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Post by nebrzephyr on Jun 26, 2015 13:33:37 GMT -8
So I had purchased an Athearn SDP-45, Burlington Northern, awhile back. And of course those cheapo bulbs that Athearn insists on using, well, the beacon light died. So I disassembled the unit figuring probably fairly easy to replace the bulb. WRONG!!!! The cab and interior is glued into the basic shell. Thanks a lot!
I did manage to get a new bulb in but it took some time and ingenuity to do it. Required removing the beacon lens and, then pushing the bulb in wire first. No way I could see, and I tried, to get the wires thu the cab into the main part of the shell. So I shoved a piece of cut off bulb wire from inside the shell to the inside of the cab, pulled it out the side window. Pulled the beacon wires out the same window, soldered the two wires together, The pull the wire that had been pushed thru from inside the shell until the bulbs wires where accessible in the shell.
Not a happy camper right now.
Bob
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Post by Judge Doom on Jun 26, 2015 14:27:56 GMT -8
It's about time Athearn gets on the LED bandwagon, or at least picks some better quality bulbs.
This isn't funny anymore Athearn, you've had a known defect with your products for years and haven't done anything about it.
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Jun 26, 2015 15:18:10 GMT -8
Should have just upgraded them to Monster LEDs. Simple.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jun 26, 2015 15:37:02 GMT -8
Should have just upgraded them to Monster LEDs. Simple. Al......I did replace the front and rear bulbs with some 0402 LEDs. But I have never like the effect of LED for a rotating beacon |
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Post by atsfan on Jun 26, 2015 17:48:48 GMT -8
Athearn has terrible light bulbs and spotty handrails.
They know it.
They know modelers don't like them.
And they don't care.
Pretty simple situation.
Al, I may have to get some of those kits.
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Post by wmcbride on Jun 26, 2015 21:19:43 GMT -8
I agree these Athearn bulbs need to go. Two Genesis engines with one headlight and one ditch light blown out in their first five minutes on the track. Result: LED installation sooner than planned.
The other thing that I find kind of irksome (but repairable) is the botched F unit interiors in Athearn Genesis units. They sit several scale feet too far to the rear so the "dashboard" does not fit under the windows like it should. Instead, one gets to see what appears to be open-topped glove boxes or storage bins. Robert Smaus had an article in MR over a decade ago on how to fix it. I remember emailing Athearn about it and asking them if they were going to do anything to get the cab interior in the correct place. Their answer: No.
That said, I have a about a dozen Genesis units and the lights and cab interiors are fixable (but a pain). The handrails are a tougher fix. I think the thinnest, straightest, and most robust "plastic" handrails I have are on my Proto units, especially the RS-27s.
Bill McBride
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Post by Brakie on Jun 27, 2015 2:47:58 GMT -8
Guys, I was a huge purchaser of Athearn products now I would rather not buy any of their products.
The reason is simple my last RTR GP40-2 had loose flywheels a simple fix for sure but,why was that engine allowed to leave the factory?
Too bad I can't buy the shells and place 'em on my 20,30 and 40 year old BB drives.
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Post by bigblow69 on Jun 27, 2015 8:14:40 GMT -8
Of the four ES44AC's I have three had issues with bulbs. I have since had two retro-fitted with LED's. All my Athearn's will eventually have this done. Their bulbs are useless.
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Post by WP 257 on Jun 27, 2015 8:31:34 GMT -8
Well, by switching to nearly all steam on my layout, which is typically offered by other importers than Horizon/Athearn, this is one problem I no longer have. Athearn's poor QA/QC with the diesels made it easy to want to switch.
Sorry to say I've seen other Athearn engines with cabs glued in place such that you couldn't disassemble easily.
John
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Post by Spikre on Jun 27, 2015 9:01:02 GMT -8
 its little quirks like the above that have kept me from diving into the SDP45 pool !! and EL 3638 does look very nice,,,,,,but !! Spikre 
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Post by Mark R. on Jun 27, 2015 9:19:24 GMT -8
The biggest problem with the Athearn bulbs is not the bulbs themselves, but people running too high a track voltage. I know a number of people who run their track voltage down to around 13.5 volts or lower and have been running the factory Athearn bulbs for years. I recall one client of mine whose track voltage was over 18 volts !!! It also helps huge for using those hot running Tsunami TSU-750 decoders - lower the track voltage, no more overheating.  Mark. |
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jun 27, 2015 12:50:38 GMT -8
Mark.....good point on the voltage. I run mine at 13.5 +/-, but still occasionally have Athearn bulb failure. Of course it's always the hardest one to replace - beacon, ditch light, etc.  Bob |
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Post by NS4122 on Jun 27, 2015 16:04:38 GMT -8
My system puts out 11.5 volts and my Athearn engines all have decoders with regulated 1.5V outputs and I still have failures. I have found that most of my Athearn bulbs that failed weren't actually burned out. Most came back on after I flicked them with my finger.
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Post by mlehman on Jun 27, 2015 22:47:01 GMT -8
Agree on the track voltage. I run 12.5 myself.
