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Post by middledivision on Jan 31, 2021 11:54:27 GMT -8
So what do they do with the ES44, and the Dash9 tooling? Keep some other dang fool from flooding the market with junk. The Gevo and Dash 9 are their better efforts, though not close to ST or Genesis. The SD70ace is not great, the GP35 is not great and the GP38 is junk with molded grabs. I wonder if they only were interested in the steam but MTH made them buy the diesels too.
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Post by mdvle on Jan 31, 2021 12:01:15 GMT -8
Two phases of a decent GP35 are there also, and a MILW Bipolar electric. Decent but not Scale Trains Rivet Counter quality. This is very disappointing.
How about, before making judgment, we wait to see what if any upgrades ScaleTrains.com does do the tooling and how exactly they slot this product into their product line?
Because even if not all of it ends up being Rivet Counter the additional product to sell generating additional cash flow can only be a good thing that will in turn give ScaleTrains more money to invest in new tooling.
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jan 31, 2021 12:02:03 GMT -8
Keep some other dang fool from flooding the market with junk. The Gevo and Dash 9 are their better efforts, though not close to ST or Genesis. The SD70ace is not great, the GP35 is not great and the GP38 is junk with molded grabs. I wonder if they only were interested in the steam but MTH made them buy the diesels too. Plenty of fodder for a "Kit Classics Locomotives"!
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Post by cf7 on Jan 31, 2021 12:02:53 GMT -8
I find this interesting since Fox Valley Models sells S scale flex track and turnouts...
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Frank
Full Member
Pulling for you!
Posts: 248
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Post by Frank on Jan 31, 2021 12:07:34 GMT -8
I find myself quite curious to see how these acquisitions fit into the ST product line, as admittedly I have never owned an MTH product to know the quality and detail levels. The GP35 and GP38 properly brought up to usual ST standards could be a source of infinite potential.
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Post by carrman on Jan 31, 2021 12:08:41 GMT -8
Decent but not Scale Trains Rivet Counter quality. This is very disappointing. How about, before making judgment, we wait to see what if any upgrades ScaleTrains.com does do the tooling and how exactly they slot this product into their product line? Because even if not all of it ends up being Rivet Counter the additional product to sell generating additional cash flow can only be a good thing that will in turn give ScaleTrains more money to invest in new tooling.
But it just killed the chances of a really nice GP35.
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Post by lars on Jan 31, 2021 12:19:11 GMT -8
Keep some other dang fool from flooding the market with junk. The Gevo and Dash 9 are their better efforts, though not close to ST or Genesis. The SD70ace is not great, the GP35 is not great and the GP38 is junk with molded grabs. I wonder if they only were interested in the steam but MTH made them buy the diesels too. They would also have to determine if there is enough interest to split the market with Rapido to justify upgrades to the PA and FA (FA-1 and 2 differences, notwithstanding) units. There's likely enough market to have two high-end F units out there, though. If not, they might have a permanent home as "Operator" locomotives.
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jan 31, 2021 12:32:08 GMT -8
How about, before making judgment, we wait to see what if any upgrades ScaleTrains.com does do the tooling and how exactly they slot this product into their product line? Because even if not all of it ends up being Rivet Counter the additional product to sell generating additional cash flow can only be a good thing that will in turn give ScaleTrains more money to invest in new tooling.
But it just killed the chances of a really nice GP35. Not entirely... I mean the MTH GP35 is not the greatest rendition of this locomotive, but it's also not the worst (arguably much better than the Athearn RTR GP35.)
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Post by trainworm on Jan 31, 2021 12:34:34 GMT -8
Go ahead and put me on the list for a complete scaletrains daylight consist
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Post by trainboyy on Jan 31, 2021 12:49:48 GMT -8
All I can say is that I hope this acquisition doesn't dumb down the accuracy of Scaletrains product line. Wasn't that long ago most MTH releases were lampooned for how toy like and inaccurate they were, and now one of the leading manufacturers has picked up the tooling for those same models. I hope this turns out well. In the video (or the Amherst stream, don't remember. They are slightly different), they mentioned that they will upgrade the current MTH tooling to meet Rivet Counter standards, at least in the case of the steam locomotives.
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Post by jbilbrey on Jan 31, 2021 12:53:43 GMT -8
LOL, I was wrong, way wrong, on this one. Hopefully, they will be able to fix the errors with the PRR H10, aka the "H9.5", and I am glad a lot of model railroaders will be glad to see the former MTH locomotives offered with DCC electronics instead of DCS.
