuration, for instance, very easy to do via JMRI.

[Deleted]

I couldn't help but laugh at the point when they applied the break, then the engine hit the bumper and the engine notched up because it was encountering resistance. I'll still look to pick up one to experiment with though.

[notabob]

May 26, 2016 20:39:37 GMT -8 @greenwizard88 said:

I couldn't help but laugh at the point when they applied the break, then the engine hit the bumper and the engine notched up because it was encountering resistance. I'll still look to pick up one to experiment with though.

Hahaha!!  You noticed that too, huh?   I was chuckling. 

Hopefully it's something that can be adjusted via a CV, otherwise a firmware update may be in order to upgrade the decoders that have already been built.  Oh, wait...

[Great-Northern-Willmar Div]

May 26, 2016 7:04:08 GMT -8 Tom said:

All the same features of an ESU decoder, and less, for roughly the same price?...
Agreed about the horn and bell, and no dynamics.

Curious how many, other than CNW, drove their HEP off the prime mover with a 567?

EDIT:
the horn/bell samples are on the video on the main ST page. An improvement over the last version of the decoder.

CNW used a Cummins diesel and generator set in their E's and F's. The prime mover was a standard factory EMD. This is why these units had extra cooling fans on the roof for the Cummins radiators.

Milwaukee Road used a Cummins diesel and HEP generator set in their FP7's, F9's and E9A's 36A,C - 38A,C. These units like CNW had extra cooling fans for the Cummins radiators. The wild card with the HEP generator being powered by the 567 was E9A 33C. 33C was a former intercity unit. Milwaukee removed the steam generator and placed a generator in it's place. They then ran a drive shaft through the number two electrical cabinet to the number two prime mover. The number one primer mover was stock EMD. Number two ran at run 8 like an F40PH. 33C did not have any extra radiators.

Burlington Northern's E9Au's all had a separate diesel engine to power the HEP generator. The 567C power assemblies were replaced with 645 assemblies by M-K during rebuilding in 1973 and final four converted in 1978. BN's E's had extra fans for the HEP diesel.

[carrman]

Just listened to the sound samples on the website, Prime mover and horns are decent, but EMD, GE and Alco all have the same lousy dynamic brake sound. If I do factory sound, it will be Loksound or nothing. Soundtraxx lost me as a sound customer.



Dave

[santafe49]

Sure were a lot of old style Tsunami's hanging on the wall behind them. Wonder if they are going to have a fire sale to clear out the old stock?

[mlehman]

Lots of interesting changes, additions, and new features.

One of my NG acquaintances was somewhat miffed that the Tsu2 steam decoder contained nothing really new and still lacked coverage of the Rio Grande's K-28 and K-36. Since Blackstone will soon be producing both of those in multiple variations/road numbers, I suspect there will be another "NG special" or something to that effect that will become available once those models are ready for market.

His take was also that many of the files "were the same." Having listened to the sound samples on ST's website, I tend to disagree, but with the caveat that these are sound over the internet and not coming from your loco. What it sounds like to me are much the same sounds, but with higher quality. In other words, just as was stated, in some cases these are remastered versions that have noticeably higher quality reproduction than was found in the Tsu1 versions. In other cases, there's obviously new sound that wasn't previously available.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Soundtraxx is also releasing new speakers to go with the Tsu2 and the Econami. As any old school stereophile will tell you, speakers make a big difference in the sound from whatever you're driving them with.

While some are still beating the dead horse named "Horn" it should be noted that the user isn't stuck with the default sound of it, whatever your choice. The horn (and whistle in steam) now has a bunch of new options in individually shaping the sound between adjusting the mix, shaping the sound output with an equalizer, and setting the reverb. These options can also be applied to the many other effects in what is now 16 channels the Tsu2 can reproduce at once. I suspect this will also benefit the dynamic brake effect that some argued was too cookie cutter for their taste.

A feature that premiered in the recent Soundcar offering that I'm really looking forward to is the clickety-clack onboard the loco itself. Throw in a couple of pieces of rolling stock with Soundcar decoders aboard and the whole train is now emanating sound.

