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Post by drolsen on Jul 31, 2020 10:40:07 GMT -8
Will be interesting to see how Athearn approaches the radiator grills (side intake) Side view ST Operator ST Rivet Counter The see-through screens are nice, but maybe physical handling and paint thickness issues preclude a finer mesh screen? Tough to reproduce in HO. The door vents appear more road-specific in the Rivet Counter. Ooof... I haven't actually seen those close-ups before, and don't own one of the ST models yet, but the Rivet Counter screens look terrible, in my opinion. It reminds me of how Overland used to insist on making screens see-through, because that's what collectors expected, even if the prototype wasn't really all that see-through to begin with. There are limitations on what can be done with miniature screen, and sometimes it just looks better to weather solid plastic screens. I think that may have come up with Athearn's Genesis Amtrak P42 announcement, and it's certainly the consensus among Amtrak modelers, that the rear intake screens on the Amtrak prototype are too fine to model with see-through screen and look better if the solid plastic grills are weathered properly. Here's a similar view of a CSX CW44AC for comparison: To Athearn's credit, it's been about twenty years since they introduced the Blue Box Dash 9, I think, and they produced a BNSF version that included the staggered height door screens seen on the ST Rivet Counter model, compared to the Operator version that uses the pre-BNSF style equal height grills. Dave
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Post by spsf on Jul 31, 2020 10:43:12 GMT -8
Where is that happening? As far as I can see this thread has been, surprisingly, completely reasonable and supportive. This forum is usually the home of scathing criticism and slap fights so I have been glad to read this thread so far. And any chance of the Santa Fe warbonnets? I think you have an opening there as ScaleTrains missed the mark on the red and silver colors on theirs. Probably on Facebook. My comment was hardly pushback or a demand for an explanation. Neither the Genesis nor the ST will grace my collection so I really don't care. Just found it odd for two manufacturers to battle over a piece of pie when there is a nice big slice (AC4400) sitting off to the side ignored. A model in which a lot of the parts cross over. And yes, I know development takes time. Find it hard to believe the steel was already cut for these over a year and half ago however. Yes, it has been mostly on Facebook.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 31, 2020 11:08:25 GMT -8
Probably on Facebook. My comment was hardly pushback or a demand for an explanation. Neither the Genesis nor the ST will grace my collection so I really don't care. Just found it odd for two manufacturers to battle over a piece of pie when there is a nice big slice (AC4400) sitting off to the side ignored. A model in which a lot of the parts cross over. And yes, I know development takes time. Find it hard to believe the steel was already cut for these over a year and half ago however. Yes, it has been mostly on Facebook. Feedback: (1) Won't do Facebook. Hated it since they put their intrusive bloatware in every Android phone I've had. Have to root the phone to remove it. Variety of other reasons. I DO use your website. A lot. HOWEVER... (2) Who decided to disappear half the retired models on the Athearn.com site? I have older models that are now gone: www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=Sd38&OA=True&CatId=T&RN=B%26LERetired models was an extremely valuable resource. Walthers pulled the same stunt. Please undo this "improvement" and find a different job for whoever deemed it a good idea. Thank you!
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Post by fr8kar on Jul 31, 2020 11:12:52 GMT -8
Feedback: (1) Won't do Facebook. Hated it since they put their intrusive bloatware in every Android phone I've had. Have to root the phone to remove it. Variety of other reasons. I DO use your website. A lot. HOWEVER... (2) Who decided to disappear half the retired models on the Athearn.com site? I have older models that are now gone: www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=Sd38&OA=True&CatId=T&RN=B%26LERetired models was an extremely valuable resource. Walthers pulled the same stunt. Please undo this "improvement" and find a different job for whoever deemed it a good idea. Thank you! Quoting this entire post to say ditto to all of it.
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jul 31, 2020 11:24:54 GMT -8
Probably on Facebook. My comment was hardly pushback or a demand for an explanation. Neither the Genesis nor the ST will grace my collection so I really don't care. Just found it odd for two manufacturers to battle over a piece of pie when there is a nice big slice (AC4400) sitting off to the side ignored. A model in which a lot of the parts cross over. And yes, I know development takes time. Find it hard to believe the steel was already cut for these over a year and half ago however. Yes, it has been mostly on Facebook. That's too bad...I think it's great that two model railroad titans are going head to head on a much requested locomotive! Rivet Counter vs. Genesis 2.0 C44-9W, Awesome!
