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Post by pboilermaker on Aug 3, 2018 18:07:01 GMT -8
Sooooo...C&O and CSX predecessor derivatives will be along many months down the road?
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Post by delta767332er on Aug 3, 2018 18:48:08 GMT -8
In addition, the Western Maryland had these cars too, both in oxide red and in grey Bittinger stone train service paint. Similar, certainly above most's "stand-in" thresholds, but not a match as the first three roads in this initial release. For "Chessie family" modelers, the C&O 151500-151999 series is a much closer match, though requiring the addition of heap shields. Credit to Matt Robertson for the initial survey of relevance. Brian Bennett |
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Post by middledivision on Aug 3, 2018 18:54:23 GMT -8
Impressive.
However, $50 for a car I need dozens of is a bit much for me.
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Post by milner1 on Aug 3, 2018 19:20:41 GMT -8
Hoping to see the Erie Lackawanna 12 panel Greenville version eventually. These are nice looking cars. I wonder if the EL cars would ever be produced. The EL cars were very similar in design to the H39, but supposedly had a slightly different angle to the slope sheets. Would this be enough of a difference for Arrowhead to avoid releasing an EL model?
-pat
The EL car had different slope sheets and a thicker top panel on the ends. They also had ladders and a low brake stand. They lasted past Conrail in company service, many in EL paint. Lets hope he tackles these some day. Dan |
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Post by simulatortrain on Aug 3, 2018 21:37:12 GMT -8
Decorated $48.95 per car, undecorated $48.50 per car. 48 numbers of Pennsy, 24 numbers of DRG&W, and 12 numbers of Southern Railway. Three undecorated kit versions to choose from. These are awesome hoppers and I hope they lead to additional hoppers such as the AAR 14 panel 70-ton hopper of which there many more owners. The short list of owners is PRR, PC, CR (and repaints), NS Railway, SOU, Norfolk Southern (current), N&W, EL, P&LE, C&O, C&O - CSX, WM, and DRG&W. MILW and L&N rostered similar looking cars, but the slope sheet angles are much steeper and they are taller cars. www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1723796www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4083770How good of a match are these to any P&LE cars, and any further info? I wouldn't mind having a few of those. |
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Post by ambluco on Aug 4, 2018 4:43:37 GMT -8
<snark>
So which industry niche did this announcement fill? The one where 48 road numbers were announced for car with the wrong data printed on them (PRR)? They are due 8/10 for shipping so I assume they are all made already.
At least the people who normally chime in with "for $50, you'd think they'd get that right" still have something to talk about in this new industry niche. Maybe they should have had someone from the PRRT&HS look at them instead of the CB&Q society for the glowing reviews.
</snark>
PRRT&HS confirmed data is wrong. I still ordered some.
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Post by NS4122 on Aug 4, 2018 5:33:32 GMT -8
<snark> So which industry niche did this announcement fill? The one where 48 road numbers were announced for car with the wrong data printed on them (PRR)? They are due 8/10 for shipping so I assume they are all made already. At least the people who normally chime in with "for $50, you'd think they'd get that right" still have something to talk about in this new industry niche. Maybe they should have had someone from the PRRT&HS look at them instead of the CB&Q society for the glowing reviews. </snark> PRRT&HS confirmed data is wrong. I still ordered some. Since it appears that Blaine Hadfield is regarded as some sort of superhero by most on this forum, you won't see much criticism here for producing his "signature" freight car with a major gaffe. So far its been crickets. |
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Post by middledivision on Aug 4, 2018 5:44:49 GMT -8
<snark> So which industry niche did this announcement fill? The one where 48 road numbers were announced for car with the wrong data printed on them (PRR)? They are due 8/10 for shipping so I assume they are all made already. At least the people who normally chime in with "for $50, you'd think they'd get that right" still have something to talk about in this new industry niche. Maybe they should have had someone from the PRRT&HS look at them instead of the CB&Q society for the glowing reviews. </snark> PRRT&HS confirmed data is wrong. I still ordered some.[/quote That’s quite the boner. (mistake) Reminds me of the Exactrail Southern waffles with incorrect data. No excuse for that. |
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Post by SOMECALLMETIM on Aug 4, 2018 6:07:46 GMT -8
I will say the major issue with the method of product release of "announce and ready to purchase" that Arrowhead and Tangent follow is if there is an overlooked error - it's permanent and can't (tooling error) / won't likely be fixed (lettering, etc) with that release is because the products are at the warehouse and ready to ship instead of announce, wait 12 moths to never, and then release like many other companies do. Gives time for that holder-of-all-of-the-knowledge to maybe email or think about emailing or calling or just waiting until it's released and then bitching because they have the right answer and data, but no one contacted them for their expert opinion. Or gives time for a company to ask for assistance to ensure accuracy from the masses. It requires those who do the research - especially for a paint scheme and lettering to do their diligence and and ensure it's correct. If a model is jacked up or a poor selling choice of a model under this product release method, it's a good way to bankrupt/go out of business quickly. However I've never owned a model company so what do I know. In the end it's the owner's decision.
