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Post by antoniofp45 on Jun 25, 2019 18:26:38 GMT -8
MTH has come a long way, public-relations and offerings-wise . Of that I'm glad as I criticized them, multiple times, on the forums back in the mid 2000's during the infamous "QSI" wars . But that, thankfully, is water under the bridge. I like their HO IRT Subway cars very much as I grew up riding the prototypes. Been talking about getting a set for the longest and am glad they're still available. I may be able to a set of 4 later this year. One "WAY TO GO!"comment I give to MTH is that non-powered subway cars are available. So it's possible to have a 5 or 6 car train with just one unit powered, with the rest providing the "lighting show". Win-win. Re: Military comments. All I can add is that my wife's cousin is in his 60's and a Vietnam Vet. Has a layout and is a GN, BN, SF,BNSF fan. I paint and decal his models because his hands tremble due to his exposure to chemicals during the conflict. Yet, he doesn't complain but appreciates the acknowledgments that people are giving veterans including MTH. Seems noteworthy; especially considering that in this day and age, society is generally "much less polite" than just 20 years ago and people are openly disrespected by others in public.
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Post by valenciajim on Jun 25, 2019 19:35:05 GMT -8
I have some MTH locos and passenger cars. They are not bad. I have the Walthers version of the UP baggage car that carried President's Bush's coffin, but if I purchase any MTH product, their version with the open door and the coffin might be what I purchase.
I wouldn't call the MTH catalog a "wallet killer." I reserve that term for Rapido.
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Post by bridge2nowhere on Jun 25, 2019 19:39:29 GMT -8
The only new tooling appears to be the UP ACF baggage car in several iterations. From the small pictures I can see, it appears inferior to the existing Walthers model in many ways, and doesn't really go with any of their other offerings.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Jun 25, 2019 19:53:43 GMT -8
So whatever happened to that company that introduced itself at the NTS lat year, with all of the hokey commemorative boxcars? Did they crash and burn as fast as we all thought that they would? Too much competition from MTH and others? Value Trains USA? www.valuetrainsusa.com/Seems like the boxcar line is a mechanism to sell some less-popular Kadee products? As well, custom promo boxcar printing seems to be their thing, rather than appealing to prototype scale modellers.
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Post by riogrande on Jun 26, 2019 2:58:52 GMT -8
People ridicule MTH for their Halloween and Christmas engines, but some of the same people have Godzilla on their layout, huge pumpkins on flat cars and witches on engines, not to mention snow men and santa claus. More likely, it's the people who have Godzilla on their layouts who are fans of MTH and the Halloween and Christmas engines. That is a silly and baseless argument. People don't make things up, they have reasons personal to them. There is a continuum of models between "toy" and "scale" trains. Generally people in this forum tend toward the scale end. Other forums are different - there is a guy at TrainOrders who has a shop and huge Lionel layout in the mid-west and some are fans of it - more power to them. It's not my bag but they have their fun. I don't hate MTH, and I don't hate Linonel either either. They just serve different purposes or a different genre of hobbyist and apparently a sufficient level of patronage to maintain their offerings.
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Post by gevohogger on Jun 26, 2019 4:23:16 GMT -8
People ridicule MTH for their Halloween and Christmas engines, but some of the same people have Godzilla on their layout, huge pumpkins on flat cars and witches on engines, not to mention snow men and santa claus. "Some"? More than one?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 7:29:34 GMT -8
Neither VT or MTH would EVER be on my radar. My first train set was a Tyco set. I was 8. My first REAL model train engine was the old wide-body Athearn Blue Box SD45 in CB&Q; bought in 1982. It's been a migration towards better models for me; not worse.
Why go backwards? I don't get it. We want BETTER models...not stuff that regressed to the toy train days. For too long we've settled for sub part details and such; and now we're on the cusp of getting better handrails (maybe; thanks to Rapido) across the industry.
We also need to stand up for better assembly. Not worse.
I might be wrong...but that's my 2 cents.
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Post by es80ac on Jun 26, 2019 8:17:55 GMT -8
I really liked MTH Bipolar electrics, it is a very unique and interesting locomotive that no other manufacturers would likely attempt. Wonder why MTH has not made a follow up release of it.
In regards to the veteran topic, the people who actually put themselves in harms way do warrant recognition, but nowadays most of the "support the troops" slogan are being bantered about by some politicians who in reality could care less about veterans or anyone else for that matter. Veterans are just props to push their own political narrative.
