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Post by sd80macs on May 9, 2012 12:42:45 GMT -8
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Post by el3637 on May 9, 2012 13:52:22 GMT -8
Ah.... you know what this means. New tool Amfleet and Amfleet II cars. About time they retired the old ones with their square contour. I just ebayed the last one I had at least among the NIB... didn't get much though. I don't need a large quantity of Amfleet cars, but it would be nice to have some that roll and look right. In other words up to current Walthers tooling standards. Andy |
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Post by sd80macs on May 9, 2012 16:11:20 GMT -8
I can only hope that IF walthers retools the Amfleets they are correct and as long as my Atlas AEM-7 can easily pull 6 of them I will be happy. I wont be to happy IF they do come out and I buy some as that will put a dent into the CC real quick, LOL I am planning to get a set of Metroliners but I will prob wait to see the test shots or maybe wait till after the first run hits the shelfs and gets torn apart by the experts.
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Post by Donnell Wells on May 9, 2012 16:21:41 GMT -8
I applaud Walthers for making this bold move, however, I think they should offer unpowered units as well. Technically, one car is a locomotive, so I can see the justification for the $170 price tag. But $170 x 4 = $680, for what is essentially four passenger cars?!
If it were my release (and its funny how we modelers always know how to do it better than the manufacturers  ), I would release them in powered/unpowered pairs.
Donnell
PS - This announcement all but guarantees a future new Amfleet car!
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Post by sd80macs on May 9, 2012 17:03:44 GMT -8
I agree with the 1 powered 1 dummy setup. that would be the best way to do it. Now if they retool amfleets I will be very happy but maybe they will also make the rebuilt metroliner cab cars too! Now that would be something.
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Post by railthunder on May 9, 2012 20:05:21 GMT -8
I would agree on having non-powered cars. I'm hopeful for a Penn Central version and an early Amtrak version too.
If Walther's can somehow pull of doing PRR catenary to compliment the Metroliner that would be great.
I'm also highly encouraged they are doing an Amtrak train. I hope it does well enough that they think about an SDP40F someday.
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Post by keystonecrossings on May 10, 2012 6:54:45 GMT -8
Since BLI is pushing sound on all of these... wonder if the cafe car will have the occasional dropped tray and glass breakage!
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Post by el3637 on May 10, 2012 8:48:36 GMT -8
Since BLI is pushing sound on all of these... wonder if the cafe car will have the occasional dropped tray and glass breakage! Toilet flushing sounds too. Maybe it could double as a track "cleaner".... Andy |
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Post by carrman on May 12, 2012 7:45:27 GMT -8
My LHS said Walnuts sent out a dealer email staitng this is the 2012 name train.
Dave
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Post by shoofly on May 12, 2012 9:31:22 GMT -8
Since BLI is pushing sound on all of these... wonder if the cafe car will have the occasional dropped tray and glass breakage! Toilet flushing sounds too. Maybe it could double as a track "cleaner".... Andy Hahaha i always thought a randomized jet startup whine sounding toilet flush would be cool when rolling around a layout  |
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Post by Donnell Wells on May 12, 2012 10:40:12 GMT -8
Hi Dave,
While this is a neat train to do, I think the appeal for this train is even more limited than that of the Amtrak California/Surfliner equipment. Plus, its seems like were kind of getting a raw deal. Four cars for $720 w/o sound, and $1040 w/sound hardly seems like a bargin, especially when you consider that the 9-car Broadway Limited, the 9-car 20th Century limited, the 10-car Empire Builder, the 10-car Twin Cities Hiawatha, the 8-car Super Chief, the 8-car El Capitan ALL went for under $700 retail!
Heck, even the 14 cars that made up the various Union Pacific "Cities" trains were just over $1100, which incidently is still less than the 350 4-car PRR (Pennsy) Deluxe Edition Metroliner sets they are planning to release! 
I'm not complaining, just pointing out some of the facts of the situation.
DonnellMy LHS said Walnuts sent out a dealer email staitng this is the 2012 name train. Dave
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2012 10:43:55 GMT -8
Hi Dave,
While this is a neat train to do, I think the appeal for this train is even more limited than that of the Amtrak California/Surfliner equipment. Plus, its seem like were kind of getting jipped. Four car for $900 hardly seems like a bargin, especially when you consider that the 9-car Broadway Limited, the 9-car 20th Century limited, the 10-car Empire Builder, the 10-car Twin Cities Hiawatha, the 8-car Super Chief, the 8-car El Capitan ALL went for under $700 retail!
Heck, even the 14 cars that made up the various Union Pacific "Cities" trains were just over $1100, which incidently is still less than the 350 4-car PRR (Pennsy) Deluxe Edition Metroliner sets they are planning to release!
I'm not complaining, just pointing out some of the facts of the situation.
