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Post by cemr5396 on Sept 21, 2023 5:41:48 GMT -8
I just saw a comment on FB claiming that the truck wheelbase is wrong and the radiator fan is too small in diameter on the models, can anyone confirm or deny?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 21, 2023 6:24:16 GMT -8
I just received my RS-11, BN 4195 in the green scheme. Haven't had a chance to run it yet or test the sound, but here's what I've noted about the paint and detail. The green is "bright", not quite as yellow(?) as the Overland photos made it look but... I have some red-green colorblindness... so I'm really not well equipped to judge color, especially BN green. Good for the model manufacturers, I guess, and since BN green could/did vary a lot, I just run it all. I don't find it objectionable, though, and it does seem better in-person. I picked 4195 because it was one of the earliest BN repaints (by 1972) whereas a bunch of the RS-11's kept their NP paint until 1974 or 1975. Turns out 4195 (the real one) may have been a little unique, the green on the side sills wraps through the stepwells and across the pilot, whereas most (all?) the later BN RS-11 repaints had all-black pilots. So 4195 (the model) more closely resembles units like 4193 and 4197 which were re-painted a little later. That's a pretty road-number-specific issue so I'm not sure how worked up I am about it yet. The model also has a small white stripe on three of the 4 cab faces (including both doors) but I've been unable to find a SINGLE photo anywhere, books or internet, of ANY BN RS-11 with this feature. So I have no idea how/why Rapido decided to add that. The precise horn, antenna, and flasher locations varied some unit-to-unit, again Rapido's model is "generic", every road number is the same. It's "generally" correct though I'm not sure the horn itself is exactly the right type. Rapido's horn has the back-facing trumpet offset right whereas the 3-chimes on the prototype appear to have the back-facing trumpet centered. Sorry, I'm not an expert in horn types. The big NP bell looks good enough and the location looks about right. The flasher is an early style, BN changed these rather frequently. Two other little nitpicks: First, the drop steps on the ends are ridiculously tall/long. I think they did this to bridge the longer-than-prototype gap that exists between the models when coupled up, but when the drops steps are up they look pretty goofy. Second, the prototype had 4-hose MU clusters, not 5. Otherwise... the paint is really nicely applied, the details are all present and accounted for, no shipping damage nor assembly errors, and the handrails are nice and straight. They did lower the radiator fan a bit, I didn't find the first-run fan objectionable but they did fix that issue. I will probably spring for NP-BN "patch" jobs 4193 and 4197 since they retained their NP paint well into 1975. Last but not least... it appears to have ground lights on BOTH sides. :-) Update: near moment of minor panic! Put the model on the layout, power on, and... nothing. So I took it over to the test track and hooked it up to Lokprogrammer... couldn't find a supported decoder. Opened the model up... which is MUCH easier on this version... and the decoder had come unplugged from the board. It's working fine now. One note, Function F10 is supposed to be the independent brake, but it doesn't work... the decoder is programmed with the brake sound, but no logical function. It's an easy fix with a Lokprogrammer but if you don't have one, and you're wondering why the braking feature won't work... thats why. The sound seems good and the model runs smoothly with only a slight gear noise (with the sound off). I haven't picked my RS-11's up yet. BN 4195 was repainted BN at Livingston, Montana. So if the green doesn't match standard BN, we know who to blame. I'm also pretty anxious about the nose color on the NP painted ones. The color in the video looks WAY off (should be imitation gold, not pale yellow). Plus side is that weathering THOSE is not an unreasonable thing to do.
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abm
Junior Member
Posts: 65
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Post by abm on Sept 21, 2023 6:32:14 GMT -8
A few other notes/observations for anyone who might be interested:
I ended up ditching the Rapido sound file for one of ESU's 251B files, which I think is simply better than Rapido's.
The speaker is a different design than the first-run models, and to me sounds pretty good. They redesigned the main board such that Scale Sound's first-run RS-11 speaker won't fit.
