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Post by cemr5396 on Nov 12, 2018 8:14:04 GMT -8
I think I'm more likely to get struck by lightning then them lasting that long. It's not like the 'crappy model trains' niche doesn't already have a bunch of occupants. |
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Post by wp8thsub on Nov 12, 2018 9:23:44 GMT -8
They do look very NASCAR-ish in their marketing though.  I'm runnin' my Value Trains and drinkin' beer! |
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Nov 12, 2018 9:32:05 GMT -8
Methinks their nearest competitor is Franklin Mint.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 12, 2018 9:42:33 GMT -8
But what are they worth if you have to melt them down?
Ed
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Post by bnsf971 on Nov 12, 2018 10:47:16 GMT -8
I guess if nothing else, this shows what a car made in the USA would have to look like in order to have similar pricing to what we now enjoy from China. Of course, some real paint schemes would be nice, and not cost much, if any, more. Have to? Kadee, cough, cough. Price point around $40. They even have real paint schemes. And KADEE COUPLERS! About the only complaint is that they surely take forever to bring out a new model. Maybe they're happy with sales as they are?  ? Ed Ed, I thought it had been made clear long ago thereason Kadee can do this is because they already have the infrastructure in place to support the business. And it looks like not too much business, either, based on how infrequently completely new stuff comes from them. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 12, 2018 13:56:04 GMT -8
It may have. Who was it who made it clear? Kadee?
Ed
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Post by carrman on Nov 12, 2018 14:37:07 GMT -8
It's the unholy union of Franklin Mint and Tyco.
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Post by brakie on Nov 12, 2018 15:45:21 GMT -8
They do look very NASCAR-ish in their marketing though. Rob,That poor bozo been used for over zealous modelers, gamers that insist all new games be for computer only, military modeler that thinks any less then 1/35th is useless etc.. |
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Post by riogrande on Nov 12, 2018 16:38:51 GMT -8
They do look very NASCAR-ish in their marketing though. Unlike Larry, I've never seen that picture before, but after seeing the guy in the Value Trains website photos and then your picture, I keep busting up. Showed it to my wife and she started busting up. My cheeks hurt! |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Nov 12, 2018 18:36:08 GMT -8
I don't understand the comment? I find it amusing to read the comments expressing indignation at a model boxcar. I don't think that this model is aimed at the holier than thou rivet counter crowd. I guess you'll be a buyer of this model at $25? At their price point, there isn't a lot of "Value" in their offering. Plus, it is sub-standard to cars of some other manufacturers at the same price point. Their advertising that their cars have Kadee couplers wouldn't have a lot of appeal to beginners. Only after you've been active in the hobby does the brand of coupler make you take notice. |
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Post by Judge Doom on Nov 12, 2018 19:42:38 GMT -8
Have to? Kadee, cough, cough. Price point around $40. They even have real paint schemes. And KADEE COUPLERS! About the only complaint is that they surely take forever to bring out a new model. Maybe they're happy with sales as they are? ? Ed Ed, I thought it had been made clear long ago thereason Kadee can do this is because they already have the infrastructure in place to support the business. And it looks like not too much business, either, based on how infrequently completely new stuff comes from them. Kadee's coupler business subsidizes their trickle of new freight cars made in the USA (mostly re-runs, they do very little newly tooled prototypes, and they've also yet to do any locomotives). From a post by Jason Shron on another group: And an unpopular opinion but food for thought: you could probably be paying 1/4 the price for a Kadee coupler that's made in China, vs one currently made in the US. |
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Post by stottman on Nov 12, 2018 23:03:47 GMT -8
