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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2015 7:44:28 GMT -8
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Post by buffalobill on Nov 14, 2015 7:50:08 GMT -8
Looks really good, a car Dave can make a number of runs with. I guess we will have to wait for the Burlington Northern one. Bill
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Post by riogrande on Nov 14, 2015 8:09:54 GMT -8
I know a lot have been complaining that the Walthers 2-bay Airslide wasn't up to their standards so this should be good news. I built 4 of the old kit Walthers versions back around 25 years ago, and have always liked them; true, they aren't up to the fine standards of Tangents amazing freight cars. The cars I built were BN (green), SP (gray), D&RGW (gray) and Cotton Belt (gray, all of which I saw in D&RGW trains.
That said, I have been adding more and more of Tangents products to my fleet in the past couple years and really like them alot. This is good news!
BTW, I missed out on most of the "Dry-Flo" hoppers and only got the Union Pacific model so do hope Tangent re-runs those so I can pick a couple more. They are perfect for 1970's and 1980's railroading.
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Post by bdhicks on Nov 14, 2015 8:23:56 GMT -8
Not a lot of operators I'm interested in, but I am very happy to have a better quality Airslide out. I'll pick up the 90s GATX repaints and then I'll see what future runs hold.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2015 8:34:26 GMT -8
Interested in MP Styles...but will wait and see.
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 14, 2015 8:38:16 GMT -8
Play Taps for the Walthers model. This one looks beautiful. I can use so many of these.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2015 8:44:39 GMT -8
Play Taps for the Walthers model. This one looks beautiful. I can use so many of these. YES!
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Post by stevewagner on Nov 14, 2015 8:45:00 GMT -8
How does the cubic capacity of the cars beautifully replicated by the new Tangent models compare with that of cars represented by the Walthers models (of which I happily built quite a few years ago)? I thought that two-bay Airslides came in at least two different sizes, with the Walthers models being based on the earlier, smaller version.
P.S. Though I've ridden on ex-GM&O trackage only once (from Chicago to St. Louis on Amtrak, probably in the winter of 1986), I am very fond of Gulf, Mobile & Ohio freight cars that include the comma in that classic railroad's name, of which quite a few were still to be seen then.
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Post by bncascadegreen on Nov 14, 2015 8:45:07 GMT -8
Looks really good, a car Dave can make a number of runs with. I guess we will have to wait for the Burlington Northern one. Bill I already sent them a message!!!!
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Post by bdhicks on Nov 14, 2015 8:51:15 GMT -8
How does the cubic capacity of the cars beautifully replicated by the new Tangent models compare with that of cars represented by the Walthers models (of which I happily built quite a few years ago)? I thought that two-bay Airslides came in at least two different sizes, with the Walthers models being based on the earlier, smaller version. These look to be the same size as the Walthers car. The bigger ones have 8-rung end ladders and the Tangent and Walthers models have 7-rung ladders.
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Post by riogrande on Nov 14, 2015 8:52:40 GMT -8
Jim Eagers Color Guide shows two Airslides for Rio Grande. One group was a gray 100-ton two compartment Airslide numbered 15925-15987 used in bulk sugar service built August 1960. Another group of double Airslides, the 15935-15939 and 15940-15949 was painted Rio Grande freight car orange with the ACTION Road herald built Nov 1971. The photo's show then ends which appear to match the Tangent car in the website photos.
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Post by atsfan on Nov 14, 2015 9:48:49 GMT -8
Tangent is awesome. No year long wait nonsense. Several of these are headed my way.
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Post by tom on Nov 14, 2015 9:49:07 GMT -8
Another great looking model from Tangent! Years ago I had the Walthers version of this car but the bulky details really detracted from this. Mine disappeared into a land fill quite a while ago.
The Tangent car really captures the looks of the prototype. The B&O or GM&O car will make a great addition to my Penn Central freight trains!
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Post by curtmc on Nov 14, 2015 9:54:06 GMT -8
Given the 4180cf has already been done by Walthers, I'm disappointed the new Tangent car is not one of the later/larger varieties (4556/4895) that became more common in the 1980s. IMHO the later versions are the cars we needed more.
By the way, the Walthers 4180cf model wasn't bad as a $5 kit when released almost 30 years ago (1986 I think). Those were the first "modern" car Walthers did. I can recall picking up many of the kits (at $3 or $4 each) in the late 1980s when a shop in Fredericksburg, VA closed. Later at $10 RTR street price the Walthers car wasn't that bad of a deal, but the current $27.98 MSRP is absurd IMHO. The Tangent car price (at $40-45, even for street price) puts it in a category where the only reaction can be "it should be a lot better". It will be, but there will still be some who would prefer 2 or 3 of the old Walthers RTR (or 4-6 of the kits) instead of one Tangent.
