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Post by Colin 't Hart on Jul 17, 2016 7:29:10 GMT -8
Assuming Caboose doesn't close down 100%, it will be interesting to see if they have a small "store front". I assume Horizon still has the policy of dealer requirement to have a "brick and mortar" location to sell Athearn. Strange that... Factory Direct Trains and Overland Hobbies both carry Athearn, though I've never seen a store front for either of those. |
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Post by dharris on Jul 17, 2016 9:15:17 GMT -8
Assuming Caboose doesn't close down 100%, it will be interesting to see if they have a small "store front". I assume Horizon still has the policy of dealer requirement to have a "brick and mortar" location to sell Athearn. Strange that... Facory Direct Trains and Overland Hobbies both carry Athearn, though I've nebver seen a store front for either of those. Walthers and Horizon require a store front. They may however, grandfather stores in like Caboose. I don't know if they do this or not. But it sure appears as if they do. At some point Walthers and Horizon also both need sales money. |
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Post by bdhicks on Jul 17, 2016 9:35:38 GMT -8
One of the members of my local club is a dealer who only works through the internet and train shows. A few months back he became one of the few people doing business that way to be able to carry Athearn. Of course, from what he said it's really Walthers that's the big problem for non-physical stores (although I have seen a few gaming the system with them).
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Post by stottman on Jul 17, 2016 11:17:54 GMT -8
Granted it was years ago, but the Train Store I hung out at when I was a kid said that one of the manufacturers required them to send a photograph of their store front.
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Post by valenciajim on Jul 17, 2016 16:39:59 GMT -8
Granted it was years ago, but the Train Store I hung out at when I was a kid said that one of the manufacturers required them to send a photograph of their store front. I heard that too. I wonder whether that is still a requirement. |
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Post by mlehman on Jul 17, 2016 17:36:31 GMT -8
My primary supplier contracted from being a storefront to being mail order/shows only after being a storefront for a long time. Athearn dropped him because of that, but did honor the preorders already placed when this occurred. Of course, he was nowhere near as big volume as Caboose, which may be a factor.
He's never mentioned any trouble with Walthers over this change.
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Post by eh49 on Jul 17, 2016 21:35:21 GMT -8
I have a LHS that Horizon dropped because " He did not sell enough". I'd take any sale over nothing!
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Post by bnsf971 on Jul 18, 2016 4:57:44 GMT -8
Assuming Caboose doesn't close down 100%, it will be interesting to see if they have a small "store front". I assume Horizon still has the policy of dealer requirement to have a "brick and mortar" location to sell Athearn. Strange that... Factory Direct Trains and Overland Hobbies both carry Athearn, though I've never seen a store front for either of those. I know for a fact that Factory Direct Trains has a store front. I've been there in person, and purchased items off the shelf, as well as his display layout. |
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Post by talltim on Jul 18, 2016 5:24:25 GMT -8
Strange that... Factory Direct Trains and Overland Hobbies both carry Athearn, though I've never seen a store front for either of those. I know for a fact that Factory Direct Trains has a store front. I've been there in person, and purchased items off the shelf, as well as his display layout. halfway down there, on the right Here |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jul 18, 2016 12:28:58 GMT -8
I have a LHS that Horizon dropped because " He did not sell enough". I'd take any sale over nothing! Horizon has minimums that a store must order each month. I do believe Walthers also has a minimum monthly order that a store must make, I will ask my friend who owned a brick and mortar hobby shop for 15 years. Closed it down and turned off the lights because it was so hard to make minimum orders to multiple distributors month after month. For a small or even medium sized hobby shop, making Horizon and Walthers happy month after month is like serving two masters. Each of which, require a fair amount of dealer net to be met month after month. It is no surprise some shops just can't financially pump out the money to their distributors while still paying, rent, electric, heat, internet, insurance and other expenses. This is even before one red cent is taken out of the business in the form of compensation for owner(s) or employees. Today's hobby shop must turn volume, which isn't always as easy as it my sound. They say that owning a restaurant is the toughest business to succeed and survive year after year. I'd say hobby shop and other small specialty retailing has got to be a close second. |
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Post by BEDT26 on Jul 19, 2016 19:34:30 GMT -8
This is on Caboose Hobbies Facebook page I copied and paste.