Ed, I thought it had been made clear long ago thereason Kadee can do this is because they already have the infrastructure in place to support the business. And it looks like not too much business, either, based on how infrequently completely new stuff comes from them. Kadee's coupler business subsidizes their trickle of new freight cars made in the USA (mostly re-runs, they do very little newly tooled prototypes, and they've also yet to do any locomotives). From a post by Jason Shron on another group: And an unpopular opinion but food for thought: you could probably be paying 1/4 the price for a Kadee coupler that's made in China, vs one currently made in the US. Subsidize is the wrong word to use. That would imply they are not making little to no profit on said product. I think a better argument is that Kadee already had the infrastructure in place. Physical factory located in White City, Oregon, in house designers already on the payroll, in house tool and die makers, in house production machines, in house painting and decorating, and a huge distribution network with a dedicated customer base. Their "brother" company, MicroTrains also does everything in house as well.. I am sure having them 30 minutes away helped. They are also located in Southern Oregon, which is (and always has been) a "working class" area with relatively low labor costs... Especially compared to say, Canada near a major city. Second, Kadee cars were designed very well. Their boxcars snap together with almost no glue. Compare that to the "Manufacturers" like Rapido, Scale Trains, Exactrail, even Athearn, who never had that in the 1st place... Or in Athearn's case, closed it. |
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Post by milgentrains on Nov 13, 2018 6:51:59 GMT -8
I find it amusing to read the comments expressing indignation at a model boxcar. I don't think that this model is aimed at the holier than thou rivet counter crowd. I guess you'll be a buyer of this model at $25? At their price point, there isn't a lot of "Value" in their offering. Plus, it is sub-standard to cars of some other manufacturers at the same price point. Their advertising that their cars have Kadee couplers wouldn't have a lot of appeal to beginners. Only after you've been active in the hobby does the brand of coupler make you take notice. I have no need for this car as I have enough of the other makers cars. I'm sure that Value Line Trains did market research to see if these cars would sell and to whom. There is room in this great hobby for all levels of people and I'm afraid that attitudes like yours do nothing but drive some people away. |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Nov 13, 2018 16:48:25 GMT -8
There is room in this great hobby for all levels of people and I'm afraid that attitudes like yours do nothing but drive some people away. What attitude? I'm simply stating that at $25 what you are getting is less than other manufacturers. Drive people away? How? Through the years I've spent decades promoting model railroading, be it N, HO or O gauge. Nothing is more fun than seeing kids light up when you run any scale of train. Spent over a decade helping customers in my friend's now closed bricks and mortar hobby shop. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 16:58:40 GMT -8
The only thing that could potentially drive me away from the hobby would be seeing all the manufacturers go back to the type of cars being offered by Value Trains for $30 a pop. These are $5 cars at best...despite their kadee couplers and trucks, IMO.
But, I don't think they targeted Jim and the rest of us on this forum...at least I hope they didn't...I want to progress with my models...not regress.
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Post by Judge Doom on Nov 13, 2018 17:32:46 GMT -8
The only thing that could potentially drive me away from the hobby would be seeing all the manufacturers go back to the type of cars being offered by Value Trains for $30 a pop. These are $5 cars at best...despite their kadee couplers and trucks, IMO. But, I don't think they targeted Jim and the rest of us on this forum...at least I hope they didn't...I want to progress with my models...not regress. You mean a $5 car with $10 worth of Kadee trucks & couplers.  I suppose expecting highly detailed prototypical stuff out of Value Trains at this point is like trying to get blood from a stone. Their whole marketing and business setup seems to be geared to UP Heritage / memorabilia fans with a "Made in 'Murrica" spin. If they seem to think there's a market for that kind of stuff, then best of luck, but at the end of the day people will keep buying from you because of the quality of your products. The marketing and gimmicky stuff can only carry a company so far, even if it is made on this side of the pond. |
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Post by NS4122 on Nov 13, 2018 17:37:55 GMT -8
Since this forum is mostly made up mostly of 70’s era “rivet counter” type modelers (not meant in a derogatory manner, just honestly) a lot of us are unaware that there is a whole sea of model train enthusiasts out there who don’t even know that trains even have rivets, but just collect trains or run them around the Christmas tree once a year. They probably even don’t know or care about molded on grab irons, correct roof rib patterns or scale couplers. They buy it for the paint job or its general appeal. We should be happy that they exist, as there is plenty of room in the hobby for every interest.
Case in point, MB Klein recently got in 48 HO Con-Cor steam era boxcars decorated in Santa Claus and Rudolph schemes. I thought “who would buy those”? Well, all 48 sold right out. Maybe the guys at Value Line Trains actually know what they’re doing after all?
