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Post by edgecrusher on Sept 10, 2020 13:10:56 GMT -8
Having a very small switching layout, I decided a long time ago that I'll be using Sargent couplers for any of the equipment on the layout. To me they simply look better and add an extra step in operation needed to keep a small layout interesting. Most of the time I find that the Sargents drop in with very little effort. I should have known that getting them into a Kadee car wouldn't be so easy. I have probably a half dozen Kadee cars but had never bothered opening them up as I'm sure 95% modelers don't. The car in question here is the 50' PS1 with the spiffy functioning cushion underframe. So follow along as we put some Sargent couplers where they were never intended to go. And I'll hope that the whole car doesn't just burst into flames when I get it done.
An interesting design. As you can imagine, a Sargent won't just drop onto that post. (Don't worry I clean the paint off the wheels as a final step.)
The two side by side.
My initial thought was to slice the whole "post" right off. But then I considered the effort that would go into centering, drilling & tapping a piece of solid round styrene. Upon further brain storming I found that I had some brass tubing that had the perfect I.D. to clear the threads for the coupler pocket and the perfect O.D. for the Sargent to pivot on.
With some careful carving and lots of filing the brass ring fits very nicely over the threaded part for the cover.
Test fit seems pretty good.
A little clean up & some graphite.
And there it is, probably the last thing the folks at Kadee wanted. But it better fits my needs now. Amazingly enough the height was spot on as well.
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Post by riogrande on Sept 10, 2020 13:38:45 GMT -8
You are forgiven my son. After all Sargent's are the holy of holies.
I will never be worthy. I have only attained the most common religion of Kadees. Please forgive me.
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Post by SOMECALLMETIM on Sept 10, 2020 14:05:06 GMT -8
Yep, toss those Kadee couplers. I have two of the kits with the cushion underframe and will be saving your methods as a reference. Looks great.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Sept 10, 2020 14:15:13 GMT -8
Thought this was gonna be installing MTH "working" couplers on a Proto87 car.
o/t an Ingalls 4-s would not even need couplers, as cars would be irresistibly drawn to its incomparable countenance.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 10, 2020 14:37:05 GMT -8
I thought the ultimate coupler sin was putting the couplers in upside down (actually pretty easy with Sergents).
Probably comes from watching Engineer Bill when I was a lad.
VERY nice write-up. I, too, will do a "save for later".
Ed
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 10, 2020 14:39:04 GMT -8
Thought this was gonna be installing MTH "working" couplers on a Proto87 car. o/t an Ingalls 4-s would not even need couplers, as cars would be irresistibly drawn to its incomparable countenance. And when you had to drop a car, you could just cover the front of the Ingalls with a sheet. I've heard it's very easy to trick a freight car. Passenger cars, not so much. Ed
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Post by fr8kar on Sept 10, 2020 15:16:58 GMT -8
I have a couple cars with that type of coupler center post, but I can't remember what they were. I ran into the same problem but just used my chisel to carve down the post to a cylindrical shape. I didn't think of using brass tube over it. That's a clever solution and nice work to boot!
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Post by nsfantodd on Sept 10, 2020 16:51:43 GMT -8
I have a couple cars with that type of coupler center post, but I can't remember what they were. I ran into the same problem but just used my chisel to carve down the post to a cylindrical shape. I didn't think of using brass tube over it. That's a clever solution and nice work to boot! I did the same, chiseled the post down to a cylindrical post. The brass tube is nicer way to do it. I dont own any Kadee cars, I think it was an Intermountain reefer I was modifying. Same couple setup, if I remember correctly.
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Post by markfj on Sept 10, 2020 17:43:13 GMT -8
Very nice and probably the only practical way to do it! Cutting off the original post would create all kinds of headaches. Like you said, a new post would have to be glued in place and likely become a failure point given how little area of the frame would be bonded to the new post. Incidentally, if you do decide to give that approach a try, I recommend getting Cypox to glue the post to the Delrin frame. I broke off a coupler pocket from a cushioned underframe on a Kadee car a while ago and tried Cypox for the repair. It is supposed to bond Delrin, and I’ll be darned, it works! Thanks, Mark J. Reading, PA
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Post by 12bridge on Sept 10, 2020 18:31:34 GMT -8
Sergents are cool, but I am so glad I never got on that bandwagon, especially since most of them have been out of stock for some time now.
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sd50f
Full Member
Posts: 101
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Post by sd50f on Sept 10, 2020 18:56:39 GMT -8
And here I thought the ultimate coupler sin was keeping the plastic spring couplers on a car when you have Kadees or Sergents sitting on your workbench.
Timothy Dineen
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Post by lvrr325 on Sept 10, 2020 19:04:21 GMT -8
I thought the ultimate coupler sin was putting the couplers in upside down (actually pretty easy with Sergents). Probably comes from watching Engineer Bill when I was a lad. VERY nice write-up. I, too, will do a "save for later". Ed I half expected him to have to put X2F's or even Baker couplers on something.
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Post by fr8kar on Sept 10, 2020 19:11:21 GMT -8
Sergents are cool, but I am so glad I never got on that bandwagon, especially since most of them have been out of stock for some time now. I think that's a temporary problem. Maybe not available from Frank directly, but from others who are printing the freely available CAD files. I still buy the Es and SBEs from Sergent. I just finished assembling another 144 pack of Es yesterday. I figure one more 144 pack of the SBEs and I'll be set for awhile.