[carrman]

Mike, no matter what electronic gimmickry you try, you cannot make that dynamic brake hum they provide sound like each of the different builders dynamics. Loksound wins this round.



Dave

[mlehman]

Dave,
So, ummm, you haven't actually tried this decoder yet, I presume? Seems a bit premature to declare the race is over based on the betting tip sheet. Just because there isn't a button labeled "X Brand Dynamics" doesn't necessarily mean the sound can't be modified to adequately resemble the necessary hum...which is after all, only hum.

Folks go on about features that are said to be -- out of the box -- superior in other decoders, but then can't be bothered to experiment with a few CVs in a Tsunami to see what might come up...I guess it's a little like the difference between downloading music from the internet and actually picking up an instrument and learning to play it. Sure, the first results might be discouraging, but great musicians start somewhere...less than being great musicians.

Then there's the issue of how big exactly is the population that needs "X Brand Dynamics" -- because if you don't, then that really isn't much of an issue...and I rather doubt the initial Tsu2 offerings from Soundtraxx are intended to cover all the possibilities. That's clearly not the case with narrowgauge steam, so maybe you'll find your MIA dynamics available in some future version, too? In the meantime, Soundtraxx will somehow manage to make thousands of end-users happy with the same decoder you find to be so inadequate.

[carrman]

So sorry my standards are higher than yours. I don't care if they sell a million of them, but I will say to you I'd appreciate it if you'd stop downplaying my opinion like some kind of shill for Soundtraxx. And an FYI, dynamics do more than hum. Listen to the prototype sometime. If the T2 wasn't meant to cover all the possibilities, then they would have put so many different prime movers on the decoder. And as far as your snide comment about not being willing to adjust things, I'll have you know it's an SOP for me, every decoder I have be it factory install or done myself gets a trip across the programming track with Decoder Pro for all sorts of adjustments. So, I don't just "run them out of the box". So, stop pooh poohing my concerns.



Dave

[Tom]

May 27, 2016 18:40:43 GMT -8 Great-Northern-Willmar Div said:

CNW used a Cummins diesel and generator set in their E's and F's. The prime mover was a standard factory EMD. This is why these units had extra cooling fans on the roof for the Cummins radiators.

Milwaukee Road used a Cummins diesel and HEP generator set in their FP7's, F9's and E9A's 36A,C - 38A,C. These units like CNW had extra cooling fans for the Cummins radiators. The wild card with the HEP generator being powered by the 567 was E9A 33C. 33C was a former intercity unit. Milwaukee removed the steam generator and placed a generator in it's place. They then ran a drive shaft through the number two electrical cabinet to the number two prime mover. The number one primer mover was stock EMD. Number two ran at run 8 like an F40PH. 33C did not have any extra radiators.

Burlington Northern's E9Au's all had a separate diesel engine to power the HEP generator. The 567C power assemblies were replaced with 645 assemblies by M-K during rebuilding in 1973 and final four converted in 1978. BN's E's had extra fans for the HEP diesel.

Yeah, this can't emulate the additional pony motors used in later units. I was just wondering who, other than CNW, used the shaft driven HEP with 567 equipped locos. I figured CNW did, but all others I know of are 645s.

Speaking of 645s, there's only two variants of the 645 in the listed sound specs with single blocks: Turbo and Non-Turbo.  Fail. 
This doesn't allow for the distinct sound differences between 8-cyl, 12-cyl and 16-cyl., each roots blown or turbo equipped; nor the different RPM per notch of something like the F40.

[carrman]

Compare that with the multitude of sound files available from ESU.



Dave

[Mark R.]

One aspect that people may not be considering. The new T2 is "new" in the respect that due to parts obsolescence, they could no longer produce the original Tsunami and had to design a new decoder based on new architecture / parts availability and were able to make some modifications / upgrades in the process. I highly doubt they went out and re-recorded all the sound files from the original Tsunami. Sure, probably some new horns and / or bells, but I doubt many of the prime movers have been revised. This was something created out of necessity, so there are no doubt going to be some similarities between this and the original.