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Post by csx3305 on Jun 26, 2019 8:31:09 GMT -8
People ridicule MTH for their Halloween and Christmas engines, but some of the same people have Godzilla on their layout, huge pumpkins on flat cars and witches on engines, not to mention snow men and santa claus. "Some"? More than one? New member....three posts.... possible MTH shill detected.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jun 26, 2019 8:31:57 GMT -8
MTH? Who? Oh, you mean that company that was caught red-handed shilling their product on the old Atlas Forum and the MR Forum? The ones that made outrageous comments on how MTH was going to take over the industry, threatened every HO loco company with lawsuits, made misleading and false claims in full-page ads in the hobby press...and so on. The only good thing they did was fight the UP licensing and win for everyone; for that I'll give them credit. But other than that, they've been bad for the hobby.
As for their product..meh. I don't like their sloppy handrail stanchions. Yes, warping handrails are very unrealistic, but so are handrail stanchions that are all at different angles to each other. That's a throwback to Athearn BB kits, and I'm so done with that. Their operating couplers are junk. The smoke is unwanted (and annoying to layouts and people). The gaps between boilers and tenders (and A & B units) are Grand Canyon-sized. The lack of any ashpan vision blocks over their trailing trucks is extremely toy-like. Their failure to embrace full-DCC compliance is dumb. As a result, MTH isn't popular, at least in my neck of the woods.
At my 65-member club, we have over 2000 engines registered to members. Of all these locos, there are just six MTH engines: 3 SD70's, 2 PA's, and 1 Triplex. For comparison, there are 416 Atlas, 382 Athearns, 289 BLIs, 265 Protos, 114 Rapidos, 73 Katos, 71 Bachmann Spectrums, 59 Overlands, etc. Yes, we have ~10 times more brass Overland locos than we have plastic MTH engines.
MTH a wallet killer? Sorry, man, but they are more like a wallet saver.
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Post by mr_smith on Jun 26, 2019 10:41:15 GMT -8
Most MTH products I have no use for, but their quad/taconite cars are a huge improvement over the Walthers and Athearn cars. Of course the MTH cars were twice the price I paid for my Walthers cars, but if they would have offered DMIR again I would have definitely bought more, a lot more.
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Post by ChessieFan1978 on Jun 26, 2019 10:59:26 GMT -8
My Wallet has been safe from MTH since they got into the HO Scale market and with this catalog it's still safe!
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Post by westerntrains on Jun 26, 2019 16:54:40 GMT -8
New member....three posts.... possible MTH shill detected. Really? I point out the obivious and im a possible mth shill.
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Post by brakie on Jun 26, 2019 17:48:08 GMT -8
I have some MTH locos and passenger cars. They are not bad. I have the Walthers version of the UP baggage car that carried President's Bush's coffin, but if I purchase any MTH product, their version with the open door and the coffin might be what I purchase. I wouldn't call the MTH catalog a "wallet killer." I reserve that term for Rapido. Jim, In my case Atlas seems to be my wallet killer. It say much when my old Atlas/Roco Alco S4s run as smooth as the newer S4s. My older Atlas Kato GP7s runs as smooth as my Atlas Classics that's made in China.
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Post by valenciajim on Jun 26, 2019 23:13:30 GMT -8
Brakie--I agree, I still have some of those older Atlas locomotives. I think each of us has a wallet killer, but for relatively few of us MTH is a wallet killer.
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Post by gevohogger on Jun 27, 2019 4:46:04 GMT -8
New member....three posts.... possible MTH shill detected. Really? I point out the obivious and im a possible mth shill. You spelled "oblivious" wrong.
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Post by westerntrains on Jun 27, 2019 6:09:34 GMT -8
Really? I point out the obivious and im a possible mth shill. You spelled "oblivious" wrong. Read the original post. If you must comment please take the time to know what I was refering too. But you ingnored the obivious and were oblivious to what I was refering too.
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Post by gevohogger on Jun 27, 2019 6:33:28 GMT -8
You spelled "oblivious" wrong. Read the original post. If you must comment please take the time to know what I was refering too. But you ingnored the obivious and were oblivious to what I was refering too. Right over your head...
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Post by westerntrains on Jun 27, 2019 6:56:07 GMT -8
Read the original post. If you must comment please take the time to know what I was refering too. But you ingnored the obivious and were oblivious to what I was refering too. Right over your head... Kinda
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Post by selector on Jun 27, 2019 11:27:56 GMT -8
On another forum, a member bit the bullet and purchased the NYC passenger car set that MTH offered for their version of the Dreyfus Hudson. He has the BLI version of the locomotive, but I forget whey he went with the MTH cars. Anyway, he really likes them and is fully satisfied with his purchase.
