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Post by lvrr325 on Dec 25, 2021 21:43:10 GMT -8
Agreed. with some UP units too. From what I recall my train watching days (mid-90s) Santa Fe power was pretty rare under any circumstance, at least east of Cleveland. I think I only have a handful of shots of Santa Fe units showing up around here, and some of them are in goofy places - a coal train off NS for down on the River Line had some, for instance. SP units would be more likely, TV-556 almost always had all SP power and could be almost anything, including once an MK leaser ex-Santa Fe F45 mixed in. Virtually everything showed up at least once that I saw back in the day. Probably in order of most to least common would be CSX, UP, SP, NS, BN, KCS, WC, CP, ATSF, CNW; east of Syracuse you also got CN units every day for a long time, occasionally still do. The trains that went to the NYS&W were also good for foreign power, after Walter moved the interchange to Syracuse I saw NS, BN, BNSF, and others. I did see a few D&RGW units too. If your era/locale is right you could even justify having NYS&W units mixed in as both in delivery to or being shuttled from Syracuse to Utica. But the bottom line is while Santa Fe was much less common at least on this end there's no reason not to have one or two if you want. My initial modeling era was going to be circa-1995, that was a good time to watch trains. I managed to see and take pictures of everything from the last gasp of GP10s and GP30/35s on Conrail, to SD60M's still dead in tow yet to be activated, just about every kind of foreign power there was, plus even some FL9s and other things. Once the older stuff all went away my interest waned. I don't know that I'd call myself an expert on it but I did take pretty good notes to go with the photos. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Dec 25, 2021 21:48:01 GMT -8
The M420B is cool. May have to do some BC Rail stuff to justify it! Now go for the gold, do the M420TR, either version, I like the French -Canadian one, but an FCP will do. lol. I know the guy who used to own the one that GVT has now (41?). In fact I was on it a couple times when it sat here locally. There's quite a soap opera behind how that went from R&S to GVT. You would have to tool two fuel tanks to do the R&S version. While they owned it they swapped it over to AAR trucks. Doing so required notching the lower ends of the tank so the brake gear would clear it. I wouldn't be shocked to find there are differences between the two of them. |
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Post by nebrzephyr on Dec 26, 2021 6:14:45 GMT -8
On the Santa Fe, if they are going with "blanked" class lights they also need to move the head light to the low nose. Bob I'm no ATSF guy but I found a bunch of pictures that prove otherwise..   So at least for these two specific units referenced in the PDF, this is a correct arrangement. I should have been more specific in my wording. What I was suggesting is that since Rapido is do a more "modernized" version with blanked class lights, they should consider a version with the headlight in the nose. Bob |
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Post by lars on Dec 26, 2021 6:28:06 GMT -8
the choice to do the GP38 is, shall I say.... interesting. It doesn't seem to go with the usual Rapido style of 'unusual thing/Canadian Thing/(insert Rapido employee here) needs it for their layout'. IMO seeing as how Rapido is a Canadian company they missed the boat by not doing the CP GP38ACs this round. I need a couple to go with my GP38-2s. I also think this is interesting news, too. But Rapido has been spreading it’s wings with the PAs and E-units and there seems to be a PC/Conrail contingent within the ranks, too. I also agree that the GP38/40 was Athearn’s to lose. With Matt going to Rapido I’m fairly certain he would have been able to disclose any plans Athearn had or didn’t have with the 38. However, like some of the recent releases, there could be enough room for more than one manufacturer to do a high end GP38 or 40. With Athearn having over half of the parts already in the bin, and a possible chip on their shoulder, there could still be one from them. I think I’m going to pass on a Rapdio offering. With a new home likely on the way there’s no place to run trains, and after seeing some of the issues with he RS-11 and B36 I don’t want to unbox a locomotive in 3-4 years only to find that it doesn’t work. In the meantime an upgrade to the Atlas offering looks like it could be a fun project. |
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Post by delta767332er on Dec 26, 2021 7:24:59 GMT -8
Wait until the thing comes out and we see how many dimensional errors or detail shortcuts are present before you go exalting it over the Atlas. See: Sw1200. They burned me on the Toteboats…..I’m not playing this game again. “Exalting” is of course a dramatic exaggeration of my post on your part. While I completely realize a CAD render isn’t a model, I think it’s pretty unrealistically pessimistic, seeing the CAD, to imagine a scenario where this won’t be a very significant improvement over the Atlas model in every measure, except possibly running quality, and that’s only because Atlas drives of that generation are simply the best ever. I don’t see how the B36-7 stepwells, or its nose tooling (I’ll cancel out the paint since it’s not like CSX-family Atlas paint and lettering has been stellar) translate to such pessimism of the GP38 model, specifically to it being a significant improvement over the Atlas model, beyond boycotting enthusiasm about Rapido products on principle, a la your signature line. Poo poo Rapido all you want, but to insinuate this isn’t an awesome announcement for prototype modelers who need GP38s <cough, cough us> seems pretty ridiculous. I’d much prefer a market response that shows Rapido CSX proto modelers are ready and willing to put our money where our big mouths are and be ready to buy quality, accurate products that are a great improvement over decades-old shrines to the last generation of model railroading……that motivates them to bring forth other rumored models that CSX modelers desperately need. |