DonnellMy LHS said Walnuts sent out a dealer email staitng this is the 2012 name train. Dave Walthers seems to be pushing the price envelope the hardest of all of the manufacturers. Even Athearn, a close second, on the price front is looking conservative to Walthers. |
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Post by railthunder on May 12, 2012 12:12:33 GMT -8
I really think they should consider non-powered models to bring things into a better buying window for more people.
If not then I might just keep my 6 old Bachman ones.
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Post by Donnell Wells on May 12, 2012 13:35:30 GMT -8
I really think they should consider non-powered models to bring things into a better buying window for more people. If not then I might just keep my 6 old Bachman ones.
Either that, or buy one and use it as a pattern to fix up you Bachmann cars!
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Post by sd80macs on May 12, 2012 13:53:14 GMT -8
Or sell them as a pair for the price they ask, 1 Powered 1 Dummy.
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Post by carrman on May 12, 2012 16:14:28 GMT -8
Walthers is off the deep end with pricing.
Dave
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Post by antoniofp45 on May 13, 2012 6:08:55 GMT -8
Not to diminish Walthers efforts, but a suggestion I wish they would consider their decision to offer a special edition of the Pennsylvania version while leaving out the Penn Central scheme: The Pennsylvania and Penn Central versions are essentially identical in paint scheme: Stainless Steel finish, white cab sides, red stripes on the window row. The difference is primarily the heralds. Keystone vs Worms. Walthers, imho, should offer the decals separately! For the Pennsy version, it's the Keystone Herald while for PC, the worms. Modelers can then choose which version they want. Something to keep in mind is that the Metroliners went into service under Penn Central. The units in the Pennsy dress were undergoing testing at that time, a year before the merger.   I understand that by selling the "Pennsy" version as a limited edition set Walthers will recoup on its investment, but as a service to customers it seems that offering the decal option would generate quite a number of sales as well. A good number of "Metros" remained in their Penn Central schemes up to the early 1980s. If you look at the above photo, you can see the "shadow" of the Pennsy Keystone decal on the fireman's side of the unit. |
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Post by railthunder on May 13, 2012 6:31:00 GMT -8
After consideration I think Walthers should offer both the Pennsy and a Penn Central version with power and non-power units. Non power units can only help sales I would think.
Also, something to remember. Penn Central did not sell all of the Metroliners to Amtrak originally. Some were leased for a time hence why some retained their PC worms after Amtrak start up for several years or more.
I'll write Walthers soon and tell them my thoughts too.
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Post by umtrrauthor on May 13, 2012 11:03:37 GMT -8
Or they can hold PC for a future release...
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Post by Donnell Wells on May 13, 2012 12:16:14 GMT -8
Or they can hold PC for a future release...
Which is probably what they will do...
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Post by calzephyr on May 13, 2012 13:43:20 GMT -8
My LHS said Walnuts sent out a dealer email staitng this is the 2012 name train. Dave That is official then. We were speculating on what the train would be recently and a few of us thought the City of New Orleans might be the new train this year. Maybe next year! Larry |
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Post by antoniofp45 on May 13, 2012 15:55:52 GMT -8
Or they can hold PC for a future release...
Which is probably what they will do...
Yes, I agree. However, I was just sharing the point that Walthers can knock out two birds with one stone with simplicity by offering the Metro already decorated in SS, red stripes, white cab and offering the ID decals in the box. This would take care of the Pennsy and PC modelers simultaneously! But I realize that, likely, Walthers wants to maximize its profit. I'm glad these units are being produced, but as was pointed out, it doesn't make much sense to have a 4 to 6 car train of powered passenger units on a layout . Producing powered and dummy units would be of a greater benefit for customers. Dummies can still be equipped with electrical circuitry for interior and exterior lighting. For sound, I'm assuming/hoping that Soundtraxx has gained access to one of the remaining prototype Metroliners that was undergoing restoration a while back and was able to record authentic sounds. The Metros basically sounded like industrial air conditioners with air brakes, which is neat in its own way. The one feature of the prototypes that, to this day, I still find annoying were those Leslie S-2M series horns as they were often out of tune and sounded bad enough to virtually make your hair stand up. |
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Post by Donnell Wells on May 13, 2012 17:40:06 GMT -8
Hi Antonio,
According to Walthers www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-13800 each unit will be equipped be one powered truck, hence the lack of unpowered units. Now I really feel like we're coming up short, in a sense. I hate for my post to come across as cynical, but even though I'm sure they'll be nice, and a welcomed addition by many, I think that these cars are way overpriced... 