Class lights appear to be only one color this time, and front class light control is Aux 7 (Rapido actuates it with a sound slot so it's not readily "visible"). I think rear class lights are Aux 9.
I'm still not sure how I feel about the BN paint issues. They're minor, and the paint itself is nicely done, but at this price point I think roadnumber-specific paint/detailing starts to become a consideration. Other manufacturers have done it before/are doing it now, Athearn Genesis F's and Geeps for instance... though they've screwed it up a few times too.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 21, 2023 7:05:49 GMT -8
My recollection is that Athearn had number-specific detailing and paint on their first BN SW1000's. In particular, one came with the narrow white stripes.
How many years ago was that?
(Can't really tell anymore from the Athearn website, as historical information seems to be viewed as a waste of electrons.)
Ed
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abm
Junior Member
Posts: 65
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Post by abm on Sept 21, 2023 7:25:04 GMT -8
My recollection is that Athearn had number-specific detailing and paint on their first BN SW1000's. In particular, one came with the narrow white stripes. How many years ago was that? (Can't really tell anymore from the Athearn website, as historical information seems to be viewed as a waste of electrons.) Ed I have one of those SW1000's stashed away somewhere, they were like an early version of the "RTR" line with added details, but not quite Genesis? It was a while ago for sure, like 12 years, at least. Hardly an expensive model! I think that may have been the first model I ever converted to DCC? Anyway... Rapido wouldn't be the only mfg'er that's struggled with the NP yellow/gold, it's hard to find good photos of the prototype where it hasn't faded badly. I don't know what's the chicken and what's the egg: do the model mfg'ers screw it up because they do poor research, or do they do it on purpose because so many modelers do poor research too and assume the faded yellow is correct for as-delivered? I remember there was a bunch of back-and-forth like that over Athearn's more-recent Genesis NP F9's. It seemed after-the-fact like the "we did it that way on purpose" was a bit of a cover-up. But similiar to shades of green, in this case I think I can live with it. I'm considering dropping a note to Rapido about 4195. I mean it's a really nice model overall, I think this second iteration of the RS-11 is great. But evidently they just grabbed that road number from the hat, and no one really bothered to LOOK at a few photos of the real 4195. It's rather obviously a little different than the others. I realize it's an added SKU to manage, so on and so forth, but as you point out... number-specific paint/detailing is nothing new...
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Post by Baikal on Sept 21, 2023 7:44:19 GMT -8
The yellow stripes on the D&H RS-11s are too light. They look worse due to the gray and blue being a little too dark.
The yellow on the EL U25Bs is too dark / intense. Should be less saturated, like butter, not like Santa Fe or B&O yellow. How many people remember what EL colors looked like in person?
<----------- <-----------
<-----------
Compare to Rapido's yellow:
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Post by cemr5396 on Sept 21, 2023 7:52:43 GMT -8
But evidently they just grabbed that road number from the hat, and no one really bothered to LOOK at a few photos of the real 4195. It's rather obviously a little different than the others. I realize it's an added SKU to manage, so on and so forth, but as you point out... number-specific paint/detailing is nothing new.. It's also something that Rapido has never bothered with, to my knowledge. They will somewhat regularly make different 'versions' of one railroad's loco (whether that is determined by era, details, paint scheme, or all of the above) but they never go to the extra effort of doing anything road number specific. Even more so, they can't even be bothered to pick locomotives that match the model they intend to build. If they wanted to make BN RS-11s and make three road numbers or however many they did, I'm sure they could have found three units that were more or less identical if they just dug around a bit, rather than doing the old "pull numbers out of a hat" routine.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 21, 2023 7:58:31 GMT -8
I'm pretty sure this is one of those BN SW1000's: The color of the nose on NP diesels (well, most of them) is not that difficult to match, or come close to. Do an image search for "imitation gold" and eliminate all the junk jewelry. If your color guess looks like it would fit comfortably in with those, good. Not GREAT, but good. If it doesn't, try again. If it looks like pale lemon yellow, try again. Here's a typical sample: That said, Rapido was in contact with the "official" NPRHS modeler guy. He could easily have supplied them with the color drift cards that NPRHS laboriously produced. If they had asked. Would YOU have asked? Now, I do know that some folks are producing models labeled "primed for grime". THAT'S different. I've got some. Even some patched NP F's. Except for that, models should be painted in fresh just-delivered colors. Maybe with the gloss toned down a lot. Ed
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Post by Baikal on Sept 21, 2023 8:18:14 GMT -8
I just saw a comment on FB claiming that the truck wheelbase is wrong and the radiator fan is too small in diameter on the models, can anyone confirm or deny?