However to CSXT's point, once people receive their orders, it will be confirmed or denied that there is in fact a lettering gaffe.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 4, 2018 6:08:25 GMT -8
Apparently a big PRR oops, there.
What I think would be neat would be for Arrowhead to mail out data patch decals for these cars. Since they're direct order, it's easy to get the mailing list.
Of course, for those who can't apply decals, that could be a problem.
Arrowhead could then do a corrected "new" run later.
Ed
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Post by SCL618 on Aug 4, 2018 6:13:55 GMT -8
If I was a SPF and needed the H39 enmass, I'd purchase the cars, and get to work with some small squares of Microscale black Trimfilm followed by various "54" placed directly atop the existing data from one of the 5 existing Microscale sets 87-1200 through 87-1204 to remedy the capacity data and then jumble the load limit. I'm a stickler for this stuff on my own models and usually get rolling eyeballs from fellow modelers when I tell them it took 9 sets to get this decal or that line of data, but with the existing finish of today's models, you can simply overlay decals onto the model to correct these issues, apply some Microset and then overspray the model with a flat finish and then weather as desired. How bad do you want it is what I used to get asked routinely when griping about a RTR model, and given that one doesn't have to remove cast on grab irons, yeah I'll take an Arrowhead Models H39 over a Stewart all day, every day. In reviewing several of the prototypes, it is difficult to tell there is anything written on the sides of these hoppers after some years. www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1629681I'm pleased with the release and just wish it was the longer AAR 70 ton 14 panel version so I could get some replacements for the old Stewart, but there is always next time when it comes to model releases. |
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Post by 12bridge on Aug 4, 2018 6:24:45 GMT -8
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Post by SCL618 on Aug 4, 2018 6:25:23 GMT -8
The P&LE hoppers are all over the map with some in the 62,000 series with others in the 64,000 series. I'm not a P&LE modeler, but in comparing the P&LE hopper to that of the new model, it appears that the slope sheets are shallower on the P&LE cars compared to the model by about 18". The rib shape, riveting, and overall appearance are very close to one another. The easiest means to determine the difference is to compare the placement of the grab irons on the ends of the model and prototype. The P&LE hoppers should have the end sheet below the third uppermost grab iron on both ends whereas on the model, it falls beneath the second uppermost grab iron. www.rr-fallenflags.org/ple/ple63786ads.jpgarrowheadmodels.com/collections/shop/products/committee-design-hopper-pennsylvania#images-3 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 6:29:54 GMT -8
Blaine hasn't confirmed if the data is wrong on the production cars; and I'll do the same with the 154000 lbs data if so. Not a biggie for me, but I am re-stenciling mine for the Conrail era anyway. Some with the original paint and some with the Pennsylvania painted out and CR numbers.
