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Post by stottman on Jul 26, 2016 21:40:53 GMT -8
Caboose hobbies never really had low prices. Much of the stuff was MSRP or close to it. I assume because they had a store front with high overhead.
Unless they change their prices, and dial-up era website, I am not sure if Mail order only will work.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 27, 2016 0:20:56 GMT -8
Most of the stuff I ordered was discounted pretty well, although items were a little higher than MBK or a few other places.
I can't say for the walk-in store. Considering online is likely the life blood of some model train vendors, I'm not sure how you think mail order only would not work. More likely the walk-in only would not work. Sure combined is better but many stores surely get way more online/mail orders than walk-in.
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Post by Gary P on Jul 27, 2016 4:44:21 GMT -8
The word on Train Orders from some people that were at Caboose Hobbies in the last couple of days, is they plan to stay in business as mail order only. No more storefront. Just wondering.... Does their use of the term "mail order only" include or exclude online/internet sales? Some folks may use the term as inclusive with internet. |
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Post by scl1234 on Jul 27, 2016 6:10:03 GMT -8
In this day and age, any "Mail Order Only" hobby shop would not survive without internet selling. Let's just hope they get some schooling regarding what's shown as "in-stock" -vs- "en-route" -vs- "pre-order" on the new(?) website.
Given this shop's website history of not showing exactly what's in stock, they won't likely have many single item orders as they were fond of doing in the past...regardless of how many items they actually had in stock.
If they can't come close to the website model used by MB Klein or even Amazon (ugh!), they will have "fits and starts" with what's left of their customer base.
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Post by dharris on Jul 27, 2016 7:06:13 GMT -8
In this day and age, any "Mail Order Only" hobby shop would not survive without internet selling. Let's just hope they get some schooling regarding what's shown as "in-stock" -vs- "en-route" -vs- "pre-order" on the new(?) website. Given this shop's website history of not showing exactly what's in stock, they won't likely have many single item orders as they were fond of doing in the past...regardless of how many items they actually had in stock. If they can't come close to the website model used by MB Klein or even Amazon (ugh!), they will have "fits and starts" with what's left of their customer base. It is interesting to read that my experience isn't unique. I stopped doing online sales with Caboose Hobbies due to twice having partial shipments of "in stock" items, then, some time later, another box show up with other "in stock" items, which included another (not inexpensive) shipping charge. The second time it happened I had even called the store to ask about the items not shipped and they said they would cancel the rest of the order. 10 days later, a box showed up with 2 items and a shipping charge. When I called back they said if I wanted to I could ship back those items for a refund, but not of shipping. After that experience I searched out other online stores. As for the store visits, Caboose was never a large discount business. A long time ago it was simply MSRP sales. Starting around 15 years ago there were modest to medium discounts to many items added. In store stock varied greatly. The largest draw was for parts and supplies such as decals and Super Detailing items. A very large book aisle also was fun. Freight car stock was reasonable but declined over the years. Engine stock was never huge. New engines would sell out fairly quickly. I am not stating this was a bad or good thing. I am simply saying what it was. There was usually something in stock if you wanted to spend money (especially HO steam engines). Then of course there was the staff. Helpful and friendly. I agree with the comment about their website. Not too many train stores have good online shopping websites. Caboose had a search feature that was as bad as Walther's website. And of course there is the "in stock" problem referenced earlier. If Caboose is to become online only (nobody is "mail order" only today), it will have to come up with a much improved online shopping experience which makes it easy to find and order merchandise. Of interest is how Horizon and Walther's will then deal with a online only train business. Perhaps it will have a small up front presence for walk in customers to check the box of "brick and mortar required". |
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Post by calzephyr on Jul 27, 2016 10:42:10 GMT -8
If this business is making a decent profit, it will relocate and keep selling model trains. We will know the facts in just a few weeks or so if they want to continue a store or just an Internet business. Most of my purchases from Caboose Hobbies have been at the store when I visited and several brass locos over the years.
On the phone, I would talk with Don in the Brass department and he always ran a model for me and gave me good information about the model before I purchased it. I normally purchased items that were used on consignment but were like new in most cases. He would hold the item for me and get pictures taken if I had specific questions about the detail or condition of the model. I liked that service and purchased many over the past fifteen years because of his attention and helpfulness.