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Post by packer on Jan 31, 2021 13:00:11 GMT -8
We’re MTH’s ore cars and 60’ flat decent to good? I only picked up some MTH flats cause they were mislabeled as intermountain.
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Post by railmodeltroy14 on Jan 31, 2021 13:42:22 GMT -8
I wish them much success especially with the steam locomotives and passenger cars which interest me for another steam excursion to fit into a modern-era ho scale railroad.
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Post by sd80mac on Jan 31, 2021 14:31:28 GMT -8
I agree with Shane's sentiments in the video announcement that most of the existing MTH HO steam is close to Rivet Counter level. These will be even better with ST motors and ESU electronics! I'm excited to see how ST upgrades these models as well, I don't think they will be content to release the Berkshires (for example) in all of the road names that MTH did. That model was technically only accurate for NKP, and even then it wasn't 100%. It sounds like they will be adding some Scaletrain's touches to these molds. Exciting times!
I also don't think I'd worry about this dragging Scaletrains down. They're serious about making accurate models. If they decide to run any of the existing MTH models as-is (like the GP38-2 or SD70ACe), my bet is that those would be offered in the Operator line, unless they had some serious improvements done.
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Post by mdvle on Jan 31, 2021 14:34:01 GMT -8
How about, before making judgment, we wait to see what if any upgrades ScaleTrains.com does do the tooling and how exactly they slot this product into their product line? Because even if not all of it ends up being Rivet Counter the additional product to sell generating additional cash flow can only be a good thing that will in turn give ScaleTrains more money to invest in new tooling.
But it just killed the chances of a really nice GP35.
I'm not sure how you get from ScaleTrains buying MTH to a really nice GP35 being dead.
Either ScaleTrains can upgrade the MTH tooling to Rivet Counter (in which case you have what you want), or they can't which means the market is still wide open. After all, its not like the existence of a Bachmann GP35 killed the chances.
Not to mention that somebody else may already be past the point of no return on a GP35 anyway, or may see an opportunity to grab a market while ScaleTrains is buy digesting the MTH purchase - because about the only thing that can be said with confidence is that ScaleTrains is going to struggle slightly as they attempt to double or more in size overnight (finding more space, hiring more staff, evaluating and otherwise dealing with all that new tooling is going to be difficult until the process is finished).
Or for that matter when ScaleTrains has scaled up to their new size (and I trust that they will succeed) maybe the additional revenue/cash flow means they create the dream GP35 model if the MTH tooling is found to be wanting.
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Post by mdvle on Jan 31, 2021 14:38:06 GMT -8
I also don't think I'd worry about this dragging Scaletrains down. They're serious about making accurate models.
This exactly.
While some may have issues with various aspects of ScaleTrains that one thing that almost everyone can agree on (almost because there will always be someone to disagree) is that they take creating accurate models seriously even if they may not always be as perfect as both they and us would like.
Accepting that, they are unlikely to have gone through with this unless they believed that it would improve ScaleTrains going forward.
So simply give them time to show us what they have planned.
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Post by bigblow69 on Jan 31, 2021 15:01:21 GMT -8
I was going to purchase the latest run of Little Joe's but I may rethink my acquisitions with this news. When Scale Trains decides to do them they will be only that much better. I do have two MTH Alleghenies that have been reworked with TSUNAMIS which are really good pullers.
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Post by fmilhaupt on Jan 31, 2021 15:16:53 GMT -8
I'll be interested to see what they can do with the MTH Berkshire tooling. IIRC, the original release pulled really well, though the pilot was only right for the NKP version.
The freight cars will need a lot of work, though. I bought one gondola to check out- the lettering was amateurishly bad and the corrugations on the ends looked like they had been laid out on an Etch-A-Sketch.
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Post by riogrande on Jan 31, 2021 15:19:59 GMT -8
The freight cars will need a lot of work, though. I bought one gondola to check out- the lettering was amateurishly bad and the corrugations on the ends looked like they had been laid out on an Etch-A-Sketch. I haven't seen any of the freight cars from MTH interesting to me. Steam fans will be interested in this change probably the most.