July 18 2016
Hello everyone!
Caboose Hobbies has NOT announced they are closing in any way. Caboose Hobbies rumors and speculation abound on the internet. Don’t believe anything you see on the internet forums. It is pure speculation.
Yes, the land lord is selling the property and building that Caboose Hobbies leases. The land lord notified us Wed. last week as per our lease agreement with them.
We just don’t know… The Miller’s (the owners of Caboose Hobbies) are looking at new store location possibilities around the Denver Metro area.
Pre-reservations: are still good and will be. If needed they will be transferred to the manufacturer directly or another distributor, hobby store, dealer etc. We are still taking Pre-order reservations (any project to be released in the future). We are not taking back orders or special orders for projects already released.
Instead of following the hype, why not purchase something to support Caboose Hobbies?
The good news is we are having a HUGE sale! See our website for full details!
And thank you for your loyal support!
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Post by dharris on Jul 20, 2016 12:21:20 GMT -8
This is on Caboose Hobbies Facebook page I copied and paste. July 18 2016 Hello everyone! Caboose Hobbies has NOT announced they are closing in any way. Caboose Hobbies rumors and speculation abound on the internet. Don’t believe anything you see on the internet forums. It is pure speculation. Yes, the land lord is selling the property and building that Caboose Hobbies leases. The land lord notified us Wed. last week as per our lease agreement with them. We just don’t know… The Miller’s (the owners of Caboose Hobbies) are looking at new store location possibilities around the Denver Metro area. Pre-reservations: are still good and will be. If needed they will be transferred to the manufacturer directly or another distributor, hobby store, dealer etc. We are still taking Pre-order reservations (any project to be released in the future). We are not taking back orders or special orders for projects already released. Instead of following the hype, why not purchase something to support Caboose Hobbies? The good news is we are having a HUGE sale! See our website for full details! And thank you for your loyal support! Caboose Hobbies could have precluded speculation with more up front information such as the above. There is still nothing on their website other than the initial announcement for example. |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jul 20, 2016 17:17:53 GMT -8
This is on Caboose Hobbies Facebook page I copied and paste. July 18 2016 Hello everyone! Caboose Hobbies has NOT announced they are closing in any way. Caboose Hobbies rumors and speculation abound on the internet. Don’t believe anything you see on the internet forums. It is pure speculation. Yes, the land lord is selling the property and building that Caboose Hobbies leases. The land lord notified us Wed. last week as per our lease agreement with them. We just don’t know… The Miller’s (the owners of Caboose Hobbies) are looking at new store location possibilities around the Denver Metro area. Pre-reservations: are still good and will be. If needed they will be transferred to the manufacturer directly or another distributor, hobby store, dealer etc. We are still taking Pre-order reservations (any project to be released in the future). We are not taking back orders or special orders for projects already released. Instead of following the hype, why not purchase something to support Caboose Hobbies? The good news is we are having a HUGE sale! See our website for full details! And thank you for your loyal support! Caboose Hobbies could have precluded speculation with more up front information such as the above. There is still nothing on their website other than the initial announcement for example. In the Caboose Hobbies announcement they stated "All Sales Are Final". If you are sticking around then why should "All Sales Be Final". You'll also notice in their Facebook announcement they've covered their bases with news about transferring reservations and "We just don't know". |
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Post by Judge Doom on Jul 20, 2016 19:57:56 GMT -8
Sure, blame the internet for their own failure to clearly communicate.