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Post by nsc39d8 on Dec 26, 2021 8:49:12 GMT -8
I will have to welcome this announcement as a Southern modeler for the GP38 with Southern owning a good many of them. The short fuel tank is a welcome site as Atlas never properly executed this on the Southern models. From the drawings the cab height is the same as the short high hood and the long hood, something ST has yet to get correct on a short high hood model. The latest ST Southern SD45's still suffer from the same Athearn mistake on the cab height. They were told about it and said it was a China problem they could not fix. Well let's see, Athearn had this problem on the Southern GP40X, GP50, GP38-2, SD40, SD40-2, SD45 same for the N&W models. ST has so far had the same problem on the SD40-2 and now the SD45. Now Rapido didn't get the Southern B36-7 completely correct either and I discussed this in length with Gareth before he left. He was the project manager from the beginning and left mid project which I think(my opinion) is why the B36-7 fell short across the board. The Southern B36-7 had the wrong truck side frames and was missing the lift lug hole just inside the walkway steps, small rectangular cutout. southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/b36/sou3816.htmlI have been wait and see on some new models but I will support Rapido on the Southern GP38 and the Delaware Lackawanna M420 2045. Still got to love seeing those ALCO's work in Scranton. I wonder why Rapido didn't offer the MHWA 2042? Might need to get a BC Rail unit and relater it! www.railpictures.net/photo/671316/ |
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Post by csx3305 on Dec 26, 2021 9:17:40 GMT -8
Wait until the thing comes out and we see how many dimensional errors or detail shortcuts are present before you go exalting it over the Atlas. See: Sw1200. They burned me on the Toteboats…..I’m not playing this game again. “Exalting” is of course a dramatic exaggeration of my post on your part. While I completely realize a CAD render isn’t a model, I think it’s pretty unrealistically pessimistic, seeing the CAD, to imagine a scenario where this won’t be a very significant improvement over the Atlas model in every measure, except possibly running quality, and that’s only because Atlas drives of that generation are simply the best ever. I don’t see how the B36-7 stepwells, or its nose tooling (I’ll cancel out the paint since it’s not like CSX-family Atlas paint and lettering has been stellar) translate to such pessimism of the GP38 model, specifically to it being a significant improvement over the Atlas model, beyond boycotting enthusiasm about Rapido products on principle, a la your signature line. Poo poo Rapido all you want, but to insinuate this isn’t an awesome announcement for prototype modelers who need GP38s <cough, cough us> seems pretty ridiculous. I’d much prefer a market response that shows Rapido CSX proto modelers are ready and willing to put our money where our big mouths are and be ready to buy quality, accurate products that are a great improvement over decades-old shrines to the last generation of model railroading……that motivates them to bring forth other rumored models that CSX modelers desperately need. I’ll check back on this thread when it gets to market and the scale rulers and calipers get thoroughly applied (it won’t be by me, not “all” of “us” badly “need a GP38”). if I turn out to be wrong, I’ll gladly eat my hat and issue a retraction. I feel pretty comfortable about not having to apply A-1 sauce to felt. In the meantime, my Atlas units have two big given factors going for them, (1) they are long since fully paid for and (2) they have near-zero likelihood of motor failure like some Rapido models have shown. I actually LOL’d at your remark about my signature, this is my first post on this forum in over a year and a half (long tirades like we see above are but one big factor in why) and I had forgotten all about it. |
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Post by unittrain on Dec 26, 2021 9:21:21 GMT -8
It's great to see this announcement I'll take 2 PC 2 B&O and a Chessie and Conrail, that is when they do Chessie. Since this wasn't a GP30 announcement I think it indicates someone has the 30 in development by someone. But without Rapido new announcements would be a little scarcer.
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Post by csxt8400 on Dec 26, 2021 10:21:53 GMT -8
I am very pleased with this announcement and obviously the idea that the GP40 is right on the heels. Over the last few years I have switched my layout plans, and with that, no longer need a mix of NS power. Which is a bummer because those HH GP38's with ditchlights are so contemporary I'm still trying to find a reason to order one. That said, the CSX stuff is off to a decent start with the obvious battery box doors, and a little more subtle, the hooking cut levers. Hopefully some of the shortcomings that have plagued their recent offerings vanish, I'm not going to be happy with improperly shaped windows nor clunky end handrails.
