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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 21, 2020 17:36:33 GMT -8
I didn't see any undec SD40-2/T-2 pics handy so looked at a pair of the largest SD40-2 (painted) pics I could find: It's hard to tell, I tried looking at the UP unit, both the doors and the shape of the shadow of the railing on the doors, to get an idea of what was modeled as a door atop the body sheetmetal or recessed lines simulating the doors. Would really need good pics of other undecs under strong lighting to get a better idea. Paint thickness can obscure exactly what the profiles are.
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Post by sp8299 on Jul 21, 2020 17:52:05 GMT -8
I didn't see any undec SD40-2/T-2 pics handy so looked at a pair of the largest SD40-2 (painted) pics I could find: It's hard to tell, I tried looking at the UP unit, both the doors and the shape of the shadow of the railing on the doors, to get an idea of what was modeled as a door atop the body sheetmetal or recessed lines simulating the doors. Would really need good pics of other undecs under strong lighting to get a better idea. Paint thickness can obscure exactly what the profiles are. The Dash-2s correctly have the overlapping door detail over the surrounding framing, while the SD45s correctly have “grooves” simulating the hood construction of pre-Dash 2 units. See Cannon’s reply above.
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Post by slowfreight on Jul 21, 2020 17:57:56 GMT -8
Got word mine is in the mail. I resisted ordering as I have 2 P2K units slated to become C&NW. But I looked on the website at the wrong time on the wrong day and was able to snag a sound-equipped unit last week. It has to beat this after weathering: I still think those KATO flexicoils are the best rendered. Those are actually the stock P2K sideframes, with the offending details hacked off and replaced with parts from a Detail Associates replacement sideframe kit, originally meant for the Bachmann SD45s. I planned to make it Kato powered, but the factory mechanism is a brick of metal and I've been able to get it to MU with my Kato SD40. Sorry...don't have a better photo handy.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 18:01:48 GMT -8
I guess I could photograph it. This is a good look at the top of the doors.
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Post by sknorcal on Jul 21, 2020 18:10:12 GMT -8
The doors fo Dash 2 series GP and SD series are different than the doors on the non Dash 2 series. The doors of Dash 2 sit proud of the surrounding material between the doors. The SD45 and other non Dash 2 engines have filler pieces between the doors that are the same thickness as the doors. You should just see a small gap between doors and between the doors and filler pieces. The rendering of this with a “groove” is correct. The actual gap is about 1/4” or less so rendering this so this should be less than .002” I’ll reserve judgement on the width of this groove until I get mine. Dave Hussey Thank you for the explanation Dave. I was indeed comparing to a photo of a dash 2 loco... My bad. I am relieved to hear that ScaleTrain's research was more thorough than my own.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 21, 2020 18:11:39 GMT -8
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Post by fishbelly on Jul 21, 2020 18:22:02 GMT -8
What is a good photo hosting site?
I have a good closeup of what Dave is referring to. The the gap between the filler strip and the door edge is about 3/16" wide. It is slightly narrower than the round portion on the door hinge. The door hinge is approximately centered over the gap.
I find the ScaleTrains representation of this to be very acceptable.
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sp3205
Junior Member
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Post by sp3205 on Jul 21, 2020 18:25:50 GMT -8
Some prototype C&NW - seems right, hard to make out Brian Rutherford photo
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Post by sknorcal on Jul 21, 2020 18:38:46 GMT -8
I guess I could photograph it. This is a good look at the top of the doors.
Thank you for posting this photo Matt. This greatly clarifies the features which I mis-characterized as "grooves" around the doors. This photo clearly shows construction much more in line with that described by Dave and other members.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Jul 21, 2020 22:54:18 GMT -8
What is a good photo hosting site? Imgur or Flickr.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 22, 2020 3:26:05 GMT -8
Some prototype C&NW - seems right, hard to make out Brian Rutherford photo
That's about as perfect a detail photo as one might ask for.
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Post by grabirons on Jul 23, 2020 10:37:23 GMT -8
Some prototype C&NW - seems right, hard to make out Brian Rutherford photo
I'm going to get dumped on a lot for this suggestion, but here it goes. Since the prototype doors don't stand off as much as usually depicted on our models I think a new approach is needed. I suppose it might look sort of cheesy, but what if the lines/areas were pad printed on or the edges printed to enhance the gaps? Keep the molded on latches & hinges. Sorta like they do with some models where the grab irons are molded on but they paint them a different color than the body to give the appearance of being separate. The windows gaskets on locomotives and passenger cars come to mind. Look at the above photo for reference. Black/greyish outlines. It would have be a very superior thin outline with laser quality printing. The printed on outlines could be done either in black or a lighter color. Not all areas between doors would be printed, just the outlines of the doors. If done correctly by a scale manufacturer, i think it could be pulled off to look very good.
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 23, 2020 11:48:12 GMT -8
I'm going to get dumped on a lot for this suggestion, but here it goes. Since the prototype doors don't stand off as much as usually depicted on our models I think a new approach is needed. I suppose it might look sort of cheesy, but what if the lines/areas were pad printed on or the edges printed to enhance the gaps? Keep the molded on latches & hinges. Sorta like they do with some models where the grab irons are molded on but they paint them a different color than the body to give the appearance of being separate. The windows gaskets on locomotives and passenger cars come to mind. Look at the above photo for reference. Black/greyish outlines. It would have be a very superior thin outline with laser quality printing. The printed on outlines could be done either in black or a lighter color. Not all areas between doors would be printed, just the outlines of the doors. If done correctly by a scale manufacturer, i think it could be pulled off to look very good. I generally tend to like the Scale Trains approach (at least as seen in the photos posted here) but I will say that I think the "groove" between the doors is much too wide. Compare with the prototype photo above. I bet the Scale Trains "groove" is a good 1/2-inch wide.