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 31, 2020 11:45:13 GMT -8
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 31, 2020 11:51:42 GMT -8
Will be interesting to see how Athearn approaches the radiator grills (side intake) Side view ST Operator ST Rivet Counter The see-through screens are nice, but maybe physical handling and paint thickness issues preclude a finer mesh screen? Tough to reproduce in HO. The door vents appear more road-specific in the Rivet Counter. Ooof... I haven't actually seen those close-ups before, and don't own one of the ST models yet, but the Rivet Counter screens look terrible, in my opinion. It reminds me of how Overland used to insist on making screens see-through, because that's what collectors expected, even if the prototype wasn't really all that see-through to begin with. There are limitations on what can be done with miniature screen, and sometimes it just looks better to weather solid plastic screens. I think that may have come up with Athearn's Genesis Amtrak P42 announcement, and it's certainly the consensus among Amtrak modelers, that the rear intake screens on the Amtrak prototype are too fine to model with see-through screen and look better if the solid plastic grills are weathered properly. Here's a similar view of a CSX CW44AC for comparison: To Athearn's credit, it's been about twenty years since they introduced the Blue Box Dash 9, I think, and they produced a BNSF version that included the staggered height door screens seen on the ST Rivet Counter model, compared to the Operator version that uses the pre-BNSF style equal height grills. Dave One could almost fake the see-through look by darker and slightly lighter shading of a plastic grille. Obviously it would be correct only at one angle (probably 90°) so it would have to be very subtle to not look fake. ETA: Dave your pics are always excellent. Great detail shots.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 11:57:47 GMT -8
Will be interesting to see how Athearn approaches the radiator grills (side intake) Side view ST Operator ST Rivet Counter The see-through screens are nice, but maybe physical handling and paint thickness issues preclude a finer mesh screen? Tough to reproduce in HO. The door vents appear more road-specific in the Rivet Counter. Ooof... I haven't actually seen those close-ups before, and don't own one of the ST models yet, but the Rivet Counter screens look terrible, in my opinion. It reminds me of how Overland used to insist on making screens see-through, because that's what collectors expected, even if the prototype wasn't really all that see-through to begin with. There are limitations on what can be done with miniature screen, and sometimes it just looks better to weather solid plastic screens. I think that may have come up with Athearn's Genesis Amtrak P42 announcement, and it's certainly the consensus among Amtrak modelers, that the rear intake screens on the Amtrak prototype are too fine to model with see-through screen and look better if the solid plastic grills are weathered properly. Here's a similar view of a CSX CW44AC for comparison: To Athearn's credit, it's been about twenty years since they introduced the Blue Box Dash 9, I think, and they produced a BNSF version that included the staggered height door screens seen on the ST Rivet Counter model, compared to the Operator version that uses the pre-BNSF style equal height grills. Dave The nice thing about it is enough people gobble up the ScaleTrains products that one can resell them for a very similar purchase price. I sold off all of my rivet counter et44’s (tier 4 ge evos) for 3 reasons: 1. Those holes on the radiator screen are god awful and detract from the entirety of the prototypical look of the model. 2. They did not use a real chain on the brake rigging (Intermountain did) 3. The first run (which I had) the color orange was so far off it didn’t match anything even remotely close to BNSF orange. I did purchase 1 ScaleTrains Dash 9 in BNSF H2. Due to having the same horrific radiator screens it is now for sale...
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Post by bdhicks on Jul 31, 2020 12:04:54 GMT -8
I wonder if you could do those screens with tinted clear plastic
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 31, 2020 12:11:56 GMT -8
I wonder if you could do those screens with tinted clear plastic That's kind of an interesting (and outside the box) idea. Would have to decide between flat with the louvers screen printed on or physically louvered with paint misted over them. Kinna lean towards the latter, but would have to experiment. Not sure if some Archer resin screenish thing might be possible as an alternative. Wonder what the military modelers do? Any .mil equipment that uses louvered screen vents? I bet dropping the question on whatever the best .mil modelling forums are might elicit some useful guidance. Some of those guys are phenomenal.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 31, 2020 12:36:47 GMT -8
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Post by mdvle on Jul 31, 2020 13:11:01 GMT -8
The PDF is up, created a separate thread for the model with a link to the PDF
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Post by bigblow69 on Jul 31, 2020 13:38:25 GMT -8
C&NW are intriguing as are the CN/BC Rail's. The others I already have in ST. Waiting for a AC4400CW.