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Post by trainboyy on Dec 26, 2021 12:08:20 GMT -8
I'm no ATSF guy but I found a bunch of pictures that prove otherwise.. So at least for these two specific units referenced in the PDF, this is a correct arrangement. I should have been more specific in my wording. What I was suggesting is that since Rapido is do a more "modernized" version with blanked class lights, they should consider a version with the headlight in the nose. Bob O.K. I see that in your original post now. Thanks |
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Post by delta767332er on Dec 26, 2021 12:56:59 GMT -8
I’ll check back on this thread when it gets to market and the scale rulers and calipers get thoroughly applied (it won’t be by me, not “all” of “us” badly “need a GP38”). if I turn out to be wrong, I’ll gladly eat my hat and issue a retraction. I feel pretty comfortable about not having to apply A-1 sauce to felt. In the meantime, my Atlas units have two big given factors going for them, (1) they are long since fully paid for and (2) they have near-zero likelihood of motor failure like some Rapido models have shown. I actually LOL’d at your remark about my signature, this is my first post on this forum in over a year and a half (long tirades like we see above are but one big factor in why) and I had forgotten all about it. Well, you’ve got my post count beat 8 to 1 and I only decided to respond to this thread to counter YOUR nonsense of critiquing the art while being happy to “keep your Atlas’s”………maybe you chased yourself away! |
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Post by csx3305 on Dec 26, 2021 13:28:57 GMT -8
I’ll check back on this thread when it gets to market and the scale rulers and calipers get thoroughly applied (it won’t be by me, not “all” of “us” badly “need a GP38”). if I turn out to be wrong, I’ll gladly eat my hat and issue a retraction. I feel pretty comfortable about not having to apply A-1 sauce to felt. In the meantime, my Atlas units have two big given factors going for them, (1) they are long since fully paid for and (2) they have near-zero likelihood of motor failure like some Rapido models have shown. I actually LOL’d at your remark about my signature, this is my first post on this forum in over a year and a half (long tirades like we see above are but one big factor in why) and I had forgotten all about it. Well, you’ve got my post count beat 8 to 1 and I only decided to respond to this thread to counter YOUR nonsense of critiquing the art while being happy to “keep your Atlas’s”………maybe you chased yourself away! Quit being condescending and answer me this. Will you be submitting corrected artwork for these? Or perhaps O’Dell will? What happens if it gets discarded when/if Jason deems it too expensive to produce all the lettering variations across the roadnumbers? (Just like what he did with the B36-7…..he admitted as much on this very forum. Go look it up if you don’t believe me). Or will you be stripping them and repainting your own? I just don’t get it. I’ve seen you nitpick the Scaletrains SD40-2 for being literally one scale inch off on the windshields, and you’ve roasted the Spring Mills Canstock boxcar on the MFCL for being a literal scale 3 inches too wide. I’ve seen you drag Athearn over the coals on Facebook for various issues, from the 4600 Centerflow having the wrong angle on the top chord to various small lettering and data issues. And yet here you are minimizing the corners Rapido cut on the B36-7, and coming across as offended that I dare even suggest the same might happen with this GP38. Makes it rather hard to take you seriously, quite honestly. Maybe I’m just cold and damp from walking off that pier… |
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Post by delta767332er on Dec 26, 2021 14:10:41 GMT -8
Well, you’ve got my post count beat 8 to 1 and I only decided to respond to this thread to counter YOUR nonsense of critiquing the art while being happy to “keep your Atlas’s”………maybe you chased yourself away! Quit being condescending and answer me this. Will you be submitting corrected artwork for these? Or perhaps O’Dell will? What happens if it gets discarded when/if Jason deems it too expensive to produce all the lettering variations across the roadnumbers? (Just like what he did with the B36-7…..he admitted as much on this very forum. Go look it up if you don’t believe me). Or will you be stripping them and repainting your own? I just don’t get it. I’ve seen you nitpick the Scaletrains SD40-2 for being literally one scale inch off on the windshields, and you’ve roasted the Spring Mills Canstock boxcar on the MFCL for being a literal scale 3 inches too wide. I’ve seen you drag Athearn over the coals on Facebook for various issues, from the 4600 Centerflow having the wrong angle on the top chord to various small lettering and data issues. And yet here you are minimizing the corners Rapido cut on the B36-7, and coming across as offended that I dare even suggest the same might happen with this GP38. Makes it rather hard to take you seriously, quite honestly. Maybe I’m just cold and damp from walking off that pier… Gonna attempt to reply with the throttle back off one notch since we're turning this into a typical ARF garbage thread, which is why I have 100 posts, and you haven't been here in a year and a half. My original "contribution" was to opine that I think it is very difficult to make the objective point that the shown 38 art is glaringly bad, while at the same time you're happy with your Atlas 38s in the context of this model coming, based on shown CAD, with the repeated caveat that CAD isn't plastic. I wasn't stating you should think the art is great or that you shouldn't be happy with your Atlas GP38s - that's up to you. But I think to the "typical"(?) prototype modeler, those comments are really hard to rectify together. Since we like stepwells, how about the Atlas GP stepwells. They're horrific - are the see-through steps worth that compromise? Blombergs are hideous. Banna conversions aren't fun. The underframe gives me the willies. It was a solid model for its time. And I completely understand many/most modelers still being happy