The car's detailing speaks for itself, and it is a welcome addition to my fleet. This is a start of a series of Eastern RR coal hoppers that have been neglected for years. I'm modeling an interchange on my layout with the Big 4/NYC Cairo IL branch; Karnak IL. These cars will fit right in with the ExactRail 3737 quads on my MP coal trains.
I'd say hold off on the snarky comments (although I know some in our hobby can't wait to unload them) until you verify with the manufacturer that there is indeed an error. The photos from the video do note they are pre-production cars.
And, Blaine has certainly been a super hero to me. Without the cars he has produced or directed production on while at ExactRail; I’d be either modeling another line or out of trains completely.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 6:45:39 GMT -8
If I was a SPF and needed the H39 enmass, I'd purchase the cars, and get to work with some small squares of Microscale black Trimfilm followed by various "54" placed directly atop the existing data from one of the 5 existing Microscale sets 87-1200 through 87-1204 to remedy the capacity data and then jumble the load limit. I'm a stickler for this stuff on my own models and usually get rolling eyeballs from fellow modelers when I tell them it took 9 sets to get this decal or that line of data, but with the existing finish of today's models, you can simply overlay decals onto the model to correct these issues, apply some Microset and then overspray the model with a flat finish and then weather as desired. How bad do you want it is what I used to get asked routinely when griping about a RTR model, and given that one doesn't have to remove cast on grab irons, yeah I'll take an Arrowhead Models H39 over a Stewart all day, every day. In reviewing several of the prototypes, it is difficult to tell there is anything written on the sides of these hoppers after some years. www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1629681I'm pleased with the release and just wish it was the longer AAR 70 ton 14 panel version so I could get some replacements for the old Stewart, but there is always next time when it comes to model releases. I am hopeful that he will do the 14 panel car as well in the future. |
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Aug 4, 2018 6:57:30 GMT -8
<snark> So which industry niche did this announcement fill? The one where 48 road numbers were announced for car with the wrong data printed on them (PRR)? They are due 8/10 for shipping so I assume they are all made already. At least the people who normally chime in with "for $50, you'd think they'd get that right" still have something to talk about in this new industry niche. Maybe they should have had someone from the PRRT&HS look at them instead of the CB&Q society for the glowing reviews. </snark> PRRT&HS confirmed data is wrong. I still ordered some. Dang yo!! You hit him pretty hard but then ended with, "I still ordered some". Which means that the error reporting marks really do not matter to you but you just wanted to point it out, hit them hard for the error and shame them for not seeking help from an expert group then you simply continued ordering some. So what was the point of bashing the model, picking out the errors then telling them they should have sought expert help?? You still ordered some. Funny! Anyways, I will chime in with my opinion now. First, I am not interested in the coal hoppers, too old anyway, not my railroad and at $50 a pop for a coal car is a no go. Second, to make a large announcement, build up anticipation and proclaim making the most accurate and detailed model for this type of car and then place wrong reporting marks, well that is just a damn shame!! There is NO EXCUSE dawg!! None. Now I am no expert on that road or reporting marks so I am relying on what others have reported. It is a lackluster announcement anyways, this coal car is not a Stand out or a UNIQUE MODEL release as it looks just like all the other coal cars out there. I KNOW that is going to rub some people the wrong way for saying this but aww well. It's my opinion so you can agree or disagree with it. Lastly, silence from Blaine about the error tells me that it is likely an actual error and people will be paying $50 for a super detailed error. Good job!! AT $50 PER CAR THEY SHOULD BE ABOSLUTELY PERFECT, as you were claiming prior to the announcement. The End P.S. And I really do like Blaine but this is a business and I am being straight up honest, not sugar coating to please anyone. |
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Post by NS4122 on Aug 4, 2018 7:07:18 GMT -8