But what Athearn's doing is putting bulbs spec-ed for DC operation, where they rarely see 12 volts into DCC locos that will see constant 14.5 volts. Now, if they were selling locos that are DC only, makes sense. Onboard locos factory-equipped for DCC, it doesn't make sense. Most folks will not be dialing back the voltage, even if they understood the source of the problem.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jun 28, 2015 8:11:38 GMT -8
OK, somebody who understands voltage and circuits can help out here. On the Genesis light board in the SDP45 I was working on the voltage on the front and rear light tabs was 3+ volts. Athearn attaches 2 bulbs in parallel to each tab. Does that mean each bulb gets 3+ volts or 1.5+ volts?
Bob
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Post by NS4122 on Jun 28, 2015 8:14:15 GMT -8
Agree on the track voltage. I run 12.5 myself. But what Athearn's doing is putting bulbs spec-ed for DC operation, where they rarely see 12 volts into DCC locos that will see constant 14.5 volts. Now, if they were selling locos that are DC only, makes sense. Onboard locos factory-equipped for DCC, it doesn't make sense. Most folks will not be dialing back the voltage, even if they understood the source of the problem. The bulbs we're talking about are 1.5 volt bulbs. That's the only voltage they will get coming out of the Athearn light board no matter what the track voltage is (up to the board's rated limit) on either DC or DCC. Please tell me how 1.5 volt bulbs will ever see 12 or 14.5 volts from the light board. Anything much over 1.5 volts will burn them out, so the output of the light board can't exceed 1.5 volts. As long as you don't exceed the input voltage limit of the light board, the track voltage does not matter. |
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Post by NS4122 on Jun 28, 2015 8:59:47 GMT -8
OK, somebody who understands voltage and circuits can help out here. On the Genesis light board in the SDP45 I was working on the voltage on the front and rear light tabs was 3+ volts. Athearn attaches 2 bulbs in parallel to each tab. Does that mean each bulb gets 3+ volts or 1.5+ volts? Bob In a parallel circuit, the voltage across each of the components is the same. This means each bulb is getting 3 volts. If they are 1.5 volt bulbs they won't last very long. I wonder if your light board is defective or they switched to 3 volt bulbs (not likely)? On a positive note, 3 volts is good for LED's. |
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jun 28, 2015 9:20:42 GMT -8
Agree on the track voltage. I run 12.5 myself. But what Athearn's doing is putting bulbs spec-ed for DC operation, where they rarely see 12 volts into DCC locos that will see constant 14.5 volts. Now, if they were selling locos that are DC only, makes sense. Onboard locos factory-equipped for DCC, it doesn't make sense. Most folks will not be dialing back the voltage, even if they understood the source of the problem. The bulbs we're talking about are 1.5 volt bulbs. That's the only voltage they will get coming out of the Athearn light board no matter what the track voltage is (up to the board's rated limit) on either DC or DCC. Please tell me how 1.5 volt bulbs will ever see 12 or 14.5 volts from the light board. Anything much over 1.5 volts will burn them out, so the output of the light board can't exceed 1.5 volts. As long as you don't exceed the input voltage limit of the light board, the track voltage does not matter.
I'm inclined to agree with CSXT. The 1.5V output is regulated either on the board itself from the manufacturer, or by adding resistance in the 12v function circuit. The bulbs that Athearn uses are rated for 15mA. With a 12v nominal function output voltage, the circuit would require at least 700 ohms of resistance to drop the remaining 10.5v. Anything higher than 12v would require more resistance.
I would say it's a combination of overdriving cheaply constructed bulbs.
Donnell |
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Post by Dear Leader on Jun 28, 2015 9:21:06 GMT -8
Should have just upgraded them to Monster LEDs. Simple. Guys, this is the answer! Convert to LEDs. Stop complaining, Athearn doesn't care what you say, want, or think. They are not customer orientated, they are about using the cheapest materials, maximizing their profits, and listening to us grip, laughing, while we are still buying their products. Change out to LEDs, your going to have to anyway, unless you want to run dark diesels, stop complaining to people on this and other boards, who can do nothing for you, other than to pat you on the back and say, "there, there", and to Athearn, which doesn't care!
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Post by Mark R. on Jun 28, 2015 10:07:24 GMT -8
The Athearn boards have a 1.5 volt regulator on them - not resistors. These regulators are designed to support two of the 1.5 volt 15ma bulbs. The regulation is dependant on the load of the bulbs being used. You probably measured 3 volts without the bulbs connected or lit.
The regulators are also designed for a maximum voltage (12 volts ?). Anything above that will bleed through a small percentage .... and it doesn't take much additional voltage to over drive a 1.5 volt bulb.
Resistors work fine on a decoder where there is a constant calculatable voltage, but resistors are not a good solution when the supply voltage is variable like that in a DC environment - hence the voltage regulator which is designed to produce a given output voltage through various input voltages.