with it. But not one that appreciates/sees glaring errors in the Rapido art, which arguably is the best non-O'Dell CSX art I've seen, probably by a good bit. (Don't read this as my being happy with it.) I just wanted to prod, because it certainly just seemed like a trolling post inline with your consistent Rapido-bashing, which, for the record, I have NO problem with. Yes, I will be offering Nick whatever assistance he needs to get revisions to Rapido, though, as you probably know, no work needs to be done, as all the applicable art is already complete for these schemes. If Nick submits his art and it gets purposefully discarded, I will bad-mouth "Jason" and Rapido just as much as I have before - I like to think I'm the source code for the pier comment after I publicly called out the obvious nose-dive the B36 project took when Gareth got fired. I don't think this art will be below the strip threshold. Hopefully at worst some micro-soling off the worst offenders. I'm operating under the assumption the art will get revised. Let's revisit that question later when it's necessary. Yes, I'm aware of many people's opinions of Rapido and Jason. Mine just went up considerably with this announcement. I'm a prototype modeling whore on sale to this highest manufacturer. I see your minimization of an inch of a windshield dimension, a common "logical fallacy" of the toy trainer that I believe you're above doing. Would you like to discuss scale measurements or scale percentage of error? I'll entertain the latter if you'd like. Are you saying an inch can't make an Amtrak stripe look wrong? Nowhere in HO scale a scale inch matters, because it's only .01148"? Yep, I roasted SMD. Roasted hard. But really moreso when they doubled down and arrogantly refused to admit the error and outright said the car was correct. Their I-12 is beautiful! Yep, Athearn has, and continues to be, a nightmare to the prototype modeler, regardless of the good intentions of some of their PDs. I'm thankful, however, they have recently been willing to work directly with modelers to improve their products. A step in the right direction, but yep, still doing their job for them, and it sucks. I sense you may have been reading what you thought you were reading, vs. what I was writing. I in no way intended to minimize the frustrations of the CSX B36-7, and am not sure why you're thinking I was/am. I never said I don't expect some errors or oversights to occur, and I'll point them out when they do. BUT - My entire point was trying to get you to explain how you can immediately nitpick medium-resolution announcement art that 95% of CSX modelers would be extremely happy about, yet be Joe Cool about keeping your Atlas GP38s, which I'd offer a much lesser percentage of "GP38 modelers" will be happy with, with the prospect of replacing them with a new Rapido model. Summed up in one statement - the quantity and magnitudes of errors that would have to occur to make the Rapido 38 not be an great improvement over the Atlas model would have to be such that I can't even believe YOU would really expect that's a possibility. But then again, it seems you're OK with the Atlas model even if that CAD turned to plastic and fell onto your workbench, so we'll probably always be talking past each other. Which wouldn't have been my impression from your post history, because I generally agree with your direction. Oh well, enjoy your Atlas GPs. It's not lost on me that I stand beside my public comments without hiding behind a screen name. I hope you're wrong about the Rapido GP38, CSX3305. I'm really excited about them. Signed, NotAFanboy Bennett |
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Post by dti406 on Dec 26, 2021 14:48:41 GMT -8
Here’s hoping that Jason gets tired of you CSX guys complaining and scraps making CSX engines and instead makes the DT&I and N&W GP38AC’s that I want.
Rick Jesionowski
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Post by csx3305 on Dec 26, 2021 14:59:04 GMT -8
Quit being condescending and answer me this. Will you be submitting corrected artwork for these? Or perhaps O’Dell will? What happens if it gets discarded when/if Jason deems it too expensive to produce all the lettering variations across the roadnumbers? (Just like what he did with the B36-7…..he admitted as much on this very forum. Go look it up if you don’t believe me). Or will you be stripping them and repainting your own? I just don’t get it. I’ve seen you nitpick the Scaletrains SD40-2 for being literally one scale inch off on the windshields, and you’ve roasted the Spring Mills Canstock boxcar on the MFCL for being a literal scale 3 inches too wide. I’ve seen you drag Athearn over the coals on Facebook for various issues, from the 4600 Centerflow having the wrong angle on the top chord to various small lettering and data issues. And yet here you are minimizing the corners Rapido cut on the B36-7, and coming across as offended that I dare even suggest the same might happen with this GP38. Makes it rather hard to take you seriously, quite honestly. Maybe I’m just cold and damp from walking off that pier… Gonna attempt to reply with the throttle back off one notch since we're turning this into a typical ARF garbage thread, which is why I have 100 posts, and you haven't been here in a year and a half. My original "contribution" was to opine that I think it is very difficult to make the objective point that the shown 38 art is glaringly bad, while at the same time you're happy with your Atlas 38s in the context of this model coming, based on shown CAD, with the repeated caveat that CAD isn't plastic. I wasn't stating you should think the art is great or that you shouldn't be happy with your Atlas GP38s - that's up to you. But I think to the "typical"(?) prototype modeler, those comments are really hard to rectify together. Since we like stepwells, how about the Atlas GP stepwells. They're horrific - are the see-through steps worth that compromise? Blombergs are hideous. Banna conversions aren't fun. The underframe gives me the willies. It was a solid model for its time. And I completely understand many/most modelers still being happy with it. But not one that appreciates/sees glaring errors in the Rapido