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Post by littlejoee76 on Jan 31, 2021 15:45:52 GMT -8
I was going to purchase the latest run of Little Joe's but I may rethink my acquisitions with this news. When Scale Trains decides to do them they will be only that much better. I do have two MTH Alleghenies that have been reworked with TSUNAMIS which are really good pullers. My thoughts exactly re the Joes. The Bipolar moldings/castings were very good but let down by fuzzy or inaccurate paint jobs. The electronics are very fragile and were fried after a couple of derailments and had to be replaced. The Joes need a lot more work- the carbody's more than a bit toylike. The chassis is execrable. The main trucks stay on the rails but the pony trucks attached to the (unprototypical) flexible pilot frame extensions are made out of some rubbery plastic that just isn't rigid enough to stay planted on the track, irrespective of leading or trailing. I know the extra articulation was meant to facilitate taking smaller curves but it doesn't do the job. I can get Alco and Overland Joes to cope with 30 inch radius curves (Peco code 75 for the record) with just a little fettling but my sole MTH Joe is a lemon. And it makes diesel noises. So does the Bipolar (I bought a pair of the "1955" livery, actually 50-53) but the "compressor" or whatever they thought they were doing can be switched off but leaves the horn and bell available, which I can live with. If they can do for the Joes what they did for Big Blow turbines with all the detail permutations... Neill Horton Cranleigh Surrey UK
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Post by mdvle on Jan 31, 2021 16:25:06 GMT -8
So if people go view James Wright's video (linked in on the first post of page 2 of this thread) he and Shane cover the MTH tooling just after the 10 minute point. - the steam and passenger stuff appears to be headed to Rivet Counter - diesel and freight cars they were fuzzy about River or Operator - MTH's planned locos, some will be continued, some maybe not - MTH had plans for 10 more steam era freight cars, they are likely to start appearing in 2022.
As for S scale (not really relevant to this forum), no comments on what they have planned, though I personally hope they drop the 3-rail/hi-rail stuff and concentrate on attempting to build an HO equivalent type market in S.
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Post by bncascadegreen on Jan 31, 2021 16:36:02 GMT -8
All I can say is that I hope this acquisition doesn't dumb down the accuracy of Scaletrains product line. Wasn't that long ago most MTH releases were lampooned for how toy like and inaccurate they were, and now one of the leading manufacturers has picked up the tooling for those same models. I hope this turns out well. I don’t think it will dumb down ST at all. I mean Athearn has upgraded some of the MDC Roundhouse product, the FMC hopper. I’ve never bought MTH only seen at hobby shops and would never buy their stuff. Kinda like Atlas locomotives. I’m hoping ST can come out with some of the locos Atlas does like the C40-8(W)s so I can finally get some and the B40, B39s cause atlas is more like toys to me not models
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Post by bncascadegreen on Jan 31, 2021 16:39:08 GMT -8
so i'm wondering if they got tooling for MTH HO operating crossing Signals? be nice to bring them back. Be like a toy, nothing like Derails West or BLMA and Atlas really was hoping ST would do something like the DW and BLMA and Atlas for signals so we could get more variety cause Atlas is slow AF!!!!
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Post by mdvle on Jan 31, 2021 16:56:53 GMT -8
James Wright posted a list on Facebook of what tooling he thought ScaleTrains had bought by looking at MTH catalogs, ScaleTrains reposted it on Facebook so it should be reasonably accurate:
Steam: - Challengers - Big Boy - GS-4 and GS-6 - Dreyfuss Hudson - Berkshires - Class J - Baldwin 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone - 9000 Class 4-12-2 - H10 2-8-0 Consolidation - USRA 2-8-2 Light Mikado - European Steam including the S 3/6 Express - NYC L-3 Mohawk - NYC L-4 Mohawk - Cab Forward AC-6 - H8 Allegheny - C&O 2-6-6-6 Allegheny - Triplex 2-8-8-8-2 Russian Iron - 4-6-4 Empire State Express
Electrics: - Little Joe - Bipolor
Diesels: - SD70ACe - ES44AC - Dash-9 - GP38-2 - Alco FA/FB-1 - Alco PA/PB - EMD F3 - EMD F7 - GG-1 - GP35 - 4500 HP Gas Turbine
Passenger: - heavyweight passenger cars including open deck observation - streamlined passenger cars including observation cars - NYC R-17 Subway Cars - NYC R-21 Subway Cars - NYC R-22 Subway Cars
Freight Cars - Ore Cars - R20-2 Woodside Reefers - 40' PS-1 Box car - USRA 55 ton steel twin hopper - 60' wood deck flat car - 70 ton mill gondolas - 70 ton quad hoppers - steel caboose - operating action cars
Misc. - track - bridge kits - crossing gates
plus the unproduced planned locos/rolling stock/accessories
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Post by riogrande on Jan 31, 2021 17:02:57 GMT -8
I recall MTH did the F7 but I didn't care for them and the rendering of their number board housing. It's hard to beat the High Liner F shell that is under the Genesis line.