The Rapido fan is 6-8 inches too small diameter. It should extend just to the point where the roof - side radius begins. Nothing that a replacement fan, some bondo & paint can't fix.
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Post by prr 4467 on Sept 21, 2023 9:21:38 GMT -8
In the prototype thread referenced above, go back to page 1 and see the good roof shot of the NH RS-11. The fan housing appears to actually be slightly inset from the point where the side radius begins. In any case, it is clearly smaller than the housing on the adjacent Alco FA unit also in the photo.
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Post by drsvelte on Sept 21, 2023 10:21:01 GMT -8
I don't think so. This photo shows the fan well inset from the roof-side radius.
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Post by lvrr325 on Sept 21, 2023 10:51:00 GMT -8
Atlas has offered single number paint variations a number of times now.
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Post by Baikal on Sept 21, 2023 10:52:08 GMT -8
This photo shows the fan well inset from the roof-side radius.
An optical illusion, or two different fan diameters?
This photo shows the fan going all the way to the roof-side curve.
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Post by 690 on Sept 21, 2023 10:53:41 GMT -8
No, it doesn’t. It appears to be consistent with the other pictures of the RS-11s.
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Post by drsvelte on Sept 21, 2023 11:03:39 GMT -8
Good grief, that's the best you can do?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 21, 2023 11:07:49 GMT -8
This is a quite good photo showing the roof fan: www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2617576It clearly shows how wide the fan is, compared the the body/roof. It also clearly shows, at least in this photo, that the grill is square with the body, not randomly inserted. As on Rapido models. Ed
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Post by richardthomasatal on Sept 21, 2023 11:13:45 GMT -8
I just saw a comment on FB claiming that the truck wheelbase is wrong and the radiator fan is too small in diameter on the models, can anyone confirm or deny? I tried squeezing really hard but I could not get anal retentive enough to care when running my BN #4192.
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Post by Baikal on Sept 21, 2023 11:14:41 GMT -8
Good grief, that's the best you can do?
Wot? Who 'ya gonna' believe, Rapido or your lying eyes?
NH 1404's fan goes all the way to the roof-side curve, and maybe more. What I CAN'T prove is there isn't two fan diameters.