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Post by drolsen on Sept 10, 2020 20:08:51 GMT -8
I have probably a half dozen Kadee cars but had never bothered opening them up as I'm sure 95% modelers don't. Apparently I’m part of the 5%! It’s been a long time, but I took a couple apart years ago to clip the trip pins off the couplers. It wasn’t completely necessary, but I want to see what they looked like inside and just found it easier to clip them off after taking the couplers out. It’s been a long time, but I think I may have actually popped the cover off accidentally the first time while trying to clip the trip pin. This was a few years before I considered converting to Sergents, back when the Kadee cars still came with the larger #5 sized coupler heads. Thanks a lot for sharing the photos. That’s a great technique that I’ll have to use soon when I convert a coupler 50’ PS-1s. I had thought about trying narrow shank Sergents, thinking it would just require rounding the mounting pin, but I haven’t tested the idea. Dave
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Sept 10, 2020 22:48:28 GMT -8
I figure one more 144 pack of the SBEs and I'll be set for awhile. Ha! Couplers and wheelsets. Each time I buy more I think that. And I always run out.
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Post by edgecrusher on Sept 11, 2020 10:08:17 GMT -8
Thanks for the interest guys. Usually when I come upon something like this I'll do a quick search here and around the net first. I presumed these cars had been out long enough that someone probably figured it out by now. I'm curious about popping open my other Kadee cars now and seeing whats going on in them. I forgot too add in the original post that the tube I used was K&S 1/8" brass tube. I don't recall the I.D. but I can measure it over the weekend.
Here is the frame back together and rightside up. If the humidity ever settles down here I can maybe even paint the shell.
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Post by gevohogger on Sept 11, 2020 10:20:14 GMT -8
I thought the ultimate coupler sin was putting the couplers in upside down (actually pretty easy with Sergents). Probably comes from watching Engineer Bill when I was a lad. VERY nice write-up. I, too, will do a "save for later". Ed I half expected him to have to put X2F's or even Baker couplers on something. I was thinking some sort of plastic coupler.... McHenry, Accurail, etc.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Sept 11, 2020 10:47:52 GMT -8
I half expected him to have to put X2F's or even Baker couplers on something. I was thinking some sort of plastic coupler.... McHenry, Accurail, etc. Talgo trucks, anyone?
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Post by markfj on Sept 11, 2020 12:09:41 GMT -8
Looks really good with the Sargent installed. And the added rail details on that switch look good too. But why no code 88 wheelsets?
Thanks, Mark J. Reading, PA
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Post by edgecrusher on Sept 14, 2020 7:13:58 GMT -8
Looks really good with the Sargent installed. And the added rail details on that switch look good too. But why no code 88 wheelsets? Thanks, Mark J. Reading, PA It'll happen eventually, Its a progression. I do have a few cars with them, I just have to take the pricey conversions slowly.
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Post by fr8kar on Sept 14, 2020 8:19:48 GMT -8
Looks really good with the Sargent installed. And the added rail details on that switch look good too. But why no code 88 wheelsets? Thanks, Mark J. Reading, PA It'll happen eventually, Its a progression. I do have a few cars with them, I just have to take the pricey conversions slowly. That's right. It's a marathon, not a sprint (that's what I keep telling myself).
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Post by brammy on Sept 14, 2020 8:35:00 GMT -8
I thought your ultimate sin was you were switching to horn-hook.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Sept 14, 2020 11:22:50 GMT -8
Looks really good with the Sargent installed. And the added rail details on that switch look good too. But why no code 88 wheelsets? Thanks, Mark J. Reading, PA It'll happen eventually, Its a progression. I do have a few cars with them, I just have to take the pricey conversions slowly. What I'm doing is only replacing them where they're especially visible: open end cars such as hoppers and tank cars, as well as under cabooses. Boxcars and gondolas where the trucks are hidden underneath get to keep the old fat wheels.
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Post by edgecrusher on Sept 14, 2020 11:56:38 GMT -8
That was my line of thought as well. Why use them where they won't be seen?
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Post by talltim on Sept 16, 2020 5:28:36 GMT -8
You American have nowhere near the worst couplings Compared to the real thing
(To be fair, that is a 35 year old model)
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Post by riogrande on Sept 16, 2020 6:05:33 GMT -8
The German couplings I've seen when over to Germany look similar appear to require manual coupling by extending a hook over a loop and then tightening it down on the collar with the buffers in tension. It seem very archaic and much more labor intensive. Unless I didn't see it right.
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Post by talltim on Sept 16, 2020 6:20:11 GMT -8
The German couplings I've seen when over to Germany look similar appear to require manual coupling by extending a hook over a loop and then tightening it down on the collar with the buffers in tension. It seem very archaic and much more labor intensive. Unless I didn't see it right. This type?
They couple automatically, but need a ramp betweenthe rails to uncouple without manual intervention. They are less visually intrusive than the UK tension locks (which to be fair are now smaller than they were) but still nothing like the prototype.
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Post by riogrande on Sept 16, 2020 7:08:05 GMT -8
The prototype couplers didn't look like that. The ones I saw were back in the early 90's and was a hook that would manually have to be put over the loop on the adjacent car and then tightened down.
Is the example in your picture a model coupler or a prototype coupler?
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Post by tillamook on Sept 16, 2020 11:20:22 GMT -8
Tim‘s picture is showing the standard european HO coupler. It has nothing to do with the prototype, which are, as you described, tension bars that have to be hooked manually to the other car before bringing it to tension. It‘s visible in Tim‘s prototype picture. There was an effort by the UIC to establish an automatic coupler in the 70s but conversion would have been too expensive for most railroads. However, knuckle couplers can be seen on german ore trains due to high towing weights. Also modern commuter trains use the Scharfenberg automatic coupler to combine EMUs.
European model train couplers in ho scale are REALLY far from being as standardized as in the USA. It is a real mess once you come to short couplering. There are norms (the NEM) but manufacturers don‘t really care, at least in Germany.
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Post by riogrande on Sept 16, 2020 11:30:10 GMT -8
Thanks for the info Jan. BTW, I found some icecream you might like!
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