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Post by railthunder on May 13, 2012 19:06:31 GMT -8
Hi Antonio,
According to Walthers www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-13800 each unit will be equipped be one powered truck, hence the lack of unpowered units. Now I really feel like we're coming up short, in a sense. I hate for my post to come across as cynical, but even though I'm sure they'll be nice, and a welcomed addition by many, I think that these cars are way overpriced... In essence the cars are only half powered and we're paying full power price. I'm also concerned about electrical reliability. For the record Bachmann went down this same road. The original Metroliner had both trucks powered, the later runs had one truck powered. The later run had pick up issues. Since the windows were tinted in all the prototypes it seems a no brainer to make one car a power car. |
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Post by nw611 on May 14, 2012 3:11:53 GMT -8
I'm curious to know if the Walthers Metroliner is adressed to collectors or to people who want to run their trains on a layout. I understand that the typical assembly for Metroliners was in 6 car runs (4 coaches + 1 snack bar + 1 parlor) and Walthers wll be offering coaches in two road numbers only. I also understand that a suitable catenary system is not available on the market. I can assure you that an overhead catenary system on a layout is a pain in the neck. Even if you have available all the components (Sommerfeldt, in my case), it is very difficult to lay down and maintainance is a matter of soldering every day. It is never realistic because wires are always overscale and the pantographs cannot touch the wire if you want to avoid accidents. Pantographs must be blocked at least 3 mm (1/8 of an inch) lower than the wires. I heard that the various GG1 models, as well as the MTH Little Joe and Bi-Polar were very successful, but can anybody suggest a Youtube video of Anerican electric locomotives running on a layout ? Ciao.
R. Galiano
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 4:39:39 GMT -8
I just looked at Walthers site and they have the Metroliners listed.......
A FOUR.....I repeat FOUR car set will cost you OVER A GRAND on MSRP....Even if you get it at 30% off, you are still going to be out about $750 at a bare minimum. Holy cow, smokes, fill in the blank....this set AIN'T cheap.
The PRR limited edition set is a mere $1200.
If you have the scratch to spend on a four car set, more power to you.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 4:47:00 GMT -8
Back in the late 1970's Model Railroader printed a feature article by a gentleman who scratch built a WORKING catenary for Chicago North Shore & Milwaukee or North Shore models.
In the 1970's the old Suydam Models, who were heavy into traction models, offered nickel-silver wire so you could build a working trolley or catenary system.
It is entirely possible to build a working overhead wire system. But you can spend years designing and building it.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on May 14, 2012 8:09:55 GMT -8
Antonio, You said, "...it doesn't make much sense to have a 4 to 6 car train of powered passenger units on a layout." What about Budd RDC's? I have a string of 4 of these on my layout, and the NH and B&M ran solid RDC consists a long longer than that. Personally, my feelings on dummies is that I don't like them much at all. And from what I hear, the cost savings are pretty minimal, especially with "smart dummies" (those with lights, etc.). Basically, you're saving the cost of the motor and the minor cost of the drive train. All of which may be $30 at the most. railthunder, These are self-propelled passenger cars just like the Budd RDC's from P1K. They aren't freight engines...they don't need all-wheel drive. In regards to the Bachmann 1-truck drives, I know some of these didn't have all-wheel pick-up. The 1-truck Bachmann Metroliners probably had some plastic wheels, therefore had poor power pick-up. If the Metroliners are anything like the P1K RDC's, they'll have plenty of weight and all-wheel power pick-up resulting in good performance. I just hope they are fast enough as the RDC's are too slow even for a Budd car (which is why NWSL made regearing kits for them). nw611, Walthers will be offering all the cars in 4 numbers each, however two are with sound and two are without. So if you want 4 coaches, they will be available...you'll just have to either add sound or run them soundless. There is suitable catenary on the market: www.modelmemories.com/hocat.htmNote the PRR-type catenary is towards the bottom of the page after the NH catenary. HO catenary can work just fine if it's installed and maintained: Where's David Harrison? I thought he made it over here to ARF... Anyways, that's his NEC layout in the vid link. Not only does he run with his pans up against the wire, that layout of his is portable and he takes it across the USA a couple times a year. On my old club layout, we had a trolley mainline that not only ran with the poles up, the wire was in use as a power collector (and personally, that's the safest way to go if you're going to run with pans & poles against the wire). That layout ran for 45 years with that trolley line. Jim, And if you count up the entire cost of each Walthers passenger train or Rapido's "Canadian", how much do they cost? |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 10:43:07 GMT -8
With motive power the Walthers name train will get you about three locomotives and 12 passenger cars for $2000. Lot more bang for the buck versus a grand and four cars with the Metroliner.
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Post by SantaFeJim on May 14, 2012 11:16:36 GMT -8
Paul - Help may be on the way shortly. I just emailed David Harrison a link to this topic. However, if he does not respond, maybe this link will help you out. |
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), I would release them in powered/unpowered pairs.
