ScaleTrains SD45

[fishbelly]

Today at about 1pm I received my shipment of four ScaleTrains SD45's. Thankfully I work from home now so they were not sitting out in the sitting out in the heat waiting for me to come home from work. The truck pulled up and they came right into the house.

No doubt I was excited to open them up and see what they looked like. My first impression. Oh, these are beautiful models. Virgin undecorated models. Naturally I could not just sit here and drool over them because I had to get my real work done. After work was done, I took the time to really poor over them. This is my honest assessment of the new Scale Trains Undecorated SD45. I will not go over the operational quality of the model. I am not concerned about that and so far I have not read any bad reviews on any ScaleTrains operation aspects. What I do like about the frame and frame setup. It is heavy and I do not have to modify ANYTHIng for sound or lighting. I do not even have to modify the frame for any model detail work that happens under the deck. 

PROS:
- I am not going to go over the absolute prototype dimensional correctness. I will say looking at photos and pictures I have taken myself that the model appears to be dead on for size. I am 100% good with it.  

- Packaging is excellent. I love these hard boxes. If I do not put the model back into the box, I can use the boxes for parts storage.

- The tooling is EXCELLENT. Very minimal mold parting line cleanup. There are no egregious parting lines that are offset. These are normal can't get away from mold parting lines. Again, very easy cleanup. The truck side frames are very well rendered. I love the look of heft they give. I really like the look of the DB grills too. Individually molded grills to give good depth.

- The design for how the model assembles is EXCELLENT. The tabbing of the walkway to the shell is snug without any gaps between the walkway and shell. The way ST designed how the cab ad sub-base assembles is great as well. It screws down to the deck with a nice tight positive fit. I really do like the design for how the headlight and rear light fit into their respective light housing assemblies. Excellent work.

- Now I was going to put this as a con, but it is not after I saw what kind of glue they used. The nose class lights were glued in. One was not set in all the way either and I was really disappointed in this. Then I found out when I took a chisel knife to it that the glue was a type of thin vinyl adhesive. Very soft and it pulled up easily nd I was able to get the class lights out. Very happy about that.

- The handrails in the parts baggies are straight. No waviness and no curvature. All the parts are cut off their trees and as mentioned earlier, minimal cleanup. The detail parts look excellent. The quality of the molding is excellent as well as the detail level. The radiator grills are separate pieces. The truck bearing caps are separate pieces. Simply put, it is a model kit. 

CONS:

- The class lights are rendered in an oval shape. Not that big of a deal and most likely not noticeable when the model is finished. In undecorated form and close inspection it is there. Not a game changer though.

- The track side frames show a little to much bolster spring. Again, not something many would really notice and again not a game changer. They still look really well. 

- As an undecorated model, NOTHING should be glued on. The number board section on the cab face had two pins glued. I had to snap those two pins, but again it is nothing bad. They part is going to be glued back on anyway, so breaking two pins is no big deal. Should not be glued on though. If they need to glue it on to hold it in place, they should use the same glue as they used for their nose class light glass.


OVERALL RATING: 99.9% The cons really do not detract from the overall model quality. 

The ScaleTrains undecorated SD45 model is an excellent choice for anyone wanting to build and paint their own models. The parts are all really well rendered with only the usual modeling cleanup of parting lines that needs to be done. The fit/ assembly of the shell and parts is excellent. It is like having a quality static plastic model kit to build. All the parts are there and you only need to assemble them. ST does not offer a one model fits all, so make sure you get the correct undecorated prototype for the model you want to build or at least the model that best represents your prototype. For instance. ST does not offer the prototype I want to build, so I chose the undecorated PRR version because it was the closest to what I needed for my build.

The prototype I chose to build will require some plastic surgery. I wish it was different, but unfortunately there is no way around it if I want to get these four units right. Three are the same and one is a bit different.

I really have no need for any SD45's, but I have never built an SD45 and wanted to give the new ST model a try. I am very happy with my purchase and I am looking forward to building these four units. I have already disassemble the first one and making the necessary fixtures to hold the shell and cab so I can do the surgery.