I find The Caboose and Dan's trains helpful also, but they have much better pictures of their models so this type of extra service is not needed in most cases.
Just a Thought. I hope they continue to offer trains in the future and the staff gets to continue working the industry.
Larry
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Post by valenciajim on Jul 27, 2016 14:26:33 GMT -8
dharris--I have experienced the same issues with high shipping charges for partial shipments. One time I ordered a $5 item as part of a $300 order. Everything was supposed to be in stock. When the rest of the merchandise was delivered, I noticed that the $5 item was back ordered. Two days later, I received the $5 item with a $12 shipping charge. I have not purchased anything on-line from Caboose Hobbies since then.
Whenever I go to Denver, which is about once a year, I always visit the Hobby Shop. The people were very helpful. Their brass inventory was fabulous and I purchased more than a couple of brass items there over the years. Going to their store was a terrific experience. I hope that they retain a walk-in store.
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Post by mlehman on Jul 27, 2016 15:12:41 GMT -8
I'd like the store experience to continue, but if they go mail order, it will have to change and I'm not sure that's in the cards. If internet only, of course, they'll need to go discount off MSRP. There is no way to be competitive otherwise, so no point in investing in a conversion to do that unless you intend to succeed. It's very hard for me to see a storefront unless just the right piece of real estate shows up and that's unlikely in the Denver market for reasons already discussed. And if the mail order side of things is discount, your walk-ins expect the same -- with the added burden of store overhead costs. Something like MBK's set-up could work, but that's all. The era of the "World's Largest Model RR Store" is coming to an end. I just don't see a MSRP-mostly storefront working, even with their world-wide rep and customer base, in coexistence with a thriving mail order side, which must be discount to be a credible competitor. Yes, their website suffers in comparison to more recent ones like MBK's that are now industry-leading. For all the whining about why they didn't have a turnkey facility to drive to at the end of a 90-step transition plan (or something...   ), arguably the bigger lack right now is the lack of a turn-key modern website, not brick-and-mortar real estate. Is that a sign that Caboose is hurting? Probably no more than many others in this hobby industry, so it doesn't matter much. This is likely not the best time to make a major investment in this industry unless you're going to offer a very competitive service/product/customer experience. But a new website could easily be ready in 90 days (or less), so there's another leading indicator to watch for if you must obsess. The bigger question is what about the employees? Depending on what size the business is the size of the anticipated layoffs, that could be a big uncertainty holding up more the "informative" press releases some think should already have gone out. You're required to advise employees at a certain point and provide them with various services. Don't know if or how that might apply here, but you'll likely know when they know, good or bad, and not too much sooner. The reduction in force that some say they've observed on the sales floor in the last few years may have been in anticipation of developments like this. Who knows? Management does and I suspect they have other priorities than keeping the sidewalk supervisor's up to date. |
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Post by gasmith on Jul 27, 2016 18:45:13 GMT -8
In this day and age, any "Mail Order Only" hobby shop would not survive without internet selling. Let's just hope they get some schooling regarding what's shown as "in-stock" -vs- "en-route" -vs- "pre-order" on the new(?) website. Given this shop's website history of not showing exactly what's in stock, they won't likely have many single item orders as they were fond of doing in the past...regardless of how many items they actually had in stock. If they can't come close to the website model used by MB Klein or even Amazon (ugh!), they will have "fits and starts" with what's left of their customer base. It is interesting to read that my experience isn't unique. I stopped doing online sales with Caboose Hobbies due to twice having partial shipments of "in stock" items, then, some time later, another box show up with other "in stock" items, which included another (not inexpensive) shipping charge. The second time it happened I had even called the store to ask about the items not shipped and they said they would cancel the rest of the order. 