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Post by wmcbride on Sept 21, 2023 12:00:34 GMT -8
I just received my RS-11, BN 4195 in the green scheme. Haven't had a chance to run it yet or test the sound, but here's what I've noted about the paint and detail. The green is "bright", not quite as yellow(?) as the Overland photos made it look but... I have some red-green colorblindness... so I'm really not well equipped to judge color, especially BN green. Good for the model manufacturers, I guess, and since BN green could/did vary a lot, I just run it all. I don't find it objectionable, though, and it does seem better in-person. I picked 4195 because it was one of the earliest BN repaints (by 1972) whereas a bunch of the RS-11's kept their NP paint until 1974 or 1975. Turns out 4195 (the real one) may have been a little unique, the green on the side sills wraps through the stepwells and across the pilot, whereas most (all?) the later BN RS-11 repaints had all-black pilots. So 4195 (the model) more closely resembles units like 4193 and 4197 which were re-painted a little later. That's a pretty road-number-specific issue so I'm not sure how worked up I am about it yet. The model also has a small white stripe on three of the 4 cab faces (including both doors) but I've been unable to find a SINGLE photo anywhere, books or internet, of ANY BN RS-11 with this feature. So I have no idea how/why Rapido decided to add that. The precise horn, antenna, and flasher locations varied some unit-to-unit, again Rapido's model is "generic", every road number is the same. It's "generally" correct though I'm not sure the horn itself is exactly the right type. Rapido's horn has the back-facing trumpet offset right whereas the 3-chimes on the prototype appear to have the back-facing trumpet centered. Sorry, I'm not an expert in horn types. The big NP bell looks good enough and the location looks about right. The flasher is an early style, BN changed these rather frequently. Two other little nitpicks: First, the drop steps on the ends are ridiculously tall/long. I think they did this to bridge the longer-than-prototype gap that exists between the models when coupled up, but when the drops steps are up they look pretty goofy. Second, the prototype had 4-hose MU clusters, not 5. Otherwise... the paint is really nicely applied, the details are all present and accounted for, no shipping damage nor assembly errors, and the handrails are nice and straight. They did lower the radiator fan a bit, I didn't find the first-run fan objectionable but they did fix that issue. I will probably spring for NP-BN "patch" jobs 4193 and 4197 since they retained their NP paint well into 1975. Last but not least... it appears to have ground lights on BOTH sides. :-) Update: near moment of minor panic! Put the model on the layout, power on, and... nothing. So I took it over to the test track and hooked it up to Lokprogrammer... couldn't find a supported decoder. Opened the model up... which is MUCH easier on this version... and the decoder had come unplugged from the board. It's working fine now. One note, Function F10 is supposed to be the independent brake, but it doesn't work... the decoder is programmed with the brake sound, but no logical function. It's an easy fix with a Lokprogrammer but if you don't have one, and you're wondering why the braking feature won't work... thats why. The sound seems good and the model runs smoothly with only a slight gear noise (with the sound off). If BN 4195 has ground lights on both sides, can anyone with a Patched NP or straight NP unit confirm the same... Bill McBride
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Post by ambluco on Sept 21, 2023 12:17:37 GMT -8
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 21, 2023 12:27:52 GMT -8
Seems like people just don't want to look at a picture showing a reality that they might disagree with. Here it is, anyway: That's LV 400, by the way. The hatch beyond the fan shroud stops right where the sharp curve at the edge starts. The fan shroud is narrower. Therefore the edge of the fan shroud is not at the beginning of the sharp curve of the edge. Ed
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Post by Baikal on Sept 21, 2023 12:35:42 GMT -8
So maybe two (or more) different fan diameters?
The RS-27 roof fan is quite a bit larger, extending beyond the roof-side curve.
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Post by ambluco on Sept 21, 2023 12:48:32 GMT -8
I don't think two different sizes, at least on the RS11. It's not mentioned in any articles I've read. All kidding aside, I think the NH photo is an illusion due to the grime.
This also was not complained about in the first run. Only the height was.
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Post by win70rob on Sept 21, 2023 14:59:33 GMT -8
I guess I’ve just concluded that I just won’t purchase Rapido Products anymore, I had issues with the osgood Bradley cars, there solution was to purchase new trucks after spending money on a car with bad trucks, I purchased an EP-5 recently, I returned it to my local hobby shop due to bad pantographs, 3 different models later I simply chose to pick up some Walthers cornerstone structures instead. I’m no doctor or lawyer or even an engineer, I’m a blue collar lineman with a family that saves up for nice models. After spending $2100 for 7 RS11s from Rapido, I never thought I could be so disappointed. Strike 3 Rapido
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Post by hudsonyard on Sept 21, 2023 15:47:29 GMT -8
I guess I’ve just concluded that I just won’t purchase Rapido Products anymore, I had issues with the osgood Bradley cars, there solution was to purchase new trucks after spending money on a car with bad trucks, I purchased an EP-5 recently, I returned it to my local hobby shop due to bad pantographs, 3 different models later I simply chose to pick up some Walthers cornerstone structures instead. I’m no doctor or lawyer or even an engineer, I’m a blue collar lineman with a family that saves up for nice models. After spending $2100 for 7 RS11s from Rapido, I never thought I could be so disappointed. Strike 3 Rapido
it's a case by case deal, which is absolutely ABSURD for a manufacturer in 2023 i'm sorry i know we are all sick of this conversation.