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Nov 13, 2018 18:00:16 GMT -8
I'm runnin' my Value Trains and drinkin' beer! Unlike Larry, I've never seen that picture before, but after seeing the guy in the Value Trains website photos and then your picture, I keep busting up. Showed it to my wife and she started busting up. My cheeks hurt! The picture is of "Bubba J" a character of ventriloquist and comedian Jeff Dunham. |
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Post by riogrande on Nov 13, 2018 18:12:23 GMT -8
To be fair there seem to be a lot of 1990+ fans here as well, seems like a mix ranging from 1960s to modern. But yes, the members here generally are more prototypical modeling and trying to closely copy real trains to one degree or another. I like that about this forum as some of the others have members who are more "generalists".
There may be a lot of non-prototype train people out there who run Christmas trains, collector trains and whatever is shiny.
If Value Trains succeeds, then that would be evidence of enough customers who like their products. Certainly the model train hobby has a wide range of enthusiasts. Time will tell if Value Trains has a sustainable market long term.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 20:04:11 GMT -8
Since this forum is mostly made up mostly of 70’s era “rivet counter” type modelers (not meant in a derogatory manner, just honestly) a lot of us are unaware that there is a whole sea of model train enthusiasts out there who don’t even know that trains even have rivets, but just collect trains or run them around the Christmas tree once a year. They probably even don’t know or care about molded on grab irons, correct roof rib patterns or scale couplers. They buy it for the paint job or its general appeal. We should be happy that they exist, as there is plenty of room in the hobby for every interest. Case in point, MB Klein recently got in 48 HO Con-Cor steam era boxcars decorated in Santa Claus and Rudolph schemes. I thought “who would buy those”? Well, all 48 sold right out. Maybe the guys at Value Line Trains actually know what they’re doing after all? Right on the money...I felt that way about the AEM-7 from Atlas for years...and Rob Pisani told me at the Indy National Show a few years back that Atlas did well with that engine...and those type of offerings... I agree with the notion that there probably wasn't too many of us expecting the next Tangent Scale Models; Arrowhead Models; ExactRail, etc., from them. No ill will wished towards them, either. All I know is that the Athearn Blue Box/RTR/Roundhouse ACF Railbox car is still probably on par with the "best" out there for that car...after all these years. No definitive model for it exists to this date...one of the most common boxcars out there for years...too. |
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Post by oldmuley on Nov 13, 2018 20:52:33 GMT -8
The only thing that could potentially drive me away from the hobby would be seeing all the manufacturers go back to the type of cars being offered by Value Trains for $30 a pop. These are $5 cars at best...despite their kadee couplers and trucks, IMO. But, I don't think they targeted Jim and the rest of us on this forum...at least I hope they didn't...I want to progress with my models...not regress. A quote directly from their website: "Value Trains USA is a made-in-the-USA model train manufacturer that strives to make quality, bold, exciting HO scale rolling stock for the passionate model railroad enthusiast. Based out of Marshall, Missouri, we strive to bring the future of model railroading to a new exciting level."I read "passionate model railroad enthusiast" as being very much directed at us. Besides, if these offerings are a "new exciting level", I'd hate to imagine what the old, dull models were. |
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Post by TBird1958 on Nov 13, 2018 21:34:58 GMT -8
I can happily state that my wallet is safe - just sayin'
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Post by stottman on Nov 13, 2018 21:52:32 GMT -8
No ill will wished towards them, either. All I know is that the Athearn Blue Box/RTR/Roundhouse ACF Railbox car is still probably on par with the "best" out there for that car...after all these years. No definitive model for it exists to this date...one of the most common boxcars out there for years...too. The Walthers car is the same prototype and far better; Unlike the Athearn car, it has the proper dimensions, correct roof, and doesn't have an operating door with all the problems that entails. The only downside is everything is molded on; But the more I build, decal and weather freight cars, the more I wonder if seperate parts for all that stuff is worth the bother sometimes. |
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Post by jonklein611 on Nov 14, 2018 4:20:06 GMT -8