10 days later, a box showed up with 2 items and a shipping charge. When I called back they said if I wanted to I could ship back those items for a refund, but not of shipping. After that experience I searched out other online stores. As for the store visits, Caboose was never a large discount business. A long time ago it was simply MSRP sales. Starting around 15 years ago there were modest to medium discounts to many items added. In store stock varied greatly. The largest draw was for parts and supplies such as decals and Super Detailing items. A very large book aisle also was fun. Freight car stock was reasonable but declined over the years. Engine stock was never huge. New engines would sell out fairly quickly. I am not stating this was a bad or good thing. I am simply saying what it was. There was usually something in stock if you wanted to spend money (especially HO steam engines). Then of course there was the staff. Helpful and friendly. I agree with the comment about their website. Not too many train stores have good online shopping websites. Caboose had a search feature that was as bad as Walther's website. And of course there is the "in stock" problem referenced earlier. If Caboose is to become online only (nobody is "mail order" only today), it will have to come up with a much improved online shopping experience which makes it easy to find and order merchandise. Of interest is how Horizon and Walther's will then deal with a online only train business. Perhaps it will have a small up front presence for walk in customers to check the box of "brick and mortar required". Mailbag Hobbies (now closed) in Hampstead, MD did that, but most of their business was done at train shows. |
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Post by gasmith on Jul 27, 2016 19:09:08 GMT -8
Sure, blame the internet for their own failure to clearly communicate. If Caboose Hobbies was on a store lease with such short notice, and they wanted to be in business long term, their search for a new location would not just now be starting as smart business owners. I recall when MB Kliens moved from Gay Street, they had a new location and plan selected when it was announced. I seem to recall from the email I received the old site was to be turned into condominiums or apartments. I wonder if that ever happened. I do hope Caboose finds a new store location and stays in business. I will miss visiting that old store. MBK had been toying with the idea of moving for about 15 years before they actually did. Several times a map of the Baltimore area was posted in the old store with a sign reading "Help us find our new location" and offering a "finder's fee"(in the form of a gift certificate) for a new location. Nothing ever came to fruition this way although rumors of relocation persisted, usually involving somewhere along York Road north of the Beltway. The rumors all ran aground purportedly on the issue of shopping center rents. The current location is about a block off of York Road in a warehouse building more suited to a mail/online operation. The showroom portion of the current store sort of reminds me of Discount Model Trains in Addison, TX, which also operates out of a warehouse building. When Gay St. closed, the story was that a high rise was to be constructed on the site. The store was demolished within a few weeks of its closure and the site is still a parking lot 9 years later. The site is too small for a high rise, IMHO the garage that occupies much of the rest of the block would need to be demolished for that. The rest of the block is occupied by the headquarters of the Baltimore City Fire Department and 260 year old Zion Lutheran Church. |
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Post by dharris on Jul 27, 2016 19:11:24 GMT -8
I'd like the store experience to continue, but if they go mail order, it will have to change and I'm not sure that's in the cards. If internet only, of course, they'll need to go discount off MSRP. There is no way to be competitive otherwise, so no point in investing in a conversion to do that unless you intend to succeed. It's very hard for me to see a storefront unless just the right piece of real estate shows up and that's unlikely in the Denver market for reasons already discussed. And if the mail order side of things is discount, your walk-ins expect the same -- with the added burden of store overhead costs. Something like MBK's set-up could work, but that's all. The era of the "World's Largest Model RR Store" is coming to an end. I just don't see a MSRP-mostly storefront working, even with their world-wide rep and customer base, in coexistence with a thriving mail order side, which must be discount to be a credible competitor. Yes, their website suffers in comparison to more recent ones like MBK's that are now industry-leading. For all the whining about why they didn't have a turnkey facility to drive to at the end of a 90-step transition plan (or something... ), arguably the bigger lack right now is the lack of a turn-key modern website, not brick-and-mortar real estate. Is that a sign that Caboose is hurting? Probably no more than many others in this hobby industry, so it doesn't matter much. This is likely not the best time to make a major investment in this industry unless you're going to offer a very competitive service/product/customer experience. But a new website could easily be ready in 90 days (or less), so there's another leading indicator to watch for if you must obsess. The bigger question is what about the employees? Depending on what size the business is the size of the anticipated layoffs, that could be a big uncertainty holding up more the "informative" press releases some think should already have gone out. You're required to advise employees at a certain point and provide them with various services. Don't know if or how that might apply here, but you'll likely know when they know, good or bad, and not too much sooner. The reduction in force that some say they've observed on the sales floor in the last few years may have been in anticipation of developments like this. Who knows? Management does and I suspect they have other priorities than keeping the sidewalk supervisor's up to date. Nobody here is "whining". Your use of bombastic labeling is not productive and worse. As for notification of employees, Caboose is not covered under the WARN act, and even it it were, it has given more than 60 days of notice regardless. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_Adjustment_and_Retraining_Notification_ActAnd finally, another name for "sidewalk supervisor" is "potential money paying customer". |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 20:29:23 GMT -8