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Post by dharris on Jul 21, 2016 6:05:58 GMT -8
Sure, blame the internet for their own failure to clearly communicate. If Caboose Hobbies was on a store lease with such short notice, and they wanted to be in business long term, their search for a new location would not just now be starting as smart business owners. I recall when MB Kliens moved from Gay Street, they had a new location and plan selected when it was announced. I seem to recall from the email I received the old site was to be turned into condominiums or apartments. I wonder if that ever happened. I do hope Caboose finds a new store location and stays in business. I will miss visiting that old store. |
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Post by peoriaman on Jul 21, 2016 6:10:11 GMT -8
Hello everyone! Caboose Hobbies has NOT announced they are closing in any way. Caboose Hobbies rumors and speculation abound on the internet. Don’t believe anything you see on the internet forums. It is pure speculation. Yes, the land lord is selling the property and building that Caboose Hobbies leases. The land lord notified us Wed. last week as per our lease agreement with them. We just don’t know… The Miller’s (the owners of Caboose Hobbies) are looking at new store location possibilities around the Denver Metro area. Pre-reservations: are still good and will be. If needed they will be transferred to the manufacturer directly or another distributor, hobby store, dealer etc. We are still taking Pre-order reservations (any project to be released in the future). We are not taking back orders or special orders for projects already released. Instead of following the hype, why not purchase something to support Caboose Hobbies? The good news is we are having a HUGE sale! See our website for full details! And thank you for your loyal support! Translation: "We'll be gone by the end of the year. Thanks for your loyal support!" |
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Post by riogrande on Jul 21, 2016 6:14:26 GMT -8
Never been there but have ordered stuff from them many times over the years. My Palace Car Company de-kirted Prospector RGZ combine and a couple of my brass cabooses came from there. Many other items too.
Only time will tell but being the institution that they have been and are, I imagine they will try hard to find a new location and stay up and running.
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Jul 21, 2016 6:59:55 GMT -8
I too am optimistic. Denver and Colorado are a hotbed of railroad and model railroad interest with a huge number of visitors from other states and countries (I've frequently heard foreign languages being spoken when I've been in Caboose). If there's the will to carry on, it can be made to happen.
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Post by mlehman on Jul 21, 2016 7:09:26 GMT -8
Caboose Hobbies could have precluded speculation with more up front information such as the above. There is still nothing on their website other than the initial announcement for example. Umm, this is the internet, nothing precludes speculation... If Caboose Hobbies was on a store lease with such short notice, and they wanted to be in business long term, their search for a new location would not just now be starting as smart business owners. I recall when MB Kliens moved from Gay Street, they had a new location and plan selected when it was announced. SNIP The real estate market in Denver is vastly different than in Baltimore. Even if Caboose Hobbies had picked out a potential alternative location, that would have been very much a moving target and one they would have had to revisit constantly. It's not like empty real estates just sits until you decide to do something unless you put down an option. I'd guess they'd have better things to do than such a speculative exercise... Most likely the lease in a long-occupied location was more favorable than any likely alternatives, so you stay with what you know you can afford and deal with change when it happens. |
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Post by roadkill on Jul 21, 2016 7:10:31 GMT -8
IDK, but... I don't see this ending well.
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Post by dharris on Jul 21, 2016 7:31:05 GMT -8
Caboose Hobbies could have precluded speculation with more up front information such as the above. There is still nothing on their website other than the initial announcement for example. Umm, this is the internet, nothing precludes speculation... If Caboose Hobbies was on a store lease with such short notice, and they wanted to be in business long term, their search for a new location would not just now be starting as smart business owners. I recall when MB Kliens moved from Gay Street, they had a new location and plan selected when it was announced. SNIP The real estate market in Denver is vastly different than in Baltimore. Even if Caboose Hobbies had picked out a potential alternative location, that would have been very much a moving target and one they would have had to revisit constantly. It's not like empty real estates just sits until you decide to do something unless you put down an option. I'd guess they'd have better things to do than such a speculative exercise... Most likely the lease in a long-occupied location was more favorable than any likely alternatives, so you stay with what you know you can afford and deal with change when it happens. Caboose could have head off *much* speculation by better explaining their situation. I looked up MB Kliens address and it appears to me the old building is gone, but only a parking lot is there now. As for looking for a new location, if I owned a business located in a three month lease building, in a changing neighbothood, and I wanted to stay in business, I would have at least one good commercial real estate agent keeping an eye on the market and keeping me informed of options. That takes 15 minutes a week to do. Thus when the landlord gives you the notice, you are well aware of the prices, options, locations, terms, types of buildings etc. I didnt write "pick out a new location" so you are mis reading it. The store in Westminster closed also. If Caboose goes away that will leace Denver with no good trains stores. That would be sad. |
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Post by mlehman on Jul 21, 2016 11:09:10 GMT -8
I don't get what some see as a vast info gap. They're going to be going through some changes, there's a sale on and - what's important in terms of making future buying decisions - pre-ordering was discussed specifically. Things they're not doing, like special orders, they've said what you'd need to know.