[edwardsutorik]

Thanks for the review!

I've got three BN ones coming in the next batch. They are so iconic for early BN power. Well, for early NEW power.

I am really looking forward to seeing them pull a train.



Ed

[fishbelly]

Jul 20, 2020 16:47:26 GMT -8 edwardsutorik said:

Thanks for the review!

I've got three BN ones coming in the next batch. They are so iconic for early BN power. Well, for early NEW power.

I am really looking forward to seeing them pull a train.



Ed

Ed,

I just want to make it clear. My review is of the undecorated models. Decorated models of course use the same excellent tooling, but are subject someone else painting and assembling them.

[edwardsutorik]

Yes, I saw that.

Ed

[fishbelly]

Jul 20, 2020 17:29:44 GMT -8 edwardsutorik said:

Yes, I saw that.

Ed

Cool, I did not want any misunderstandings.

What is good though is how the model assembles. If there is any fitment issues, it is most likely to much paint. You can disassemble the model and scrape any paint away to get the cab and or sub base to fit down properly. The design of this model for how it assembles is very well done. 

[cera2254]

I have a C&NW version on the way, looking forward to it.

[slowfreight]

Got word mine is in the mail. I resisted ordering as I have 2 P2K units slated to become C&NW. But I looked on the website at the wrong time on the wrong day and was able to snag a sound-equipped unit last week.

It has to beat this after weathering:

[thebessemerkid]

I'd like to see pics of the undec, since ST only provides line drawings of it. Particularly interested in the marker lights & trucks, since you mentioned them.

Brian Banna I think said the best SD45 (at the time) would have been a Proto shell on an Athearn Chassis. Walthers/Proto supposedly reworked their trucks when they went to the 14:1 helical gear drive, so don't know how that would compare to the Athearn.

Maybe someone can do side by sides of ST vs Proto vs Athearn? (Athearn for the trucks mainly)

[markfj]

Great write up fishbelly! Interesting comment about the class lights being “oval”. I checked some online photos and sure enough it does look like those lights are slightly oval (wider in width). Wonder what happened there? It's odd that bit of detail did not get molded perfectly.

If I get one of these models down the road, I’ll likely go for an undecorated kit and see if I can replace the nose with a Cannon one.

Thanks, Mark

[edwardsutorik]

Jul 21, 2020 3:46:51 GMT -8 markfj said:

Great write up fishbelly! Interesting comment about the class lights being “oval”. I checked some online photos and sure enough it does look like those lights are slightly oval (wider in width). Wonder what happened there? It's odd that bit of detail did not get molded perfectly.

First thought would be that the data used to cut the mold for the class light feature was based on looking at the nose head-on, rather than at the angle of the nose panel.


Ed

[thebessemerkid]

Jul 21, 2020 3:46:51 GMT -8 markfj said:

Great write up fishbelly! Interesting comment about the class lights being “oval”. I checked some online photos and sure enough it does look like those lights are slightly oval (wider in width). Wonder what happened there? It's odd that bit of detail did not get molded perfectly.

If I get one of these models down the road, I’ll likely go for an undecorated kit and see if I can replace the nose with a Cannon one.

Thanks, Mark

We shouldn't even have to think about putting a Cannon nose on a $275 ($339 "list")  sound / $185 ($230 "list") DC locomotive.

Don't know if the pics ST posted were preprototypes or something, but sure enough, there are the googly eyes markers on the nose along with mold parting lines:



www.scaletrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/RC-PRR-6144-Roster_2118-wm.jpg

I compare that with a $135 MSRP (~$100-110 Street) DC Athearn SD45 and the Athearn nose looks better: (Athearn DCC/Sound are $140 street, see Lombard)

www.athearn.com/ProdInfo/LargeImages/ATH98056.jpg

No mold parting lines. Marker lights look normal.