I stopped caring when MTH made their otherwise very nice UP 4-12-2 with an articulated frame. I can fill in some details and ideas when I play with my trains, and suspend some disbelief, but two things get in my way: wispy smoke that drifts off unnaturally and hinged frames just to get around curves.
Finally, no matter who sells them or who buys them, they're ALL toys. We each have so much real and professed tolerance for variance from fidelity to the real item. For some, that starts with the size, or the scale, and goes from there to real measurements, details, sounds, and so on.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jun 27, 2019 11:40:24 GMT -8
Sigh. No, not all model railroading items are "toys". Some are, sure. Lionel comes to mind. Brio. Thomas. And so on.
Toys are something for a child to play with, right from the dictionary. My Rapido parlor car box says right on it, "Ages 14 and Up". A freshman in High School is hardly a child.
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Post by valenciajim on Jun 27, 2019 13:12:54 GMT -8
Sigh. No, not all model railroading items are "toys". Some are, sure. Lionel comes to mind. Brio. Thomas. And so on. Toys are something for a child to play with, right from the dictionary. My Rapido parlor car box says right on it, "Ages 14 and Up". A freshman in High School is hardly a child. Well you know the old saying: "The only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys." While I consider my model railroad to be a scale model and toy trains are toys designed to run at 300 scale MPH. Unfortunately, most of my friends and relatives fail to see the distinction and would not appreciate the difference between a Lionel (or MTH) train and a Rapido scale model. Some who visit my layout even want to know if I blow up the trains like on the Addams Family TV show.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Jun 27, 2019 16:02:14 GMT -8
Quick update: When I say "Wallet killer" I say for me personally. I have pre ordered the 9096 when that was announced a couple of months ago. I'll also be picking up several of the diesels from this catalog. Everyone else (as already seen) will have their own opinions of the catalog and I'm sure many wallets are completely safe from invasion.
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Post by roadkill on Jun 27, 2019 17:49:29 GMT -8
On another forum, a member bit the bullet and purchased the NYC passenger car set that MTH offered for their version of the Dreyfus Hudson. He has the BLI version of the locomotive, but I forget whey he went with the MTH cars. Anyway, he really likes them and is fully satisfied with his purchase. I stopped caring when MTH made their otherwise very nice UP 4-12-2 with an articulated frame. I can fill in some details and ideas when I play with my trains, and suspend some disbelief, but two things get in my way: wispy smoke that drifts off unnaturally and hinged frames just to get around curves. Finally, no matter who sells them or who buys them, they're ALL toys. We each have so much real and professed tolerance for variance from fidelity to the real item. For some, that starts with the size, or the scale, and goes from there to real measurements, details, sounds, and so on. OK, smart guy, why don't you explain to all of how THIS is a toy: www.ebay.com/itm/WESTSIDE-MODEL-CO-BRASS-BALTIMORE-OHIO-B-O-2-8-8-4-EM-1-LOCOMOTIVE-BOXED-np/113670299395?hash=item1a77471f03:g:~EUAAOSwSPBaa2I~Or this: www.ebay.com/itm/MP-D-RGW-Colorado-Eagle-TCY-10-car-Set-and-Correct-Challenger-E6-A-B-Set/223560795036?hash=item340d43039c:g:T60AAOSwi5Vc5LMrOr this: www.ebay.com/itm/MP-D-RGW-Colorado-Eagle-TCY-10-car-Set-and-Correct-Challenger-E6-A-B-Set/223560795036?hash=item340d43039c:g:T60AAOSwi5Vc5LMrI'll wait...