I was tempted to take a ruler to work with me this evening and measure some actual hood door "gaps", but obviously any relationship between present-day locomotive hood doors and a real SD45 are purely coincidental... As was mentioned earlier in the thread, the doors changed with the Dash-2 series (more overlap to seal out dirt, etc, most likely).
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Post by markfj on Jul 23, 2020 14:28:09 GMT -8
I’m not expecting another full review, but I’m interested in hearing Elizabeth’s comments on this model when she gets hers. Those springs on the ST trucks really draw my attention. Is that prototypical? I have yet to find a good picture of a SD45 truck that is close up or well lit. These photos below are pretty good, but that area of the truck is in shadow on both. Thanks, Mark
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Post by bigblow69 on Jul 23, 2020 15:04:53 GMT -8
Well I got my C&NW's yesterday and got around to opening them today. They are simply gorgeous. Sorry I couldn't afford more of them right now. Eagerly await UP and Milw versions.
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Post by fishbelly on Jul 23, 2020 15:20:20 GMT -8
......and here you go.
I have loads more detail photos.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 23, 2020 15:54:19 GMT -8
Even though it's not my primary focus (D&RGW), where I grew up SP SD45s were iconic power in the Sacramento area. I've got two SP coming in the next day or two.
Hopefully ScaleTrains won't take forever to do the more common versions with the L-shape windshield and high mount brake cylinders. And naturally DRGW SD45s. Prices tend to rise as we wait for future runs after all.
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Post by packer on Jul 23, 2020 17:43:30 GMT -8
I’m wanting a BN version as they appeared in the late-70s early-80s. Idk what needs to be changed to bring the BNs on the next run up to spec (aside from the cut levers)
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 23, 2020 20:00:31 GMT -8
Why bother? I have no doubt that ScaleTrains will do those versions soon.
And I'll get some of them, too.
Ed
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 23, 2020 21:39:24 GMT -8
......and here you go.
I have loads more detail photos. That's a great set of pics. The spring does seem more prominent. Also, the curves of the truck, not sure what's going on. Compare these two pics. Wish there was some way to make one of the pics semi transparent and overlay it on top of the other. Look over the center journal. (Would actually be neat to see all the HO truck versions (ST, Athearn original & Genesis, Proto/Walthers, etc) The ST looks more "angular", not as much as a GE, but not as fluid as the EMD. It's as if the drafter did the truck as all straight lines and connected them with simple curves. The GE shows more angularity and simple curves Not bad, but a subtlety that caught my eye.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 23, 2020 22:03:52 GMT -8
I’m not expecting another full review, but I’m interested in hearing Elizabeth’s comments on this model when she gets hers. Those springs on the ST trucks really draw my attention. Is that prototypical? I have yet to find a good picture of a SD45 truck that is close up or well lit. These photos below are pretty good, but that area of the truck is in shadow on both. Thanks, Mark Only Pennsy (& PC) could give Espee a run for the money when it came to dirty locomotives. All that deferred maintenance turned the tracks into a mud-ballasted mess. There'd be some sand from going up the mountain, but mostly it was just mud. Stayed that way until the 80's when Conrail started making enough money to patch up trackage.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 23, 2020 23:03:14 GMT -8
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 24, 2020 3:59:52 GMT -8
Indeed. The Scale Trains spring isn't set back far enough.
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Post by bobelliott on Jul 24, 2020 4:01:53 GMT -8
After reading Bigblow's comment, I decided to buy the first two scale trains models that I have ever bought. Two cnw non dynamic sd45. I wanted one of those for a long time and someone finally made them. Hearing that they look gorgeous was the tipping point for me. I need two new engines like I need about a dozen new holes in my head, but hey what the heck it's only money and we all know that we can't take it with us.
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Post by markfj on Jul 24, 2020 5:15:49 GMT -8
Thanks for posting those photos fishbelly! Ok, I think I see what is going on with the ST truck. Since they opted to mold the spring detail it seems they had to move it forward (thus making the spring more visible). Other manufacturers didn’t include the spring and just have an open void. Proto Kato I’m going to order one of the undecorated kits and see if I can model an extended cab Reading unit. I doubt ST will be molding a separate cab for just one road and only 5 units. Thanks, Mark
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Post by csxt8400 on Jul 24, 2020 5:57:59 GMT -8
That old proto truck was a little shallow but represented very well. The KATO is the only manufacturer to replicate the casting roughage and mold lines. Good looking trucks.
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Post by TBird1958 on Jul 24, 2020 7:12:42 GMT -8
Interesting that the WC unit has Dofasco trucks on it, not knowing it's heritage I'm wondering how that happened.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 24, 2020 7:41:16 GMT -8
Interesting that the WC unit has Dofasco trucks on it, not knowing it's heritage I'm wondering how that happened. GMLG/GMD in London, Ontario did build Canadian SD40's, so it's possible Dofasco was used as an alternate supplier for LaGrange when things got busy. Just a guess. www.american-rails.com/gmd.htmlETA: looking at the WC roster, they had a bunch of ex-CN GMD SD40's and an ACR unit so may have been a simple truck swap. rrpicturearchives.net/locoList.aspx?id=WC&Page=1
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Post by markfj on Jul 24, 2020 7:44:17 GMT -8
Does the ST kit come with sloped and square bearing journal boxes like PRR #6152 above has?
Thanks, Mark
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 24, 2020 8:02:37 GMT -8
Interesting that the WC unit has Dofasco trucks on it, not knowing it's heritage I'm wondering how that happened. Probably got its trucks swapped with one of the ex-Algoma Central SD40s for any number of reasons...
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