The Genesis SDP45 & SD45-2 are even better

www.athearn.com/ProdInfo/LargeImages/ATHG67236.jpg

That EL SD45-2 DCC/sound was $270 list ($200-225 street), new ones are $300 list ($230 street). Geez, some w snd/DCC are $180 at Trainworld: www.trainworld.com/manufacturers/athearn/genesis-ho-scale/athearn-athearn-athearn-diesel-engines-1/sd45-2/

Anyway, for the companies that are pushing the upper limits on pricing, stuff should be darn near perfect. I really need to see more pics before considering these. Not just the generic 3/4 wedge shot. I could have counted on great pics from Overland but they got dumped as a dealer. 

The C39-8 had lots of great pics. Now we get a couple or only a line drawing.

www.scaletrains.com/product/rivet-counter-ho-scale-ge-c39-8-norfolk-southern/

Used to be able to see all the thumbnails at once. Now it's been changed to a useless slideshow swipe-endlessly mess. Whoever made that change did ST no favors. Anyway there were 30-40 pics, great pics, closeups from all angles. Now it's 2 or 3 pics from the same angle. Since we can't see the models in most hobbyshops, we have to rely on pictures.

Some pics of the Proto SD45, again, the nose and markers appear normal

tinyurl.com/yypvxtl5

tinyurl.com/y5p2dbf9

[markfj]

Ed that seems like a very plausible explanation for the shape of the marker lights.

Bessermkid: I see your point. When the ST SD45 was announced I was all set to preorder, but I’m glad I waited. The mold lines aren’t a deal breaker; they’re just something I prefer to fix. And now that I know about the oval marker lights, I’ll definitely be giving the model a Cannon nose job when I get one.

You would think that with all the great technology out there today (e.g. CAD, CNC, etc.) mold lines would not be an issue or at least not so noticeable.

Thanks, Mark

[fishbelly]

First off, no matter how well the tooling is made, you are not going to get away from parting lines. The quality of the tooling will reduce the amount of parting line, but there will ALWAYS be a parting line. Proof of that is the HIGHLINERS shell. That is super high quality tooling and there is a hint of where the molds parted. If you paint it (Highliners shell) without cleaning it up, the parting line WILL show. So parting lines are always going to be there. The mold lines on the ST SD45 are very well done. They are not at all bad. Removing them on an undecorated model will not at all change the contour of the model.

There are three options with the class lights.

1. Leave them as they are. Not really noticeable unless you really get up close on them. Operating distances and they are not noticeable at all.

2. Replace the front nose piece with a Cannon nose piece. Not the whole nose, but just the very front. Problem with this fix is you loose the clips that hold the shell to the deck. Alternatively, when the model is done. Gluing the shell to the deck should not be an issue. What reason would we need to remove the deck from the shell for? I can only think of one and that is if you build a model that uses ditch lights. 

3. Drill out the class lights and replace them with the class lights from a Cannon nose kit.

With options 2 and 3 you will most likely not be able to reuse the ST class light lens. The ST clear lens is slightly oval to fit the oval hole as well as angled with the angle of the nose. To use the Cannon parts, you would need remake the clear class light lens. This can be done by mushrooming the end of some fiber optics. 

I'll cross the class light threshold when I get to working on the hood. The long hood end is the same.

Still overall for an undecorated model. It is a high class piece of work. I am still very happy with my purchase and would buy them again if I needed more.

Usually I put new models on the shelf and get back to them later on. With these though I have stopped all my other projects, cleaned up my bench and started construction of these four.

[TBird1958]

Thanks for the review - I find it far more more useful to read your honest and obviously informed comments about this model than I would a YT video. As a modeler it appreciated, I'll wait until ST does some D&RGW units before buying any, but at this point I'm confident in the quality - I already know they'll be great running units.

[Deleted]

My two C&NW undecs came yesterday and I'll post pics tonight after work if no one else gets to it first. I did a double take after the first post about the marker lights since it doesn't jump out at you, but on closer inspection it does look like they're slightly oval....nothing that bothers me though.