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Post by westerntrains on Jun 27, 2019 21:24:10 GMT -8
On another forum, a member bit the bullet and purchased the NYC passenger car set that MTH offered for their version of the Dreyfus Hudson. He has the BLI version of the locomotive, but I forget whey he went with the MTH cars. Anyway, he really likes them and is fully satisfied with his purchase. I stopped caring when MTH made their otherwise very nice UP 4-12-2 with an articulated frame. I can fill in some details and ideas when I play with my trains, and suspend some disbelief, but two things get in my way: wispy smoke that drifts off unnaturally and hinged frames just to get around curves. Finally, no matter who sells them or who buys them, they're ALL toys. We each have so much real and professed tolerance for variance from fidelity to the real item. For some, that starts with the size, or the scale, and goes from there to real measurements, details, sounds, and so on. OK, smart guy, why don't you explain to all of how THIS is a toy: www.ebay.com/itm/WESTSIDE-MODEL-CO-BRASS-BALTIMORE-OHIO-B-O-2-8-8-4-EM-1-LOCOMOTIVE-BOXED-np/113670299395?hash=item1a77471f03:g:~EUAAOSwSPBaa2I~Or this: www.ebay.com/itm/MP-D-RGW-Colorado-Eagle-TCY-10-car-Set-and-Correct-Challenger-E6-A-B-Set/223560795036?hash=item340d43039c:g:T60AAOSwi5Vc5LMrOr this: www.ebay.com/itm/MP-D-RGW-Colorado-Eagle-TCY-10-car-Set-and-Correct-Challenger-E6-A-B-Set/223560795036?hash=item340d43039c:g:T60AAOSwi5Vc5LMrI'll wait... Thanks for waiting. Very expensive, detailed toys. They have electric motors, they run on a layout or on the carpet. Toys, toys, toys. stuffed duck or a live duck. It's still a duck.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jun 27, 2019 23:06:55 GMT -8
Jim, There are plenty of people that don't appreciate fine art, wine, music, or books. I hope we don't judge everything by the lowest opinion held of it. jlwii, Man, you know I respect the heck out of what you do, but you have to know you kinda set yourself up for this kind of reaction. You asked, "Not sure why this isn't more talked about..." I think you got an answer or two. westerntrains, Please look up the definition of a toy, because the one that applies here is "Something for a child to play with." A child is between an infant and a youth, and a youth is a pre-adolescent (all dictionary definitions). Are you going to let a 5 year old play with something fragile when the box says "Ages 14 and up"? How about going to the local daycare center and dropping of a box full of Rapido and Athearn Genesis models for the kiddies to have fun with? That probably wouldn't work out too well (putting it mildly). Therefore they aren't toys; literally by definition.
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Post by Dear Leader on Jun 28, 2019 0:58:46 GMT -8
Jim, There are plenty of people that don't appreciate fine art, wine, music, or books. I hope we don't judge everything by the lowest opinion held of it. jlwii, Man, you know I respect the heck out of what you do, but you have to know you kinda set yourself up for this kind of reaction. You asked, "Not sure why this isn't more talked about..." I think you got an answer or two. westerntrains, Please look up the definition of a toy, because the one that applies here is "Something for a child to play with." A child is between an infant and a youth, and a youth is a pre-adolescent (all dictionary definitions). Are you going to let a 5 year old play with something fragile when the box says "Ages 14 and up"? How about going to the local daycare center and dropping of a box full of Rapido and Athearn Genesis models for the kiddies to have fun with? That probably wouldn't work out too well (putting it mildly). Therefore they aren't toys; literally by definition. Go to any club layout, train show, etc. There are steam engines pulling amtrak cars, modern tankcar unit trains. Modern deisels are pulling 40' ice reefers, wood seathed box cars, etc. Even the most prototypical club runs engines lettered for railroads that never owned that type of engine because members don't want to wear out their prize toys. Also the way some model railroaders act, it may as well be a daycare for childern. They are toys, plain and simple.
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Post by brakie on Jun 28, 2019 2:21:36 GMT -8
Guys, One of the many things I've learned over the years.. There are child's toys and man's toys.. I've heard $200.00 fishing reels called a man's toy while a modest Zebco open face reel a child's reel and the list goes on.
After being on death's door after a major heart attack I see everything very differently. Yes,in the end it doesn't matter.. Model or man's toy. Your choice.
As for me I prefer model trains over toy trains because to my mind we are modeling railroads..
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Post by riogrande on Jun 28, 2019 3:03:23 GMT -8
Jim, There are plenty of people that don't appreciate fine art, wine, music, or books. I hope we don't judge everything by the lowest opinion held of it. Well said. And with regard to the toy discussion, go read the tag under TBIRD1958's avatar - it seems appropriate here. I respect James too and he has a lot of enthusiasm about trains and is good at doing video close-ups of new trains. But next to many here, my impression is he is relatively new to the hobby.
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Post by riogrande on Jun 28, 2019 3:07:54 GMT -8
Go to any club layout, train show, etc. There are steam engines pulling amtrak cars, modern tankcar unit trains. Modern deisels are pulling 40' ice reefers, wood seathed box cars, etc. Ain't that the truth. There is one layout at the Timonium show, however, where many of the operators field very faithful replicas of real trains and even though they may not be my favorite era or road, they are a pleasure to watch because they've distinguished themselves nicely from the toy train folks! Hey, you can call them anything you want - that's your prerogative. But I think Paul Cutler said summed it up best.
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