art, which arguably is the best non-O'Dell CSX art I've seen, probably by a good bit. (Don't read this as my being happy with it.) I just wanted to prod, because it certainly just seemed like a trolling post inline with your consistent Rapido-bashing, which, for the record, I have NO problem with. Yes, I will be offering Nick whatever assistance he needs to get revisions to Rapido, though, as you probably know, no work needs to be done, as all the applicable art is already complete for these schemes. If Nick submits his art and it gets purposefully discarded, I will bad-mouth "Jason" and Rapido just as much as I have before - I like to think I'm the source code for the pier comment after I publicly called out the obvious nose-dive the B36 project took when Gareth got fired. I don't think this art will be below the strip threshold. Hopefully at worst some micro-soling off the worst offenders. I'm operating under the assumption the art will get revised. Let's revisit that question later when it's necessary. Yes, I'm aware of many people's opinions of Rapido and Jason. Mine just went up considerably with this announcement. I'm a prototype modeling whore on sale to this highest manufacturer. I see your minimization of an inch of a windshield dimension, a common "logical fallacy" of the toy trainer that I believe you're above doing. Would you like to discuss scale measurements or scale percentage of error? I'll entertain the latter if you'd like. Are you saying an inch can't make an Amtrak stripe look wrong? Nowhere in HO scale a scale inch matters, because it's only .01148"? Yep, I roasted SMD. Roasted hard. But really moreso when they doubled down and arrogantly refused to admit the error and outright said the car was correct. Their I-12 is beautiful! Yep, Athearn has, and continues to be, a nightmare to the prototype modeler, regardless of the good intentions of some of their PDs. I'm thankful, however, they have recently been willing to work directly with modelers to improve their products. A step in the right direction, but yep, still doing their job for them, and it sucks. I sense you may have been reading what you thought you were reading, vs. what I was writing. I in no way intended to minimize the frustrations of the CSX B36-7, and am not sure why you're thinking I was/am. I never said I don't expect some errors or oversights to occur, and I'll point them out when they do. BUT - My entire point was trying to get you to explain how you can immediately nitpick medium-resolution announcement art that 95% of CSX modelers would be extremely happy about, yet be Joe Cool about keeping your Atlas GP38s, which I'd offer a much lesser percentage of "GP38 modelers" will be happy with, with the prospect of replacing them with a new Rapido model. Summed up in one statement - the quantity and magnitudes of errors that would have to occur to make the Rapido 38 not be an great improvement over the Atlas model would have to be such that I can't even believe YOU would really expect that's a possibility. But then again, it seems you're OK with the Atlas model even if that CAD turned to plastic and fell onto your workbench, so we'll probably always be talking past each other. Which wouldn't have been my impression from your post history, because I generally agree with your direction. Oh well, enjoy your Atlas GPs. It's not lost on me that I stand beside my public comments without hiding behind a screen name. I hope you're wrong about the Rapido GP38, CSX3305. I'm really excited about them. Signed, NotAFanboy Bennett And here we have the nexus of our “failure” to communicate. You saw my artwork / “keep my Atlas units” remark that was tossed off on the spur of the moment after a 30 second glance at the announcement, and then knee-jerk discounted it as “anybody who thinks the Atlas units are so great surely can’t be taken seriously on artwork or anything else”. I DIDN’T say the Atlases were perfect and undoubtedly better than what Rapido will ever do or is even showing in the CAD drawings. What I MEANT was that “they might not be perfect but they are PAID FOR and are mechanically proven to be solid, and I see little to no use in paying more to replace them with units that possibly or likely will have fat handrail stanchions or mis-sized treadplate, or whatever else”. You are filling in and making assumptions on that part. Sure, Rapido might knock this out of the park and put everybody else’s EMD’s to shame. It’s possible, sure. Am I skeptical and pessimistic? You better believe it……and I for one am not gonna be the preorder guinea pig this time around. As for the screen name thing, if we are gonna harp on that old chestnut again, then go ahead and keep harping, I feel no compelling need to post a fake name or location or even my real info (nobody would know the difference either way, so why bother.). Have I beaten the Rapido horse too much in the past? Probably. Is it any more ridiculous, obnoxious, or one-sided than the few who come to bat in their defense at any mention of an issue, regardless of having skin in the game, and look at everything Rapido does with rose-colored glasses? Not a chance. |
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Post by csx3305 on Dec 26, 2021 15:20:16 GMT -8
Quit being condescending and answer me this. Will you be submitting corrected artwork for these? Or perhaps O’Dell will? What happens if it gets discarded when/if Jason deems it too expensive to produce all the lettering variations across the roadnumbers? (Just like what he did with the B36-7…..he admitted as much on this very forum. Go look it up if you don’t believe me). Or will you be stripping them and repainting your own? I just don’t get it. I’ve seen you nitpick the Scaletrains SD40-2 for being literally one scale inch off on the windshields, and you’ve roasted the Spring Mills Canstock boxcar on the MFCL for being a literal scale 3 inches too wide. I’ve seen you drag Athearn over the coals on Facebook for various issues, from the 4600 Centerflow having the wrong angle on the top chord to various small lettering and data issues. And yet here you are minimizing the corners Rapido cut on the B36-7, and coming across as offended that I dare even suggest the same