[cannon]

Since the class lights are round on a 25 degree surface, of course they appear oval (elliptical) when viewed straight on. The constraints of the mold pull direction (straight forward) for the front require that the core pin that produces the hole makes a hole that is elliptical when viewed relative to the angled surface.
The Cannon nose produces a round hole, but that is due to a parting line trick Gordon Cannon used for those holes. That is possible since the way both sides of the front are parted, which is different for just a front vs a full shell.
Apparently this has not been a deal breaker for the same EMD nose on the ScaleTrains SD40-2 or SD40T-2 or the villagers would have taken torches and pitchforks to the streets for those too.
I’m perfectly willing to sell nose kits.

PS I have no intention to replace mine when they arrive.
Dave Hussey
Cannon and Company

[riogrande]

Jul 21, 2020 7:33:04 GMT -8 TBird1958 said:

Thanks for the review - I find it far more more useful to read your honest and obviously informed comments about this model than I would a YT video. As a modeler it appreciated, I'll wait until ST does some D&RGW units before buying any, but at this point I'm confident in the quality - I already know they'll be great running units.

Hopefully the 3rd run! Question is will ST do the small or large herald version or both in a run.

[sp3205]

Jul 20, 2020 23:59:45 GMT -8 thebessemerkid said:

Brian Banna I think said the best SD45 (at the time) would have been a Proto shell on an Athearn Chassis. Walthers/Proto supposedly reworked their trucks when they went to the 14:1 helical gear drive, so don't know how that would compare to the Athearn.

Well, having done six SD45s that way, I can compare when the one I ordered arrives.  Though I'm pretty sure the ST edition will more than hold its own!

Elizabeth

[fishbelly]

Jul 20, 2020 23:59:45 GMT -8 thebessemerkid said:

I'd like to see pics of the undec, since ST only provides line drawings of it. Particularly interested in the marker lights & trucks, since you mentioned them.

Brian Banna I think said the best SD45 (at the time) would have been a Proto shell on an Athearn Chassis. Walthers/Proto supposedly reworked their trucks when they went to the 14:1 helical gear drive, so don't know how that would compare to the Athearn.

Maybe someone can do side by sides of ST vs Proto vs Athearn? (Athearn for the trucks mainly)

The Athearn truck side frames beat the proto truck in the sense that the Athearn truck side frames are cast from glue-able styrene. The Proto truck is made from delrin or celcon. So the Athearn truck allows for easy modification.

At the time the comment was made about the best SD45 being a combination of models,  the ST model was not available. I would have to say the ST model now is the best option for any SD45. Especially since the shells are road specific. From the ones I have it appears building any version is as easy as building a static model kit. With one exception. The prototype I am choosing to build.  There is no way ST is going to do these two versions. 

[Deleted]

Jul 21, 2020 9:51:39 GMT -8 sp3205 said:

Jul 20, 2020 23:59:45 GMT -8 thebessemerkid said:

Brian Banna I think said the best SD45 (at the time) would have been a Proto shell on an Athearn Chassis. Walthers/Proto supposedly reworked their trucks when they went to the 14:1 helical gear drive, so don't know how that would compare to the Athearn.

Well, having done six SD45s that way, I can compare when the one I ordered arrives.  Though I'm pretty sure the ST edition will more than hold its own!

Elizabeth

I look forward to the comparison!

[Deleted]

In my opinion not a deal breaker.  Parts breakdown on the undecs is pretty similar to what you'd find with an Athearn. 

[csxt8400]

Jul 20, 2020 20:32:36 GMT -8 slowfreight said:

Got word mine is in the mail. I resisted ordering as I have 2 P2K units slated to become C&NW. But I looked on the website at the wrong time on the wrong day and was able to snag a sound-equipped unit last week.

It has to beat this after weathering:

I still think those KATO flexicoils are the best rendered.