I'd like the store experience to continue, but if they go mail order, it will have to change and I'm not sure that's in the cards. If internet only, of course, they'll need to go discount off MSRP. There is no way to be competitive otherwise, so no point in investing in a conversion to do that unless you intend to succeed. It's very hard for me to see a storefront unless just the right piece of real estate shows up and that's unlikely in the Denver market for reasons already discussed. And if the mail order side of things is discount, your walk-ins expect the same -- with the added burden of store overhead costs. Something like MBK's set-up could work, but that's all. The era of the "World's Largest Model RR Store" is coming to an end. I just don't see a MSRP-mostly storefront working, even with their world-wide rep and customer base, in coexistence with a thriving mail order side, which must be discount to be a credible competitor. Yes, their website suffers in comparison to more recent ones like MBK's that are now industry-leading. For all the whining about why they didn't have a turnkey facility to drive to at the end of a 90-step transition plan (or something... ), arguably the bigger lack right now is the lack of a turn-key modern website, not brick-and-mortar real estate. Is that a sign that Caboose is hurting? Probably no more than many others in this hobby industry, so it doesn't matter much. This is likely not the best time to make a major investment in this industry unless you're going to offer a very competitive service/product/customer experience. But a new website could easily be ready in 90 days (or less), so there's another leading indicator to watch for if you must obsess. The bigger question is what about the employees? Depending on what size the business is the size of the anticipated layoffs, that could be a big uncertainty holding up more the "informative" press releases some think should already have gone out. You're required to advise employees at a certain point and provide them with various services. Don't know if or how that might apply here, but you'll likely know when they know, good or bad, and not too much sooner. The reduction in force that some say they've observed on the sales floor in the last few years may have been in anticipation of developments like this. Who knows? Management does and I suspect they have other priorities than keeping the sidewalk supervisor's up to date. Where do you get this stuff? Just more rumor & misinformation. |
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Post by mlehman on Jul 30, 2016 8:36:58 GMT -8
Nobody here is "whining". Your use of bombastic labeling is not productive and worse. You mean bombastic like this? If Caboose Hobbies was on a store lease with such short notice, and they wanted to be in business long term, their search for a new location would not just now be starting as smart business owners. Given that such things are usually regarded as confidential business information, I would not expect anything public to be revealed about a new location and/or new business model to be announced until it was set. The fact this has not taken place suggests it's still a work in progress. Sort of like when Apple announces products when they're ready for market -- and virtually nothing in advance. Nothing at all unusual about that. So what's the big deal over Caboose? You're asking for something rather unusual -- and impugning Caboose's management in the bargain, because they may have started this search long ago, yet it's unlikely to have been anything they were able to commit to prior to the loss of a lease, let alone announce at the drop of a hat even if they had. For all we know, management at Caboose, like many of us here, may have had an emotional attachment to the idea of a brick-and-mortar store and are still coming to terms with the fact that the numbers don't look good to actually do that now that what they likely feared has come to pass. And if they're a good employer -- and fewer and fewer are nowadays -- they may be having an even harder time deciding a future for their employees, who they value. Frankly, I'd rather think of Caboose management in that way, struggling to come to terms with this misfortune, rather than reaching for the axe and loping them off. Amputation is quicker, but hardly painless. Give 'em a break if reaching for the axe isn't their first inclination. As for notification of employees, Caboose is not covered under the WARN act, and even it it were, it has given more than 60 days of notice regardless. Yeah, I suspected that Caboose was too small to be covered by WARN, which is why I made the comment about the trickling away of employees. However, the 90-day notice given discussed here would not satisfy the WARN requirements, which are rather specific. Telling customers there are changes coming is not the same as a WARN notice. Now that we've determined that's a tangent, though, we can put that aspect to rest. Feel better? |
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Post by milgentrains on Jul 30, 2016 11:26:08 GMT -8
At one time, I thought that I heard that Gary Coleman of Different Strokes fame once worked there in the 80's.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 30, 2016 12:15:32 GMT -8
Thats what I recall too.