might happen with this GP38. Makes it rather hard to take you seriously, quite honestly. Maybe I’m just cold and damp from walking off that pier… Gonna attempt to reply with the throttle back off one notch since we're turning this into a typical ARF garbage thread, which is why I have 100 posts, and you haven't been here in a year and a half. My original "contribution" was to opine that I think it is very difficult to make the objective point that the shown 38 art is glaringly bad, while at the same time you're happy with your Atlas 38s in the context of this model coming, based on shown CAD, with the repeated caveat that CAD isn't plastic. I wasn't stating you should think the art is great or that you shouldn't be happy with your Atlas GP38s - that's up to you. But I think to the "typical"(?) prototype modeler, those comments are really hard to rectify together. Since we like stepwells, how about the Atlas GP stepwells. They're horrific - are the see-through steps worth that compromise? Blombergs are hideous. Banna conversions aren't fun. The underframe gives me the willies. It was a solid model for its time. And I completely understand many/most modelers still being happy with it. But not one that appreciates/sees glaring errors in the Rapido art, which arguably is the best non-O'Dell CSX art I've seen, probably by a good bit. (Don't read this as my being happy with it.) I just wanted to prod, because it certainly just seemed like a trolling post inline with your consistent Rapido-bashing, which, for the record, I have NO problem with. Yes, I will be offering Nick whatever assistance he needs to get revisions to Rapido, though, as you probably know, no work needs to be done, as all the applicable art is already complete for these schemes. If Nick submits his art and it gets purposefully discarded, I will bad-mouth "Jason" and Rapido just as much as I have before - I like to think I'm the source code for the pier comment after I publicly called out the obvious nose-dive the B36 project took when Gareth got fired. I don't think this art will be below the strip threshold. Hopefully at worst some micro-soling off the worst offenders. I'm operating under the assumption the art will get revised. Let's revisit that question later when it's necessary. Yes, I'm aware of many people's opinions of Rapido and Jason. Mine just went up considerably with this announcement. I'm a prototype modeling whore on sale to this highest manufacturer. I see your minimization of an inch of a windshield dimension, a common "logical fallacy" of the toy trainer that I believe you're above doing. Would you like to discuss scale measurements or scale percentage of error? I'll entertain the latter if you'd like. Are you saying an inch can't make an Amtrak stripe look wrong? Nowhere in HO scale a scale inch matters, because it's only .01148"? Yep, I roasted SMD. Roasted hard. But really moreso when they doubled down and arrogantly refused to admit the error and outright said the car was correct. Their I-12 is beautiful! Yep, Athearn has, and continues to be, a nightmare to the prototype modeler, regardless of the good intentions of some of their PDs. I'm thankful, however, they have recently been willing to work directly with modelers to improve their products. A step in the right direction, but yep, still doing their job for them, and it sucks. I sense you may have been reading what you thought you were reading, vs. what I was writing. I in no way intended to minimize the frustrations of the CSX B36-7, and am not sure why you're thinking I was/am. I never said I don't expect some errors or oversights to occur, and I'll point them out when they do. BUT - My entire point was trying to get you to explain how you can immediately nitpick medium-resolution announcement art that 95% of CSX modelers would be extremely happy about, yet be Joe Cool about keeping your Atlas GP38s, which I'd offer a much lesser percentage of "GP38 modelers" will be happy with, with the prospect of replacing them with a new Rapido model. Summed up in one statement - the quantity and magnitudes of errors that would have to occur to make the Rapido 38 not be an great improvement over the Atlas model would have to be such that I can't even believe YOU would really expect that's a possibility. But then again, it seems you're OK with the Atlas model even if that CAD turned to plastic and fell onto your workbench, so we'll probably always be talking past each other. Which wouldn't have been my impression from your post history, because I generally agree with your direction. Oh well, enjoy your Atlas GPs. It's not lost on me that I stand beside my public comments without hiding behind a screen name. I hope you're wrong about the Rapido GP38, CSX3305. I'm really excited about them. Signed, NotAFanboy Bennett One more thing. I just spent two minutes on a quick google search to bring up prototype photos of each of the CSX numbers shown on the .pdf just to confirm……..That long hood logo is nowhere even close and is barely better than the “revised” (mangled) Microscale logos that they like to use on their diesel sheets. The X almost looks flipped 180 degrees and there is too much space between the letters, just for starters. I fail to see how you can minimize that as a “95% percentile artwork adequacy”. It was immediately obvious when I first opened the announcement. Good luck Micro-soling that out of the hood door hinges and grooves if they show up like that. This whole exchange reeked of “quieten down or you’ll ruin the deal for the rest of us” , and you basically confirmed it for me with your closing paragraph, which is the same basic attitude I got from a certain NS modeler when the B36-7 debacle surfaced. We shouldn’t have to kow-tow or walk on eggshells with ANY manufacturer, Rapido included. Especially one that has a track record of quiet corner-cutting on a project after pre-orders are closed. The notion of doing so is almost like a mild form of Stockholm Syndrome on some levels. |
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Post by csxt8400 on Dec 26, 2021 15:24:58 GMT -8
I don't think the artwork matters on the CSX's because most of us believe it will be remedied, by people with proper art.