A friend gave me a pair of the single dome tank cars from his mystery box as they don't fit his era, they are pretty nice and roll well, same with my X31s. My f30D flats all needed some level of reassembly, the X72s are N scale weight, i bought a lot of the 40' trailers and they are great...when parts aren't falling off....for 35-50 bucks a car i'm kinda sick of playing skee-lo every time I buy a freight car. I won't even touch their locomotives.
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Post by prr 4467 on Sept 21, 2023 16:09:31 GMT -8
I guess I’ve just concluded that I just won’t purchase Rapido Products anymore, I had issues with the osgood Bradley cars, there solution was to purchase new trucks after spending money on a car with bad trucks, I purchased an EP-5 recently, I returned it to my local hobby shop due to bad pantographs, 3 different models later I simply chose to pick up some Walthers cornerstone structures instead. I’m no doctor or lawyer or even an engineer, I’m a blue collar lineman with a family that saves up for nice models. After spending $2100 for 7 RS11s from Rapido, I never thought I could be so disappointed. Strike 3 Rapido I feel your pain. I once purchased several first run RS-11's, saying "well maybe the dealer just sent me a bad one". Only 25% of the ones I purchased were acceptable, and I eventually ended up just selling even those units, as overall I was just disappointed that so many models (9 of 12 that I owned) could have so many issues.
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Post by cemr5396 on Sept 21, 2023 16:14:32 GMT -8
I don't think two different sizes, at least on the RS11. It's not mentioned in any articles I've read. All kidding aside, I think the NH photo is an illusion due to the grime. This also was not complained about in the first run. Only the height was. It would not be the first time Rapido took something that was fine and managed to screw it up from one run to the next
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Post by locochris on Sept 21, 2023 16:15:09 GMT -8
it's a case by case deal, which is absolutely ABSURD for a manufacturer in 2023 i'm sorry i know we are all sick of this conversation.
A friend gave me a pair of the single dome tank cars from his mystery box as they don't fit his era, they are pretty nice and roll well, same with my X31s. My f30D flats all needed some level of reassembly, the X72s are N scale weight, i bought a lot of the 40' trailers and they are great...when parts aren't falling off....for 35-50 bucks a car i'm kinda sick of playing skee-lo every time I buy a freight car. I won't even touch their locomotives.
I think I had issues with my F30D too, but can't remember what. I still don't know how they got the weight so wrong on the X72's.
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Post by cemr5396 on Sept 21, 2023 16:17:09 GMT -8
it's a case by case deal, which is absolutely ABSURD for a manufacturer in 2023 i'm sorry i know we are all sick of this conversation.
A friend gave me a pair of the single dome tank cars from his mystery box as they don't fit his era, they are pretty nice and roll well, same with my X31s. My f30D flats all needed some level of reassembly, the X72s are N scale weight, i bought a lot of the 40' trailers and they are great...when parts aren't falling off....for 35-50 bucks a car i'm kinda sick of playing skee-lo every time I buy a freight car. I won't even touch their locomotives.
I think I had issues with my F30D too, but can't remember what. I still don't know how they got the weight so wrong on the X72's. simple, they just do not care. I got some 3800 hoppers from the most recent run and they are light as a feather.... even though the ones from the previous runs were perfectly weighted. Goes back to my point about managing to mess up a good thing.
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Post by cera2254 on Sept 21, 2023 17:06:07 GMT -8
I’ve said it before, but it’s not like the NMRA weighting standards are hard to find. There really is no excuse for cars to come not properly weighted.
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