I would like a rivet counter GP35 but I don't know if the MTH tooling is up to that standard.
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Post by severn on Jan 31, 2021 17:23:28 GMT -8
Great move. I suggested it in some other thread but really thought it'd be more money than they could gather up. But they did it!
Looks like st is going to be hiring...
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Post by lars on Jan 31, 2021 18:04:03 GMT -8
Great move. I suggested it in some other thread but really thought it'd be more money than they could gather up. But they did it! Looks like st is going to be hiring... Who knows, the MTH purchase might have been a bargain for them. My guess is that MTH didn't want to piecemeal everything, so HO was probably all or nothing. As this product list notes, the items that look to be good moneymakers are the steam and electric engines and passenger cars. The diesels all have issues of varying degrees and are replicated by others in the business, so maybe not a ton of value there. The freight cars as a whole don't seem to be overly impressive. Breaking down some of the potential buyers: Walthers needed none of the diesels and doesn't seem interested in steam; Atlas doesn't do steam and is dealing with their own acquisitions; Intermountain got hammered by production issues and probably couldn't deal with it; Rapido is on a growth rocketship and cash may be tight; Athearn doesn't seem to be overly interested in a broad steam line or older passenger cars, although they could have done it to block somebody else; BLI could have wanted it but Mike Wolfe probably would have melted the tooling down for scrap instead. There might not have been many buyers coming to the table here. Bachman is certainly one, and they may chase the O side of things. Maybe an overseas company like Hornby could have had interest. The MTH lot of tooling as a whole seems to fit well enough in the ST line, but there might not have been a lot serious buyers, either, and ST maybe got things on the cheap.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2021 18:37:16 GMT -8
I'm pretty sure the current MTH employees are still in the process of trying to purchase the O-gauge line. Some friends of mine had already speculated that buying ALL of MTH was going to be too much for any one company to handle, and it makes logical sense to separate the O-gauge market from the HO market, as the average customer in each market is rather different. The dealers are hopeful to see the MTH O line continue on its own, as it sells nicely as a competitor to Lionel and Atlas, at least in the area where I live.
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Post by carrman on Jan 31, 2021 20:27:11 GMT -8
But it just killed the chances of a really nice GP35. I'm not sure how you get from ScaleTrains buying MTH to a really nice GP35 being dead. Either ScaleTrains can upgrade the MTH tooling to Rivet Counter (in which case you have what you want), or they can't which means the market is still wide open. After all, its not like the existence of a Bachmann GP35 killed the chances. Not to mention that somebody else may already be past the point of no return on a GP35 anyway, or may see an opportunity to grab a market while ScaleTrains is buy digesting the MTH purchase - because about the only thing that can be said with confidence is that ScaleTrains is going to struggle slightly as they attempt to double or more in size overnight (finding more space, hiring more staff, evaluating and otherwise dealing with all that new tooling is going to be difficult until the process is finished). Or for that matter when ScaleTrains has scaled up to their new size (and I trust that they will succeed) maybe the additional revenue/cash flow means they create the dream GP35 model if the MTH tooling is found to be wanting.
I see this as ST not doing a knock out GP35 since they have the MTH now. I don't know that the tooling can be improved enough to be rivet counter quality. That's what I am saying. MTH diesels all seem to be lacking, I think steam and the passenger cars with ST guts are going to be solid.
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Post by riogrande on Jan 31, 2021 20:54:52 GMT -8
I see this as ST not doing a knock out GP35 since they have the MTH now. I don't know that the tooling can be improved enough to be rivet counter quality. That's what I am saying. MTH diesels all seem to be lacking, I think steam and the passenger cars with ST guts are going to be solid. I wouldn't be happy with a GP35, or GP30 or GP40, for that matter, that isn't Rivet Counter level. So I do hope you are wrong about the GP35. There are enough so-so models of all three I mention and we don't need more warmed over. I agree, MTH diesels all seem lacking.
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