If it isn't, then yes, it's egg o'clock for Rapido.
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Post by lvrr325 on Dec 26, 2021 15:25:18 GMT -8
I tend to fall on the side of see how they actually are after some of the issues with the SW1200.
I don't know that I really need any, at least this run; what I need are GP38-2s and I wish Atlas would do theirs in LV. I could put up with some issues on them, just to have units with more or less the same drive as the umpteen C420s, RS11s, and U23Bs (and one GP38) I have now. I know the art and the color would be right.
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Post by csx3305 on Dec 26, 2021 15:27:06 GMT -8
I don't think the artwork matters on the CSX's because most of us believe it will be remedied, by people with proper art. If it isn't, then yes, it's egg o'clock for Rapido. But, there again……the revisions were trashed for the B36-7…..nothing about these kinds of things are a given, IMO. |
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Post by csxt8400 on Dec 26, 2021 15:32:33 GMT -8
I don't think the artwork matters on the CSX's because most of us believe it will be remedied, by people with proper art. If it isn't, then yes, it's egg o'clock for Rapido. But, there again……the revisions were trashed for the B36-7…..nothing about these kinds of things are a given, IMO. I agree with you, just stating that I'm making my assumptions based on the idea that it will be corrected. The tooling is what I'm most interested in with that being said. This being the first foray into spartan cab territory for Rapido, I'm anxious to see if they can nail the familiar EMD face. |
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Post by lars on Dec 26, 2021 16:28:26 GMT -8
I don't think the artwork matters on the CSX's because most of us believe it will be remedied, by people with proper art. If it isn't, then yes, it's egg o'clock for Rapido. What bothers me here is that the assumption of the modeling community and what sometimes seems to be the modus operandi of Rapido, the industry price-setter, is to put out something that is 90% complete and then expect modelers to finish off the project. Weird. |
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Post by 690 on Dec 26, 2021 18:02:55 GMT -8
Well, worst comes to worst, there will be a bunch of Atlas GP38s available for cheap if this Rapido model doesn’t live up to their promises.
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Post by mdvle on Dec 26, 2021 18:23:09 GMT -8
I am very pleased with this announcement and obviously the idea that the GP40 is right on the heels.
So, an out of left field, likely wrong, no inside knowledge, question for those who are more knowledgeable about the prototypes.
What is the shared tooling prospects of a GP38 -> GP40 -> GP40TC?
Yes, I know the GP40TC is longer, but what about nose, cab, fuel tank, etc?
Does doing the GP38/40 help reduce the cost of potentially offering the GP40TC in the future?
Or are Rapido simply doing the GP38 because EMD sells and other projects like their FM H16-44 struggled to sell.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 26, 2021 18:29:30 GMT -8
Well, worst comes to worst, there will be a bunch of Atlas GP38s available for cheap if this Rapido model doesn’t live up to their promises. Or perhaps not, if people decide that Atlas ones are consequently more valuable. Ed |
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Post by csxt8400 on Dec 26, 2021 18:35:42 GMT -8
Related to the TC, one thing that this sort of unit has going for it is that the design aspects are in line with typical EMD for the time. Which means it shares a lot of "off the shelf" parts such as grilles, hood doors, cab face and cab sides, fans, trucks, treadplate, so on and so forth.
The nose just looks like a typical GMD 81 inch chopped down to fit for the frame. I'd surmise that they would have to tool the frame, long hood, short hood, fuel tank, and roof. So I guess it depends on what someone would consider closer, in terms of tooling.