Whether or not they did anything you recommended, I'm not saying they didn't either, they're in the middle of a business decision that lays out the future of their enterprise. I seriously doubt if I would conduct such a process in a public way. Give them a break and show a little patience, I'm sure when they have something of that nature to announce, they will. Until then, they don't even need a reason to not be more specific about their plans. If I was negotiating for a lease, I sure wouldn't want my future plans outlined in the press, especially if there were multiple options that could take whatever happens in very different directions. It's that still open process that's probably why they've not been more specific in public.
Then consider they may have already made a choice. Getting the paperwork done to where everything is set enough to announce/update can take some time when due diligence is involved.
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Post by dharris on Jul 21, 2016 11:39:17 GMT -8
I don't get what some see as a vast info gap. They're going to be going through some changes, there's a sale on and - what's important in terms of making future buying decisions - pre-ordering was discussed specifically. Things they're not doing, like special orders, they've said what you'd need to know. Whether or not they did anything you recommended, I'm not saying they didn't either, they're in the middle of a business decision that lays out the future of their enterprise. I seriously doubt if I would conduct such a process in a public way. Give them a break and show a little patience, I'm sure when they have something of that nature to announce, they will. Until then, they don't even need a reason to not be more specific about their plans. If I was negotiating for a lease, I sure wouldn't want my future plans outlined in the press, especially if there were multiple options that could take whatever happens in very different directions. It's that still open process that's probably why they've not been more specific in public. Then consider they may have already made a choice. Getting the paperwork done to where everything is set enough to announce/update can take some time when due diligence is involved. Who has said there is a "vast communications gap" ? Caboose Hobbies published suddenly a rather vague email and then posted about not believing speculatuon on issues they didnt comment on but are rather obvious That is it. In 2016 if a business isnt transparent and open in their communicatuons, they will suffer fall out. That is a simple fact of life today. Who is saying to "outline in the press" their new building lease? Nobody. You are writing exaggerated statements on the situation. If they have in fact "made a choice" all they have to say is they are in the process of moving to a new location and look for details soon it. |
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Post by scl1234 on Jul 21, 2016 12:57:53 GMT -8
...As for looking for a new location, if I owned a business located in a three month lease building, in a changing neighborhood, and I wanted to stay in business, I would have at least one good commercial real estate agent keeping an eye on the market and keeping me informed of options. That takes 15 minutes a week to do. Thus when the landlord gives you the notice, you are well aware of the prices, options, locations, terms, types of buildings etc. Only problem with this approach is that after an agent has shown a couple to a few properties (with no commitment from a buyer) they will move on to other buyers. Couple this with the strong premise that profit margins for any hobby shop these days lies right down there with grocery stores and your "mode" of running a business with margins this thin lies much closer to "seat of the pants" or "one day/week at a time". |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 13:54:45 GMT -8
...Even if Caboose Hobbies had picked out a potential alternative location, that would have been very much a moving target and one they would have had to revisit constantly. It's not like empty real estates just sits until you decide to do something unless you put down an option. I'd guess they'd have better things to do than such a speculative exercise... Most likely the lease in a long-occupied location was more favorable than any likely alternatives, so you stay with what you know you can afford and deal with change when it happens. That's long on speculation, short on facts. You know nothing of the specifics of the Caboose lease or any specific piece of real estate that might be of interest (or not!) to the shop owners. As a land-use planner and 12-year holder of a CA real estate salesperson license, I call (more) BS. Some facts: Loopnet listing: www.loopnet.com/Listing/19752258/500-S-Broadway-Denver-CONote the "Available April 2016". Two buildings (both Caboose Hobbies) on one lot. Loopnet shows the lot as 25,334sf, the Assessor shows it as 24,983sf with the buildings at 15,690 Listing Broker is Nicholas Freddo 858-205-0060. Give him a call. From the County Assessor: Owner is NINE LIVES LTD APN 5151-24-031 |