If I was a SPF and needed the H39 enmass, I'd purchase the cars, and get to work with some small squares of Microscale black Trimfilm followed by various "54" placed directly atop the existing data from one of the 5 existing Microscale sets 87-1200 through 87-1204 to remedy the capacity data and then jumble the load limit. I'm a stickler for this stuff on my own models and usually get rolling eyeballs from fellow modelers when I tell them it took 9 sets to get this decal or that line of data, but with the existing finish of today's models, you can simply overlay decals onto the model to correct these issues, apply some Microset and then overspray the model with a flat finish and then weather as desired. How bad do you want it is what I used to get asked routinely when griping about a RTR model, and given that one doesn't have to remove cast on grab irons, yeah I'll take an Arrowhead Models H39 over a Stewart all day, every day. In reviewing several of the prototypes, it is difficult to tell there is anything written on the sides of these hoppers after some years. www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1629681I'm pleased with the release and just wish it was the longer AAR 70 ton 14 panel version so I could get some replacements for the old Stewart, but there is always next time when it comes to model releases. You would have to redo all of the weight data on the car. Its all wrong, not just the CAPY. |
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Post by wmrdgfan on Aug 4, 2018 7:28:18 GMT -8
<snark> So which industry niche did this announcement fill? The one where 48 road numbers were announced for car with the wrong data printed on them (PRR)? They are due 8/10 for shipping so I assume they are all made already. At least the people who normally chime in with "for $50, you'd think they'd get that right" still have something to talk about in this new industry niche. Maybe they should have had someone from the PRRT&HS look at them instead of the CB&Q society for the glowing reviews. </snark> PRRT&HS confirmed data is wrong. I still ordered some.[/quote That’s quite the boner. (mistake) Reminds me of the Exactrail Southern waffles with incorrect data. No excuse for that. Normally I wouldn't comment on an issue like this, but I feel that with all the "HYPE" of announcing "PACKAGING" and then the video of how magnificent these details are on this car, to get the data wrong on the printing process is a major issue. If I am going to pay $50 for a car, I sure as H don't want to have to re-decal it to make it right. Sorry but this stuff is getting too expensive for me. |
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Post by NS4122 on Aug 4, 2018 7:45:06 GMT -8
Since it appears that Blaine Hadfield is regarded as some sort of superhero by most on this forum, you won't see much criticism here for producing his "signature" freight car with a major gaffe. So far its been crickets. Looks like pitch forks, torches and rotten tomato's are gathering. You know, no matter how much effort a person put's in, and I have no doubt a great deal of effort was put in, still sh.. happens. No body is perfect so enjoy yourself your moment of glee.  As Ed pointed out, it might be a good gesture if the data is incorrect to offer decals to those who want them. How happy would you be if the s**t happened to your Rio Grande cars that cost almost 50 bucks a pop? |
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Post by middledivision on Aug 4, 2018 8:09:14 GMT -8
Normally I wouldn't comment on an issue like this, but I feel that with all the "HYPE" of announcing "PACKAGING" and then the video of how magnificent these details are on this car, to get the data wrong on the printing process is a major issue. If I am going to pay $50 for a car, I sure as H don't want to have to re-decal it to make it right. Sorry but this stuff is getting too expensive for me. I hope he does not end up eating a big pile of PRR cars. Not a great way to start a new company. |
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Post by tom on Aug 4, 2018 8:37:52 GMT -8
I hope he does not end up eating a big pile of PRR cars. Not a great way to start a new company. I doubt that! First do not really know if the production cars have this problem. Second I doubt that people who really want an accurate PRR H39 will say nah I'll wait a couple of more decades to see if another manufacturer releases another H39. Finally I did order one and if the car has this minor error (at least visually) I will correct it using tiny 54's that I already have. Most will just ignore the problem. Its not like the car is spelled PENNSYLVNAIA. No matter the small error I am very excited about the new car! Never expected this first car from Arrowhead to be something that I really wanted for my Penn Central railroad. |
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Post by upcsx on Aug 4, 2018 8:51:28 GMT -8
Anybody that starts making new high end Model Railroad products is to me a "super hero" think you Arrowhead and Scale Trains.