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Post by dharris on Jul 30, 2016 12:34:19 GMT -8
Stating common commercial real estate practices is not the same as labeling everyone Else's posts as whining.
However, labeling is apparently OK to do.
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Post by drolsen on Jul 30, 2016 16:13:53 GMT -8
As for the store visits, Caboose was never a large discount business. A long time ago it was simply MSRP sales. Starting around 15 years ago there were modest to medium discounts to many items added. In store stock varied greatly. Caboose Hobbies always seems to offer their best discount on advance reservation items. Those prices are usually competitive with Klein's and other mail order dealers. After the items arrive and become part of the regular stock, the price goes up to a much smaller discount. The appeal of Caboose Hobbies to me was always the availability of detail parts right in their store. Not many other stores ever carried that kind of variety. I used to make the trip up there every few months when I lived in Colorado Springs, and I always stop by there when visiting Denver since I moved away, but it's been about 6 years since I was there last, I think. There was a time period about 10 years ago when they were really struggling. The shelves were half empty, and many locals were concerned that they were going under. Then they seemed to pick up again and restocked the shelves. I never had any issues with parking - I'd just use the Wendy's lot across the street and grab a bite to eat after shopping. I used to mail order from them, but I had a bad experience where they tried to ship several box cars to me individually (I'd ordered 6 of them together, but they started arriving individually from the manufacturer, and Caboose wouldn't hold them to ship as one order. One $24 box car plus $14 shipping (twice before I cancelled the rest of my order) was not my idea of good customer service. When Gay St. closed, the story was that a high rise was to be constructed on the site. The store was demolished within a few weeks of its closure and the site is still a parking lot 9 years later. WOW. Has it been that long already? Seems like it was only a few years ago. I like the new location, but it doesn't have the character of the old shop, with the shelves packed full of models that you could spend hours searching through. The new system of having to wait for someone to pull something from the warehouse is a bit tedious, but I don't mind poking around there while I wait. I just moved out West though, so I'll be doing all mail order now, which is great too. I had stopped ordering from them for a while when they stopped taking reservations, but they will always be my "LHS," and their prices are hard to beat. Dave |
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Post by gasmith on Jul 30, 2016 19:54:35 GMT -8
I've been buying from MBK for 47 years. Their prices were a Godsend. I wouldn't have a lot of what I have if I had to deal only with full MSRP shops.
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Post by mlehman on Jul 30, 2016 22:16:54 GMT -8
At one time, I thought that I heard that Gary Coleman of Different Strokes fame once worked there in the 80's. Nah, I think a shop in SoCal is what you're recalling. |
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Post by mlehman on Jul 30, 2016 22:28:16 GMT -8
Stating common commercial real estate practices is not the same as labeling everyone Else's posts as whining. However, labeling is apparently OK to do. I think the problem was then implying that Caboose's management was somehow uncommunicative, incompetent, asleep at the wheel, or just plain insulting its customers by not offering more at the moment. There are plenty of reasons why that might be so, the most obvious one being they don't know themselves. If they were absolutely committed to a storefront, yeah, they might have done it your way. Given the shaky ground underneath the LHS in general, the vast uncertainties of doubling down on that are daunting, even assuming all else in that market being equal -- and that's just not the case, whatever "common commercial real estate practices" might be elsewhere. These folks deserve our forbearance, not a street inquisition about what they're doing wrong moments after getting hit with a showstopper drop-dead date. Maybe I've been a bit uncharitable here, but mainly because the whole tone of "WHAT IS CABOOSE DOING WRONG?" that became this thread's unwritten subtitle was rather uncharitable. I know some people prefer the term transition to talking about death. Is that why some want to keep the buzzards circling, rather than give them a decent interval to take care of important matters, form a plan, and make an announcement in due course? Give 'em a break. |
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Jul 30, 2016 22:50:33 GMT -8
At one time, I thought that I heard that Gary Coleman of Different Strokes fame once worked there in the 80's. My one celebrity sighting, the many times I was in there pre-2007, was Steve Lee, of UP steam locomotive program fame, browsing in the books aisle. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2016 9:35:24 GMT -8
At one time, I thought that I heard that Gary Coleman of Different Strokes fame once worked there in the 80's. My one celebrity sighting, the many times I was in there pre-2007, was Steve Lee, of UP steam locomotive program fame, browsing in the books aisle. I think Coleman worked at Allied Hobbies, Culver City, for a while. One day in the early 80s when I was working at the UP East Yard hump tower he walked in. He went right over to the fridge and opened it up, checkin' it out. We all gave him a quick tour of the hump ops. |
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Post by valenciajim on Jul 31, 2016 18:21:36 GMT -8
As to Cary Coleman--He did work for Caboose for a while and while he was there he was on the cover of an RMC issue. He worked later on at Allied in their fancy store.