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Post by bdhicks on Nov 14, 2015 10:09:34 GMT -8
I was just about to order some and boy is that a bad time for Tangent's website security certificate to expire.
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Post by Christian on Nov 14, 2015 10:20:45 GMT -8
By the way, the Walthers 4180cf model wasn't bad as a $5 kit when released almost 30 years ago (1986 I think). Those were the first "modern" car Walthers did. In Trains Miniature pipeline when Walthers bought the company. These new models show how far both manufacturing and expectations have come.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 14, 2015 10:22:01 GMT -8
By the way, the Walthers 4180cf model wasn't bad as a $5 kit when released almost 30 years ago (1986 I think). When they came out, I wouldn't have taken one if you GAVE me a dollar to take it. It was bad then. It still is. Ed
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Post by curtmc on Nov 14, 2015 10:26:49 GMT -8
Yep... built to a different standard in a day when the manufacturer (not importer) sold to the brick and mortar shops (often through distributors) at 40+% off MSRP and the car model production costs had to be kept below 50% of the MSRP. So Walthers had to produce their cars for about $3. Today Tangent can put $30 into production costs and still make a profit.
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Post by curtmc on Nov 14, 2015 10:29:41 GMT -8
By the way, the Walthers 4180cf model wasn't bad as a $5 kit when released almost 30 years ago (1986 I think). When they came out, I wouldn't have taken one if you GAVE me a dollar to take it. It was bad then. It still is. Ed I'll call BULL HOCKEY on that claim... Back in 1987 it was the only game in town and the alternative was doing a kitbash of the Gloor-craft craftsman single-bay cars (and 2 of those would have set you back $20+ for just the kits). The Walthers car was done when the molded on details were the standard and getting correct paint on a correct body was rare. It was an absolute Godsend to "modern" modelers of the 1980s and they flew off the shelves even as kits. The cars sold VERY WELL for more than a decade... Walthers produced THOUSANDS of them, even selling out almost immediately on the GACX 12-packs that they did (back when the 12-packs were about $60 street price). Within the first 5 years of their 4180cf Airslide production Walthers offered 26 correct schemes on the car - and only 2 of the Tangent first run duplicate those earliest Walthers offerings. So Tangent has a boatload of other schemes they can eventually do (and I can see that as a reason why they decided to do the 4180cf instead of a later version).
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Post by drolsen on Nov 14, 2015 10:53:10 GMT -8
I personally can't think of a Walthers prototype that I would be more excited to see redone as a high-quality model. Although the prototype could be seen all over for four decades, they were rarely seen in more than ones and twos, at least in my area. I just need about a half dozen to serve a bakery along the line I'm modeling, so I want them to be Tangent quality. I'll be ordering the two GATX repaints, and hopefully some kits when he gets to them.
Dave
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Post by drolsen on Nov 14, 2015 11:05:10 GMT -8
So Tangent has a boatload of other schemes they can eventually do (and I can see that as a reason why they decided to do the 4180cf instead of a later version). Don't forget the second key criteria for the selection of prototypes for Tangent's models: they fit in David's modeling era. I'm glad to see all these models of '60s and '70s prototypes that survived into the '90s I agree that the Walthers model was a quality car for the molded detail era. It looked quite good compared to Athearn models from the same time period. Unfortunately the molded details are a bear to upgrade; I have one that I never finished - not sure what I'll do with it now. Dave
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 14, 2015 11:08:02 GMT -8
Being the "only game in town" and "selling out almost immediately" does not magically transform a dog into a decent model. Sure, if you HAD to have one (or more), you'd be sore tempted to bite. Many obviously bit. I wanted a good one. It didn't happen. I waited (perhaps an overstatement). And I am rewarded.
Huzzah!