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Post by fr8kar on Jul 31, 2020 14:01:33 GMT -8
I wonder if you could do those screens with tinted clear plastic I did that with these grilles, though you really need a light source behind them for the effect to work. They are printed in Shapeways' translucent acrylic then painted lightly/misted with the grille color, which was a thin brown wash. The grilles were masked and the whole radiator part was painted with the body color.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 31, 2020 14:23:04 GMT -8
I wonder if you could do those screens with tinted clear plastic I did that with these grilles, though you really need a light source behind them for the effect to work. They are printed in Shapeways' translucent acrylic then painted lightly/misted with the grille color, which was a thin brown wash. The grilles were masked and the whole radiator part was painted with the body color. Would definitely be cool to see how backlighting would work. Technically, one could put a light sensor somewhere outside the loco envelope (maybe in the stack facing up or out a cab window) and have that control the intensity of the light inside, but that's a lot of messing around... Someone mentioned the old Overland grilles. Since we're looking at a C36-7, here's one: The C36's were rugged looking, somewhat reminiscent of an Alco C636 As for weathering, the air intakes reflect the area in which they work and condition of right of way. Penn Central was a mud/dust/dirt mix. Conrail and NS did put money into the tracks they kept, so now it's a grayish color. Different RR's use different ballast, so that's one guide for what the intakes will see. The dusting isn't always uniform, in this picture one can almost see the "bow wave" dirt/dust (& sand) pattern on the side of the C36 and the dynamic brake air intakes. www.railpictures.net/photo/247546/Wonder what the technical term for a study of railroad dirt is? Terraferroequinologist?
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Post by thunderhawk on Jul 31, 2020 15:01:09 GMT -8
Probably on Facebook. My comment was hardly pushback or a demand for an explanation. Neither the Genesis nor the ST will grace my collection so I really don't care. Just found it odd for two manufacturers to battle over a piece of pie when there is a nice big slice (AC4400) sitting off to the side ignored. A model in which a lot of the parts cross over. And yes, I know development takes time. Find it hard to believe the steel was already cut for these over a year and half ago however. Still lots of hours sunk into a project even before tooling is done. More competition the better. According to the PDF they are not due for a year. Steel probably isn't even cut yet.... According to Janik it takes 2-3 years for them to do a locomotive. Well, it's going to release 2 years and 7 months after ST announced their Dash 9. How much time did they really have in it in Jan of 2019? I'll leave it at that. Back to cutting my own steel.
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Post by mdvle on Jul 31, 2020 15:19:07 GMT -8
C&NW are intriguing as are the CN/BC Rail's. The others I already have in ST. Waiting for a AC4400CW.
They mentioned today that the AC4400's are planned but no timeframe.
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Post by mdvle on Jul 31, 2020 15:22:58 GMT -8
Still lots of hours sunk into a project even before tooling is done. More competition the better. According to the PDF they are not due for a year. Steel probably isn't even cut yet.... According to the Janik it takes 2-3 years for them to do a locomotive. Well, it's going to release 2 years and 7 months after ST announced their Dash 9. How much time did they really have in it in Jan of 2019? I'll leave it at that. Back to cutting my own steel.
Covered at the beginning of today's live session. Project started July 2017, when ScaleTrains announced significant time and money already spent on research, including several trips to measure the real thing - there are a lot of differences between the railroads, and sometimes even within a railroad - live session still going on but 45 minutes so far discussing features for NS/BC Rail/ CN/BNSF
As for your condescending comment regarding tooling, yes tooling is well along - a picture of an EP sample from China was shown and EP samples should arrive hopefully in time for Tuesday's Athearn Live (August 4th).
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Post by spsf on Jul 31, 2020 16:15:28 GMT -8
Still lots of hours sunk into a project even before tooling is done. More competition the better. According to the PDF they are not due for a year. Steel probably isn't even cut yet.... According to the Janik it takes 2-3 years for them to do a locomotive. Well, it's going to release 2 years and 7 months after ST announced their Dash 9. How much time did they really have in it in Jan of 2019? I'll leave it at that. Back to cutting my own steel. We've got some test shots assembled already. I'll be sure to post pictures when I can.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 31, 2020 16:45:17 GMT -8
According to the PDF they are not due for a year. Steel probably isn't even cut yet.... According to the Janik it takes 2-3 years for them to do a locomotive. Well, it's going to release 2 years and 7 months after ST announced their Dash 9. How much time did they really have in it in Jan of 2019? I'll leave it at that. Back to cutting my own steel. We've got some test shots assembled already. I'll be sure to post pictures when I can. What the world (well maybe just Ed) needs is a BNSF Heritage II version of this racehorse of the rails: www.railpictures.net/photo/612180/(maybe a Rio Grande version for Jim) It will be glorious.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 31, 2020 17:22:05 GMT -8
Woo!