Since this forum is mostly made up mostly of 70’s era “rivet counter” type modelers (not meant in a derogatory manner, just honestly) a lot of us are unaware that there is a whole sea of model train enthusiasts out there who don’t even know that trains even have rivets, but just collect trains or run them around the Christmas tree once a year. They probably even don’t know or care about molded on grab irons, correct roof rib patterns or scale couplers. They buy it for the paint job or its general appeal. We should be happy that they exist, as there is plenty of room in the hobby for every interest. Case in point, MB Klein recently got in 48 HO Con-Cor steam era boxcars decorated in Santa Claus and Rudolph schemes. I thought “who would buy those”? Well, all 48 sold right out. Maybe the guys at Value Line Trains actually know what they’re doing after all? Right on the money...I felt that way about the AEM-7 from Atlas for years...and Rob Pisani told me at the Indy National Show a few years back that Atlas did well with that engine...and those type of offerings... I agree with the notion that there probably wasn't too many of us expecting the next Tangent Scale Models; Arrowhead Models; ExactRail, etc., from them. No ill will wished towards them, either. All I know is that the Athearn Blue Box/RTR/Roundhouse ACF Railbox car is still probably on par with the "best" out there for that car...after all these years. No definitive model for it exists to this date...one of the most common boxcars out there for years...too. A close enough AEM-7 is better than no AEM-7 at all! I'm just happy it's beefy enough to pull drag my amsleds around... I think the reaction on this site came from all the hype about this new boxcar. Everyone here was expecting another scale trains type release, and was let down when it was more in line with Franklin Mint / Bachmann. |
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Post by riogrande on Nov 14, 2018 4:29:23 GMT -8
Everyone here was expecting another scale trains type release, and was let down when it was more in line with Franklin Mint / Bachmann. I doubt many here had such notions or were let down. I was not expecting a ScaleTrains type release simply due to the name of the brand "Value Trains" which doesn't convey a high fidelity product. Remember, Intermountain has labeled their former E&C/LBF/Hubert rolling stock as Value Line, i.e. the name value in this context communicates lower cost, low detail more budget friendly. So really I don't see how anyone here was misled or had allusions that the models coming would be off that mark. |
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Nov 14, 2018 4:36:40 GMT -8
Everyone here was expecting another scale trains type release, and was let down when it was more in line with Franklin Mint / Bachmann. I doubt many here had such notions or were let down. I was not expecting a ScaleTrains type release simply due to the name of the brand "Value Trains" which doesn't convey a high fidelity product. Remember, Intermountain has labeled their former E&C/LBF/Hubert rolling stock as Value Line, i.e. the name value in this context communicates lower cost, low detail more budget friendly. So really I don't see how anyone here was misled or had allusions that the models coming would be off that mark. I agree, but I'm still amazed at how bad the actual product is: * chunky tooling * duplicates existing models * major tooling error: the roof * incredibly poor paint quality * foobie schemes * the price point |
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Post by riogrande on Nov 14, 2018 5:02:04 GMT -8
I agree, but I'm still amazed at how bad the actual product is: * chunky tooling * duplicates existing models * major tooling error: the roof * incredibly poor paint quality * foobie schemes * the price point I noticed on one photo the stirrup was very thick and had a fair amount of flash on it. In the photo's I couldn't judge the paint quality very well. Maybe the scwartz is not strong with me - here let me try it again: *Jedi Handwave* these are not the trains you are looking for. |
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Post by NS4122 on Nov 14, 2018 9:35:32 GMT -8
[/quote]I agree, but I'm still amazed at how bad the actual product is:
* chunky tooling
* duplicates existing models
* major tooling error: the roof
* incredibly poor paint quality
* foobie schemes
* the price point[/quote]
The people buying these cars don't care about any of these things except for the flashy albeit "foobie" paint schemes.
On a side note, I wondered why they would put Kadee couplers on a crude model with plastic wheels until I realized they probably had no choice if they wanted to keep their "Made in USA" claim as I believe all the clones and plastic couplers are made offshore.
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Post by brakie on Nov 14, 2018 10:16:58 GMT -8
Guys,You can still find Athearn BB and Roundhouse car kits by the dozen at train shows and IMHO these oldies but goodies is superior to these new $25.00 cars which reminds me of train set quality cars of yesteryear.. Cars like these are a far better choice for good enough/close enough modelers..Cars like these served my freight car need for years. I would have kept them but, my oldest grandson is not interested in those old cars and instead of them going into the dumpster after my demise I decided to sell them. One of these cars is a Bachmann.  |
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Post by carrman on Nov 14, 2018 10:35:23 GMT -8
All I know is these things are banned from my club before they even show up.
Dave
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