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Post by cemr5396 on Dec 26, 2021 20:20:56 GMT -8
Related to the TC.... ... I'd surmise that they would have to tool the frame, long hood, short hood, fuel tank, and roof. So I guess it depends on what someone would consider closer, in terms of tooling. that doesn't sound particularly close to me, but it depends how many options Rapido leaves themselves when they make their tooling and how modular it is (or isn't). I'm not sure about the TC, but if they play their cards right this GP38 could be an easy 'jump-off' point for them to make a 38AC, and I could use a couple CP ones if that happens  |
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Post by csx3305 on Dec 27, 2021 0:17:32 GMT -8
Here’s hoping that Jason gets tired of you CSX guys complaining and scraps making CSX engines and instead makes the DT&I and N&W GP38AC’s that I want. Rick Jesionowski You do realize that there is concurrently a multi-page debate across two threads at the top of this forum, right this very minute, that is parsing out the wrong shade of gray and the color of nose heralds of Scaletrains Erie Lackawanna SD45’s? Such descriptors as “disappointing” and “blinding” are two immediate points that might be construed as negative by some. So then, having said that…. Does this EL SD45 talk get dismissed as “complaining” too, or is this another example of that whole unspoken “pipe down, its just CSX, and therefore nothing the rest of us care about” double-standard thing rearing its head again? Just curious, as I noticed you didn’t weigh in on those discussions. |
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Post by dti406 on Dec 27, 2021 7:26:57 GMT -8
Here’s hoping that Jason gets tired of you CSX guys complaining and scraps making CSX engines and instead makes the DT&I and N&W GP38AC’s that I want. Rick Jesionowski You do realize that there is concurrently a multi-page debate across two threads at the top of this forum, right this very minute, that is parsing out the wrong shade of gray and the color of nose heralds of Scaletrains Erie Lackawanna SD45’s? Such descriptors as “disappointing” and “blinding” are two immediate points that might be construed as negative by some. So then, having said that…. Does this EL SD45 talk get dismissed as “complaining” too, or is this another example of that whole unspoken “pipe down, its just CSX, and therefore nothing the rest of us care about” double-standard thing rearing its head again? Just curious, as I noticed you didn’t weigh in on those discussions. I think it's complaining, and I have nothing to add to the color comparison because we DT&I modelers have dealt with that discussion for over 20 years and we have 14 different paint formulas and we can't agree on the correct color. But we know that Athearn is way too orange but Atlas is close but a little red. The discussion on the yahoo group went on for hundreds of posts. Color is so subjective, based on the time of day, how cloudy is it, what color processing was used, did they use a filter. I (and the rest of my club members) think the shade of Jade Green used on Tangent's 86' Hi-Cubes is incorrect, but it matches a picture in the NYC Color Guide precisely. Speaking of incorrect we were happy to get the Athearn GP38-2's for at least for the first time we did not have to add the gong bell to the nose and then try to match the incorrect paint. And the spark arrestors were incorrect and will be changed out whenever I have to do some major work to those units. Everybody told me to live with the great Blaine from Arrowhead for putting the incorrect capacity lettering on the H39's, and he did not even offer replacement decals for those who bought the cars with the incorrect data. The same holds true for the Mint Green DT&I 2893CF covered hoppers which should have been 3510CF, but those foobies pay for other new models I was told. Also, when I mentioned in the B36-7 thread that SP & ATSF would outsell CSX for Rapido, I was correct in that Jason stated that in one of their Youtube presentations. By the way I model the era before CSX so I don't care about CSX at all. Rick Jesionowski |
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Post by csx3305 on Dec 27, 2021 7:40:51 GMT -8
You do realize that there is concurrently a multi-page debate across two threads at the top of this forum, right this very minute, that is parsing out the wrong shade of gray and the color of nose heralds of Scaletrains Erie Lackawanna SD45’s? Such descriptors as “disappointing” and “blinding” are two immediate points that might be construed as negative by some. So then, having said that…. Does this EL SD45 talk get dismissed as “complaining” too, or is this another example of that whole unspoken “pipe down, its just CSX, and therefore nothing the rest of us care about” double-standard thing rearing its head again? Just curious, as I noticed you didn’t weigh in on those discussions. I think it's complaining, and I have nothing to add to the color comparison because we DT&I modelers have dealt with that discussion for over 20 years and we have 14 different paint formulas and we can't agree on the correct color. But we know that Athearn is way too orange but Atlas is close but a little red. The discussion on the yahoo group went on for hundreds of posts. Color is so subjective, based on the time of day, how cloudy is it, what color processing was used, did they use a filter. I (and the rest of my club members) think the shade of Jade Green used on Tangent's 86' Hi-Cubes is incorrect, but it matches a picture in the NYC Color Guide precisely. Speaking of incorrect we were happy to get the Athearn GP38-2's for at least for the first time we did not have to add the gong bell to the nose and then try to match the incorrect paint. And the spark arrestors were incorrect and will be changed out whenever I have to do some major work to those units. Everybody told me to live with the great Blaine from Arrowhead for putting the incorrect capacity lettering on the H39's, and he did not even offer replacement decals for those who bought the cars with the incorrect data. The same holds true for the Mint Green DT&I 2893CF covered hoppers which should have been 3510CF, but those foobies pay for other new models I was told. Also, when I mentioned in the B36-7 thread that SP & ATSF would outsell CSX for Rapido, I was correct in that Jason stated that in one of their Youtube presentations. By the way I model the era before CSX so I don't care about CSX at all. Rick Jesionowski Splendid. You’re now officially part of The Complaint Club for Complainy Complainers. Welcome. You are in elite company. Embroidered robes, slippers, and tobacco pipes are available next to the high-backed victorian chairs. |
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Post by champagnetrail on Dec 27, 2021 8:34:51 GMT -8
Thread locking in 5...4...3...2...
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