Ed
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Post by curtmc on Nov 14, 2015 11:10:14 GMT -8
Although the prototype could be seen all over for four decades, they were rarely seen in more than ones and twos, at least in my area. I just need about a half dozen to serve a bakery along the line I'm modeling, so I want them to be Tangent quality. I'll be ordering the two GATX repaints, and hopefully some kits when he gets to them. Dave Dave, I'll agree with that. I might have to get one of the GATX repaints. But it is actually a car I'm downsizing my fleet on. We have a group of railfans in NoVA that meets monthly and we were having a discussion earlier this year about how the airslide hoppers pretty much totally disappeared in the last decade except for buffer cars. One guy (the local freight car guru who probably has 15,000+ slides and slide scans of freight cars) was wondering if 95% have been scrapped. The only place any of us could recall seeing a couple of them together in non-buffer service in last decade was on a local in the Chicago area.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 14, 2015 11:14:27 GMT -8
Dave (just above) brings up a point. IF you wanted raw material to make an acceptable model, the Walthers was the one and only way to go. I thought about doing the same thing. But I had MANY other projects to do first.
As much as I like Airslides, I could wait. Now, with boxcars, I couldn't. Which explains how Athearn cars, also with molded on detail, DID appear on my layout.
Bit I NEVER liked molded on detail. And, as soon as something better (or MUCH better) came along, replacements happened. The last cars I bought that did have that were "moldy" were the set of Athearn GN "circus cars". That was a take-it-or-leave-it. And I took it. But not since.
Ed
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Post by curtmc on Nov 14, 2015 11:14:23 GMT -8
Suggestion... Use decals to make it a "buffer" car. Then sell it for $20+ to somebody needing buffer cars for the "operator" series of ScaleTrains tank cars. Because those that buy the cheaper "operators" series crude oil tankers are going to be less concerned with details and more apt to want lower detailed buffer cars instead of spending $45 each for Tangent buffer cars...
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 14, 2015 11:26:05 GMT -8
Don't forget the second key criteria for the selection of prototypes for Tangent's models: they fit in David's modeling era. I'm glad to see all these models of '60s and '70s prototypes that survived into the '90s It seems the best thing to do (if you don't already) is simply give in and model the same time frame! Fortunately, we are on the same page already. Burrus Mills in Saginaw, TX is a big customer/shipper in my modeling scheme, so onesie-twosies don't cut it for me. I'll need a handful and then some. I already got started sacrificing my Walthers cars. One of them is now this weird Air Action car, a hybrid of a Pullman Standard 4750 and one of these big Airslides. It truly is a very disturbing sight to behold...
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Post by atsfan on Nov 14, 2015 11:27:12 GMT -8
By the way, the Walthers 4180cf model wasn't bad as a $5 kit when released almost 30 years ago (1986 I think). When they came out, I wouldn't have taken one if you GAVE me a dollar to take it. It was bad then. It still is. Ed Come on man. They are not that bad. Need new roofwalks but back in the day these were awesome cars. I still have some and they work fine.
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Post by atsfan on Nov 14, 2015 11:28:10 GMT -8
Dave (just above) brings up a point. IF you wanted raw material to make an acceptable model, the Walthers was the one and only way to go. I thought about doing the same thing. But I had MANY other projects to do first. As much as I like Airslides, I could wait. Now, with boxcars, I couldn't. Which explains how Athearn cars, also with molded on detail, DID appear on my layout. Bit I NEVER liked molded on detail. And, as soon as something better (or MUCH better) came along, replacements happened. The last cars I bought that did have that were "moldy" were the set of Athearn GN "circus cars". That was a take-it-or-leave-it. And I took it. But not since. Ed As soon as something better came along in this case meant 30 years. That is much of anyone's lifetime.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2015 12:02:44 GMT -8
Given the 4180cf has already been done by Walthers, I'm disappointed the new Tangent car is not one of the later/larger varieties (4556/4895) that became more common in the 1980s. IMHO the later versions are the cars we needed more. By the way, the Walthers 4180cf model wasn't bad as a $5 kit when released almost 30 years ago (1986 I think). Those were the first "modern" car Walthers did. I can recall picking up many of the kits (at $3 or $4 each) in the late 1980s when a shop in Fredericksburg, VA closed. Later at $10 RTR street price the Walthers car wasn't that bad of a deal, but the current $27.98 MSRP is absurd IMHO. The Tangent car price (at $40-45, even for street price) puts it in a category where the only reaction can be "it should be a lot better". It will be, but there will still be some who would prefer 2 or 3 of the old Walthers RTR (or 4-6 of the kits) instead of one Tangent. I'll buy the Tangent cars...but I was one of those banging the drum for the higher quality model. I had a ton of those old Walthers cars for years...I liked them...they had decent details for their day. This is a much better model...just a surprise...that's all. I agree on the later versions...as MP had both 4180's and 4655's...
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 14, 2015 12:16:32 GMT -8
As soon as something better came along in this case meant 30 years. That is much of anyone's lifetime. Yes. I've noticed. Ed
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