I saw him come into Allied once several years ago, as a customer. He started yelling at the top of his lungs at the people working there using expletives for every other word. It was very sad.
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Post by mlehman on Aug 1, 2016 8:11:24 GMT -8
Jim,
OK, did not remember that right. I remember seeing the RMC cover, but what stuck with me was what I guess was his longer time at Allied. Almost made a career out of it. Fame, fortune and misfortune, and health issues can make life difficult.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Aug 1, 2016 8:47:52 GMT -8
Jim, OK, did not remember that right. I remember seeing the RMC cover, but what stuck with me was what I guess was his longer time at Allied. Almost made a career out of it. Fame, fortune and misfortune, and health issues can make life difficult. My life is far from easy, but I don't go around spewing expletives, because of issues in my life. Just because you were at one time famous, had some cash, have health issues, etc. does not excuse boorish behavior. So his life was "difficult", I guess that means for all of us other low life piles of festering garbage, who are not "famous" and SUCK IT UP and are sociable should give this one moron a pass? I think not. This is the trouble with this country, where people are willing and expecting a free pass because "they have issues"....boo hoo. Take responsibility for your place in life and actions and make it better. |
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Post by mlehman on Aug 3, 2016 0:07:45 GMT -8
Jim, Not a celebrity watcher, so I can only speak to general memories of Gary's problems. He seemed to settled down in later life, although still had his problems. That happens with a lot of us when we were younger, but being a child star doesn't help. We all have problems though. You hope friends and family are there for you and that you in turn are there for them. A few mistakes should not make for a ruined life or most of us would spend our lives there. There's a lot to be said for forgiveness, understanding, and patience. They make life better, too. Please rest assured that I have just as much concern over your misfortunes as I do about Gary's. More in fact, because I know you a little and, well, from what little I hear you're better behaved  . Still, compassion is not a zero-sum game, where you get less because someone else seems to get more. Compassion feeds on itself, it expands to fill the space needed. And it often costs nothing despite being so valuable. |
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Post by dharris on Aug 9, 2016 17:23:50 GMT -8
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Post by el3672 on Aug 11, 2016 17:23:51 GMT -8
So the building owner grabbed that offer and pulled the plug real fast on Cab Hobbies
but they saw it coming. Sounds like Mr. Miller will hopefully strike a deal on a new space
soon and set up shop again.
Fingers crossed and all the best Mr.Miller
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Post by Spikre on Aug 15, 2016 10:52:24 GMT -8
?? they still have their Ad in the Current RMC. wonder how long that will take to run out ? and how many will show up after the store is closed? have "Visited" a number of Closed and gone store locations in the past,and this was before the 'net arrived. Mr Art Curran pulled one stores' ad after the description given to him of the Boarded Up House being used as a drop site. Spikre  |
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Post by alcoc430 on Aug 16, 2016 15:27:53 GMT -8
Email today they are gone
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. Still, compassion is not a zero-sum game, where you get less because someone else seems to get more. Compassion feeds on itself, it expands to fill the space needed. And it often costs nothing despite being so valuable.