Mark.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jun 28, 2015 12:26:03 GMT -8
.....You probably measured 3 volts without the bulbs connected or lit. Yep, didn't think about that, duh! Resistors work fine on a decoder where there is a constant calculatable voltage, but resistors are not a good solution when the supply voltage is variable like that in a DC environment - hence the voltage regulator which is designed to produce a given output voltage through various input voltages. Mark. Agree on that. That's why when I designed my second version of a Athearn RTR replacement light board I used a design with voltage regulators and resistors to get exact voltage (within the tolerances of the regulator). Bob  |
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Post by Dear Leader on Jun 28, 2015 14:30:30 GMT -8
Interesting is the bulbs on my Overland models have never burned out. Better quality bulbs perhaps?
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Post by ChessieFan1978 on Jun 28, 2015 20:18:15 GMT -8
They need to switch to LEDS period! The bulbs suck .
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Post by mlehman on Jun 28, 2015 22:37:53 GMT -8
The Athearn boards have a 1.5 volt regulator on them - not resistors. These regulators are designed to support two of the 1.5 volt 15ma bulbs. The regulation is dependant on the load of the bulbs being used. You probably measured 3 volts without the bulbs connected or lit. The regulators are also designed for a maximum voltage (12 volts ?). Anything above that will bleed through a small percentage .... and it doesn't take much additional voltage to over drive a 1.5 volt bulb. Resistors work fine on a decoder where there is a constant calculatable voltage, but resistors are not a good solution when the supply voltage is variable like that in a DC environment - hence the voltage regulator which is designed to produce a given output voltage through various input voltages. Mark. What Mark said. I didn't want to wade into all that. That's why I phrased things the way I did. "But what Athearn's doing is putting bulbs spec-ed for DC operation, where they rarely see 12 volts into DCC locos that will see constant 14.5 volts." Yes, they're not 12 volt bulbs, but they are bulbs spec-ed as if the supply was always 12 volts. Overdrive them and same result. The issue is still that the bulbs are not being spec-ed correctly. In reality, the same bulb is not going to look and act right on both DC and DCC because of the wide variation in voltage between the two modes. I'm certain Athearn knows this. I know I've discussed it with various folks over the last 5 or 6 years since I became aware of the problem. Why they don't care is a mystery to me. Despite what some say that a bulb will always look better, good circuit design with LEDs yields 90% or more of what a bulb delivers. I'm generally not one to complain about prices, but for the asking price for new locos these days, this is really as much a quality issue as much as an appearance issue. And no matter how good a bulb looks when lit, it's a bitter disappointment when it doesn't light at all. |
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Post by bigblow69 on Jun 29, 2015 8:24:27 GMT -8
"Popular Consensus" reading these forum posts would be that bulbs should be did away with. I couldn't agree more. We should do poll and see how may people want led's vs bulbs.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jun 29, 2015 10:49:28 GMT -8
"Popular Consensus" reading these forum posts would be that bulbs should be did away with. I couldn't agree more. We should do poll and see how may people want led's vs bulbs. And what good would a poll do? Other than get tempers raised and Athearn blasted a little more? It surely serves no purpose to be the light that changes Athearn's mind. Athearn I'm sure has been peppered with descent from people about the bulbs. I'd bet a dollar, that it all about economics. If they go to LED's, circuit boards and manufacturing would need to be changed and that costs money. Also, other than a relative few on this board demanding and complaining about the bulbs and switching to LED's, Athearn is pumping out these models in the thousands and people are still buying. If I was in business and had about 1% of my product slammed by individuals, most of which still buy my product because I'm the only supplier, why should I invest thousands of dollars in revamping my product. Those thousands is profit down the drain and holding the line on price seems to be an important factor in the hobby of model railroading. Not all manufacturers LED's are that much better than Athearn's bulbs. The LED's in my BLI E8's leave a lot to be desired. The LED's in my Intermountain SD40-2W were pitiful. I've never had an Athearn bulb burn out. I've gotten a model, an EMD GP15-1 in CNW, that came with a blown beacon bulb. It was a pain in the backside to open the shell up to get at the bulb since the model was CA'd together to withstand a direct hit from a battleship! But I got the new bulb by Minitronics, which is part of Circuitron, installed and properly working. One solution for Athearn could be to use a higher quality bulb like the Circuitron product. But, I'm sure the bulbs Athearn uses are cranked out in China for pennies, while the Circuitron bulb would cost quarters. |
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jun 29, 2015 10:50:00 GMT -8
If you do a poll one of the options probably should be -
"prefer bulb IF a high quality bulb"
I'm thinking here of something along the lines of the Miniatronics bulbs.
Bob
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jun 29, 2015 10:53:42 GMT -8
If you do a poll one of the options probably should be - "prefer bulb IF a high quality bulb" I'm thinking here of something along the lines of the Miniatronics bulbs. Bob I believe it is all about the bottom line. Since people are still buying the product why change and make less profit. I agree that the Circuitron Minitronics bulbs are FAR SUPERIOR to the Athearn bulb. But at retail price, those things are not cheap. |
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Post by atsfan on Jun 29, 2015 12:01:46 GMT -8
Poll is up
Vote early, vote often
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Post by Spikre on Jun 30, 2015 11:10:01 GMT -8
 atsfan, You forgot No lites in Locos,so that Poll is Flawed !! Spikre 
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