Mark.

[riogrande]

Mark, It may be lack of parts but even if that weren't the case, the standard Tsunami is pretty far behind the competition on a number of fronts would likely loose out on sales. The diesel sounds I've heard, for example, from Loksound sound much more "live" and better. I haven't run any Tsunami yet but many report motor control is not up to par vs. others. Horns of course has long been a low point for standard Tsu as well. They may have been "leading edge" 10 years ago but technology has moved ahead so they indeed need to catch up.

[Mark R.]

But that's what I'm getting at .... even though the "parts" are new technology, from what I'm listening to in the sound samples, the horns definitely sound better, but the prime movers still sound the same. New technology, old recordings. (?)

Mark.

[Tom]

May 31, 2016 19:16:09 GMT -8 Mark R. said:

But that's what I'm getting at .... even though the "parts" are new technology, from what I'm listening to in the sound samples, the horns definitely sound better, but the prime movers still sound the same. New technology, old recordings. (?)

Mark.

I'm sending an email to ask.  Given the selection of prime mover recordings (and the number of variants), I'd say yes. There are a few new ones on the electric side, but not much else.  I'll also ask this weekend what ESU's answer to DDE is.  I'm sure their market response will take no more than a few months, rather than wait for component discontinuance.

[notabob]

May 31, 2016 19:48:20 GMT -8 Tom said:

May 31, 2016 19:16:09 GMT -8 Mark R. said:

But that's what I'm getting at .... even though the "parts" are new technology, from what I'm listening to in the sound samples, the horns definitely sound better, but the prime movers still sound the same. New technology, old recordings. (?)

Mark.

I'm sending an email to ask.  Given the selection of prime mover recordings (and the number of variants), I'd say yes. There are a few new ones on the electric side, but not much else.  I'll also ask this weekend what ESU's answer to DDE is.  I'm sure their market response will take no more than a few months, rather than wait for component discontinuance.

Hopefully ESU can design something similar. The motor current draw data needed to replicate such behavior is already there in the decoder (used for BEMF), but they hey may not be able to anyway if SoundTraxx patented the method. Won't be able to make NERPM, but would love to hear what Matt has to say. Please report back. Thanks!

[mlehman]

May 30, 2016 7:48:17 GMT -8 carrman said:

So sorry my standards are higher than yours. I don't care if they sell a million of them, but I will say to you I'd appreciate it if you'd stop downplaying my opinion like some kind of shill for Soundtraxx. SNIP


Dave

Dave,
I get your point. You feel your opinion is superior to mine and are irritated that I merely suggest mine is OK even if different than yours. Frankly, I wasn't keeping score, but you're free to do so and to declare yourself the winner if it makes your day better.

Yes, was aware there's more to dynamic sound than hum, but seems you need to be close to the tracks to hear it. I tend to keep my volume settings at more distant listening volume, so probably not as big a deal to me, but looking forward to trying one (and no, Durango send me nothing free.) My only significant experience -- being an unfortunate flatlander (there's a 'burb called Flatville in this county) -- is from going TunnelMotor watching in the mountains, so I'm actually good -- and still wondering how many locos you have that are in the "Cursed Three" dynamics group that you feel will be underserved by the Tsu2?

And what is the obsession with "new" recordings? The Grateful Dead want to put out a new box set, they don't exactly go back and make a new recording. They go with the best they have on hand, because after all, some of them are really dead...as many locos are similarly unavailable. Better processing, a new mix, lots of ways to freshen a decent old recording. They sound better to me, and others have reported the same, but I've already noted my caveat that what you hear over the internet does not necessarily represent the decoder's sound -- and what is heard as a sample is likely simply the unmodified default sound. That's where the fun starts if you like the Tsunami -- or I suppose disappointment begins if you were expecting exactly what you want from DDE now that it's in diesel decoders. That takes more effort to get the fun going if it's like steam, but you'll be rewarded for your patience once it's dialed in I bet.