[thebessemerkid]

Jul 21, 2020 9:51:39 GMT -8 sp3205 said:

Jul 20, 2020 23:59:45 GMT -8 thebessemerkid said:

Brian Banna I think said the best SD45 (at the time) would have been a Proto shell on an Athearn Chassis. Walthers/Proto supposedly reworked their trucks when they went to the 14:1 helical gear drive, so don't know how that would compare to the Athearn.

Well, having done six SD45s that way, I can compare when the one I ordered arrives.  Though I'm pretty sure the ST edition will more than hold its own!

Elizabeth

That SP unit is beautiful.

[thebessemerkid]

Jul 21, 2020 13:57:05 GMT -8 @mrb56 said:

In my opinion not a deal breaker.  Parts breakdown on the undecs is pretty similar to what you'd find with an Athearn. 

Thank you for the very clear detail photos!

[thebessemerkid]

Had a hunch about something...

The round hatch covers on the nose look oblong too



Which should tell anyone who has done 3D cad work how this happened... 

[Chad]

Hatch covers are round and the class lights I mean you would need a micrometer to tell if even that would be enough. None issue.

[sknorcal]

Jul 21, 2020 13:57:05 GMT -8 @mrb56 said:

In my opinion not a deal breaker.  Parts breakdown on the undecs is pretty similar to what you'd find with an Athearn. 

Thank you for posting these excellent photos.

It looks like ScaleTrains has chosen to render the edges of the hood doors as grooves all the way around instead of properly overlapping the underlying surface.  (Notice the grooves on the hinge side of the doors.)
I hope my eyes are deceiving me on this; it would be very disappointing if they tooled grooves all the way around the doors--not correct at all.  They got it right on their SD40-2/T-2, so why would they change the way that they execute the doors on this model?

[Deleted]

It’s hard to tell from the photos and I don’t know how well I’d be able to photograph it, but the doors are overlaid on top of the side but the reason it looks like grooves is because the skinny panels between doors are also overlaid on top the side. Whether or not that prototypical, I don’t know, but the lips are there, they’re just very very fine. The only true groove on the sides appears to be the one at the bottom of the doors.

[cannon]

Jul 21, 2020 16:44:23 GMT -8 sknorcal said:

Jul 21, 2020 13:57:05 GMT -8 @mrb56 said:

In my opinion not a deal breaker. 
It looks like ScaleTrains has chosen to render the edges of the hood doors as grooves all the way around instead of properly overlapping the underlying surface.  (Notice the grooves on the hinge side of the doors.)
I hope my eyes are deceiving me on this; it would be very disappointing if they tooled grooves all the way around the doors--not correct at all.  They got it right on their SD40-2/T-2, so why would they change the way that they execute the doors on this model?

The doors fo Dash 2 series GP and SD series are different than the doors on the non Dash 2 series. The doors of Dash 2 sit proud of the surrounding material between the doors. The SD45 and other non Dash 2 engines have filler pieces between the doors that are the same thickness as the doors. You should just see a small gap between doors and between the doors and filler pieces. The rendering of this with a “groove” is correct. The actual gap is about 1/4” or less so rendering this so this should be less than .002”
I’ll reserve judgement on the width of this groove until I get mine.

Dave Hussey

[Deleted]

Jul 21, 2020 17:26:56 GMT -8 cannon said:

Jul 21, 2020 16:44:23 GMT -8 sknorcal said:

The doors fo Dash 2 series GP and SD series are different than the doors on the non Dash 2 series. The doors of Dash 2 sit proud of the surrounding material between the doors. The SD45 and other non Dash 2 engines have filler pieces between the doors that are the same thickness as the doors. You should just see a small gap between doors and between the doors and filler pieces. The rendering of this with a “groove” is correct. The actual gap is about 1/4” or less so rendering this so this should be less than .002”
I’ll reserve judgement on the width of this groove until I get mine.

Dave Hussey

Bingo, thanks for the explanation Dave, that’s what I’m seeing in person but I didn’t know how to describe it. When viewing from the top or bottom it’s clear both the doors and filler plates are raised and the gap between them is what’s causing the appearance of a groove.