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Post by NS4122 on Aug 4, 2018 9:52:30 GMT -8
Well, since my characterization of Mr. Hadfield has been affirmed by two posters already, I don't see comparing him to a superhero as being mean spirited. My point is that because of who he is he will get a free pass on his company's mistake, as was best characterized by Jim Fitch's comment that "s**t happens". Had any other company done this they would have been raked over the coals for "lack of quality control" or "poor research" etc.
Also, since Mr. Hadfield monitors this forum and others, don't you think if the photos were of a preproduction sample and the production cars were OK he would be on here to set the record straight almost immediately to prevent loss of sales?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 10:17:46 GMT -8
Some of the other interesting points to the car's release are the additional road names and paint schemes that this car alone can garner. The Penn Central and Conrail repaints alone would be tons of road numbers to accumulate. Thanks to these guys (Arrowhead; Tangent; ExactRail) I have a choice of some of the most prolific coal hoppers in high quality on the market.
For me the addition of the H39 to the high end genre enables more thought process on how and what to model exactly. If we eventually get the 14 panel HE-7A (Erie Lackawanna) hoppers in original paint and Conrail re-paints; as well as the H43 in high quality; a majority of the Eastern coal hopper fleets would be attainable.
Blaine has already hinted in this release that the NW didn't think this car was necessary; and opted for their own series; the H-11 series. This car is very similar and I would bet he has it under development or ready to go as well. The factory closure in China is probably the only thing that would inhibit it's production; as well as the second run of the H39's with PC and Conrail and C & O in short order.
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Post by middledivision on Aug 4, 2018 10:52:44 GMT -8
Well, since my characterization of Mr. Hadfield has been affirmed by two posters already, I don't see comparing him to a superhero as being mean spirited. My point is that because of who he is he will get a free pass on his company's mistake, as was best characterized by Jim Fitch's comment that "s**t happens". Had any other company done this they would have been raked over the coals for "lack of quality control" or "poor research" etc. Also, since Mr. Hadfield monitors this forum and others, don't you think if the photos were of a preproduction sample and the production cars were OK he would be on here to set the record straight almost immediately to prevent loss of sales? Exactly. He could put this to rest with one post. The car is a phenomenal model of a hopper, that as a Pennsy modeler, I need. I just refuse to correct a mistake on a $50 car. |
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Post by middledivision on Aug 4, 2018 10:56:24 GMT -8
I hope he does not end up eating a big pile of PRR cars. Not a great way to start a new company. I doubt that! First do not really know if the production cars have this problem. Second I doubt that people who really want an accurate PRR H39 will say nah I'll wait a couple of more decades to see if another manufacturer releases another H39. Finally I did order one and if the car has this minor error (at least visually) I will correct it using tiny 54's that I already have. Most will just ignore the problem. Its not like the car is spelled PENNSYLVNAIA. No matter the small error I am very excited about the new car! Never expected this first car from Arrowhead to be something that I really wanted for my Penn Central railroad. Please buy more than one! I'll wait for the second run with the errors fixed. |
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Post by keystonecrossings on Aug 4, 2018 13:19:04 GMT -8
I have at least 75 Stewart H39s that'll be heading to an auction site near you! Aren't you referring to the Stewart G39's? Different car. |
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Post by keystonecrossings on Aug 4, 2018 13:20:28 GMT -8
I have at least 75 Stewart H39s that'll be heading to an auction site near you! Is the Stewart H39 the same as what Bowser lists as a 70 ton 12 panel hopper? The Stewart model is the G39 and is considered a gondola. |
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platec
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The object of nostalgia is further away than it appears
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Post by platec on Aug 4, 2018 16:31:26 GMT -8
To clarify, G39's are ore jennys (gons), and H39's are hopper's. Bowser has made versions of both.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 17:21:26 GMT -8
I'm talking hoppers here - related to the Arrowhead hoppers. How did this morph into gondolas and ore Jennie's? Back to what I was asking, are the Bowser 70 ton 12 panel hoppers the same as the Stewart H39 hopper? Which is similar to the Arrowhead hopper. Yes. They are one in the same, Jim. The 14 panel hopper is the HE-7A car, I believe...or a close representation. |
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