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Post by drolsen on Jul 22, 2016 4:52:20 GMT -8
I recall when MB Kliens moved from Gay Street, they had a new location and plan selected when it was announced. I seem to recall from the email I received the old site was to be turned into condominiums or apartments. I wonder if that ever happened. The old location was turned into, literally, a parking lot. It has about a dozen or so parking spaces on a simple asphalt lot. It may be that whoever bought it is speculating that they'll be able to buy up other property in the area and combine them into a larger lot, but it's been a few years now since the move. In reference to an earlier comment about the old Kleins location vs. the new one, the downtown store went through some rough years where the location was a concern for many customers. In the '90s, cars would woukd occasionally get broken into, which eventually led to them placing a monitor in the parking lot under I-83. Never really great when your customers come back into the store to use the phone to call the police. The new location may seem outbid the way for people who are used to visiting Baltimore's Inner Harbor, but the Timonium / Cockeysville area is a major suburb and shopping area, so the new location exposes them to a large customer base. They probably lost some customers who lives on the south side of the city but gained people on the north side. Coming from DC, it's an easy (if somewhat longer) highway drive. And the place is packed on Timonium train show weekends. Dave |
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Post by dharris on Jul 22, 2016 5:17:26 GMT -8
...As for looking for a new location, if I owned a business located in a three month lease building, in a changing neighborhood, and I wanted to stay in business, I would have at least one good commercial real estate agent keeping an eye on the market and keeping me informed of options. That takes 15 minutes a week to do. Thus when the landlord gives you the notice, you are well aware of the prices, options, locations, terms, types of buildings etc. Only problem with this approach is that after an agent has shown a couple to a few properties (with no commitment from a buyer) they will move on to other buyers. Couple this with the strong premise that profit margins for any hobby shop these days lies right down there with grocery stores and your "mode" of running a business with margins this thin lies much closer to "seat of the pants" or "one day/week at a time". Yes true. But my point is you have an agent who knows your story and the transaction isn't starting from nothing. Any good agent will have dozens of possible maybe buyers he is tracking and working with. Of course they will move on to other people if you aren't writing a check. |
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Post by riogrande on Jul 22, 2016 5:26:25 GMT -8
I never did visit the old mbk location and from the sounds of things it's a good thing. The new one has been convenient but my wife and I have noticed the service (re: long waits, or hard to find an employee to get items out of the warehouse) has been worse than usual the last two vists. Less staff probably. She got really angry at how difficult it was and how long we had to wait on the show days we were there last couple times. It wasn't majorly crowded, only modestly.
Anyway, that's OT. Lots of chin wag from bystanders on caboose hobbies. Maybe some one can take a poll to satisfy the sidewalk supervisors? Then see who is right after the dust settles.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jul 26, 2016 17:49:34 GMT -8
The word on Train Orders from some people that were at Caboose Hobbies in the last couple of days, is they plan to stay in business as mail order only. No more storefront.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 26, 2016 18:08:02 GMT -8
Yes, just was reading that in the "vulture" topic. Only bummer is I was hoping someday to visit their store, even if in a new location. Better online only than totally gone however.
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