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Post by mdvle on Jul 31, 2020 19:35:17 GMT -8
Today's Live Event was essentially just covering the new GE Dash-9 announcement but there were 2 additional things that are possibly of interest:
- the AC4400's are planned, but no dates - the next new tooling announcement is expected November (number 6 of the their planned 6 new items this year they mentioned at the beginning of the year, though there is a possibility of a 7th).
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Post by markfj on Aug 2, 2020 8:33:29 GMT -8
For us old school diesel folks, MB Klein just posted a video showing Athearn’s GP39-2 in the Gulford D&H gray paint scheme. Looks good and I’m happy to see there is now an electrical cabinet door on the engineer’s side (time stamp 1:25). That door was missing on previous runs. Now I just need to wait patiently for a new run of Reading units. HO Scale Athearn Genesis EMD GP39-2Thanks, Mark
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Post by thebessemerkid on Aug 2, 2020 17:42:17 GMT -8
For us old school diesel folks, MB Klein just posted a video showing Athearn’s GP39-2 in the Gulford D&H gray paint scheme. Looks good and I’m happy to see there is now an electrical cabinet door on the engineer’s side (time stamp 1:25). That door was missing on previous runs. Now I just need to wait patiently for a new run of Reading units. HO Scale Athearn Genesis EMD GP39-2Thanks, Mark Don't model Guilford but that is a sharp loco. The oddball locos (GP/SD39) were.always sort of interesting. With EMD's mix n match design philosophy from the 60's and 70's, anything was possible. To wit: GP39 GP39-2 GP39P SD39 SDL39 SD39-2 SDP39 SDP39-2 DD39 DD39-2 F39 FP39 GP39B (and all other "B" variants) Would some of these variants be pointless? Probably. Doesn't mean we still can't model them
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Post by westerntrains on Aug 2, 2020 22:07:13 GMT -8
BNSF 977 in H1 had red walkways as built. I wonder if Athearn will do red walkways.
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Post by railmodeltroy14 on Aug 3, 2020 5:26:23 GMT -8
I respect the comments made by Matt and Janek when asked about Genesis 2.0 rolling stock.
They highly complimented Arrowhead models on their recently released gondola and said they didn't believe Athearn would go to that length.
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Post by spsf on Aug 3, 2020 8:05:23 GMT -8
For us old school diesel folks, MB Klein just posted a video showing Athearn’s GP39-2 in the Gulford D&H gray paint scheme. Looks good and I’m happy to see there is now an electrical cabinet door on the engineer’s side (time stamp 1:25). That door was missing on previous runs. Now I just need to wait patiently for a new run of Reading units. HO Scale Athearn Genesis EMD GP39-2Thanks, Mark Don't model Guilford but that is a sharp loco. The oddball locos (GP/SD39) were.always sort of interesting. With EMD's mix n match design philosophy from the 60's and 70's, anything was possible. To wit: GP39 GP39-2 GP39P SD39 SDL39 SD39-2 SDP39 SDP39-2 DD39 DD39-2 F39 FP39 GP39B (and all other "B" variants) Would some of these variants be pointless? Probably. Doesn't mean we still can't model them I think the SD39-2 was catalogued but had no takers.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Aug 3, 2020 10:06:00 GMT -8
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Post by spsf on Aug 3, 2020 10:19:55 GMT -8
Yes, a BNSF rebuild designation.
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Post by mdvle on Aug 3, 2020 13:22:05 GMT -8
Late, but here are highlights from the Q&A on Friday (July 31st) - as usual possible errors in my recollections/notes.
Started at 1:20:00: - VIA & GO? - still haven't heard back regarding license - various Dash-9 rebuilds? - planned but no schedule - more steam? looking at a couple of steam - 1 or 2 on list - Superliners? - not going to say no, possibility with something else - 90/43? - good possibility - Arkansas & Missouri SD70ACe? - working on license - Genesis 2.0 freight cars? - not sure what that will be given what is already in current Genesis freight cars - looking for feedback on times for the Athearn Train Tuesdays - what works better for people
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