mdq
Full Member
Posts: 129
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Post by mdq on Sept 29, 2023 6:09:05 GMT -8
How they run? From what I've heard it is hit-and-miss
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 29, 2023 6:42:31 GMT -8
How they run? From what I've heard it is hit-and-miss Got my RS-11's home yesterday. Put a couple on the track today. A BN patched NP and a BN......They run nice and smooth.
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mdq
Full Member
Posts: 129
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Post by mdq on Oct 1, 2023 15:39:10 GMT -8
Ha that is good.
A friend of mine has one. It doesn't run very nice. I think he's sending it back
Maybe he got unlucky?
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gnfan
Full Member
Posts: 110
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Post by gnfan on Oct 1, 2023 15:47:11 GMT -8
Ha that is good. A friend of mine has one. It doesn't run very nice. I think he's sending it back Maybe he got unlucky? My NP RS-11 runs smoothly and quietly. I’m very happy with. David B
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 1, 2023 16:33:31 GMT -8
I've since put my third RS-11 on the track. All three run very nicely--a bit better than my also new UP U25B.
I DO have to wonder why the bell sound on the decoder doesn't sound much like the steam bell on top of the short hood.
Ed
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Post by bnsf971 on Oct 2, 2023 14:43:43 GMT -8
I've since put my third RS-11 on the track. All three run very nicely--a bit better than my also new UP U25B. I DO have to wonder why the bell sound on the decoder doesn't sound much like the steam bell on top of the short hood. Ed There are bell options in the settings, but I'm not sure if a "clanger" bell is one of them.
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Post by prr 4467 on Oct 2, 2023 17:41:33 GMT -8
I received my Rapido Seaboard RS-11 today (plain dc) and it is indeed a much better engine than the 12 first run Rapido RS-11's that I did actually own.
I'll give it a score of 9.5 out of 10. The rooftop radiator screen is depressed a bit in the middle, with no good way to fix it from underneath (and I do not want to break it loose just to straighten it a little bit). Perhaps somebody mishandled it? The front pilot is angled a bit high--not bad, but not as well aligned as I would prefer. Coupler height is close to good; despite being a bit high due to the pilot, it was only a shade high relative to Tangent freight cars that are good. The painting, fit and finish is otherwise outstanding. Nothing was broken or loose. The handrails are very straight--much better than the first run Rapido units and actually better than many units from the other guys. I do appreciate that the handrails were very clean, free of plastic nubs, flash, etc. and all the stanchions were pressed fully into the deck piece. That is stellar. There were no sloppy glue marks anywhere--again better than some other guys.
I'm not really a high nose guy, so as cool as this Alco is (I had to have one in this paint) I don't know if I'll get more. However, it gives me hope that the RS-18u units will be worth my buying, and I want to go there.
The only other negative is that it does not coast at all once power is stopped or interrupted. Some other plain dc locos on the market actually will coast a little bit when the power is stopped (due to flywheels and/or gearing). I'm mentioning this but it's only a minor issue for me.
It is almost as quiet as a new Bowser SD40-2 unit, but the Bowsers have the edge in quiet running, at least right out of the box. Still it is a solid runner. I'm breaking it in pretty carefully as recommended by the instructions. (Other manufacturers do not generally provide break-in instructions. Rapido does, though brief).
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 2, 2023 18:57:51 GMT -8
The only other negative is that it does not coast at all once power is stopped or interrupted. Some other plain dc locos on the market actually will coast a little bit when the power is stopped (due to flywheels and/or gearing). I'm mentioning this but it's only a minor issue for me. While flywheels contribute to performance for DC locos, they're unnecessary for DCC (see dirty track--keep-alive, however). Maybe Rapido is using smaller flywheels, assuming "most" of their customers are DCC. Ed
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Post by prr 4467 on Oct 2, 2023 20:28:20 GMT -8
Yes, thought about that, and that may be the case.
However, the Bowser latest run SD40-2's still have pretty good flywheels in them, so they will coast a little bit.
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Post by Baikal on Oct 2, 2023 22:06:22 GMT -8
The only other negative is that it does not coast at all once power is stopped or interrupted. Some other plain dc locos on the market actually will coast a little bit when the power is stopped (due to flywheels and/or gearing). I'm mentioning this but it's only a minor issue for me. While flywheels contribute to performance for DC locos, they're unnecessary for DCC (see dirty track--keep-alive, however). Maybe Rapido is using smaller flywheels, assuming "most" of their customers are DCC. Ed
For some DCC locos, but not all. Lots of pro & con discussion out there. A blanket dismisal of flywheel mechanical drive train smoothing is lke saying digital amplifiers made analog amps unnecessay. Or that digital media made vinyl records unnecessary.
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Post by cemr5396 on Oct 3, 2023 4:40:02 GMT -8
having flywheels will definitely improve how a motor runs, DCC or not. And the heavier the flywheel is, the better.
Athearn Genesis and Bowser/Intermountain (they use the exact same motor these days) are the ones with the biggest mounted flywheel on their motors that I know of right now and in my experience they are also my best running locomotives. That is no accident.
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Post by cemr5396 on Oct 3, 2023 4:41:50 GMT -8
While flywheels contribute to performance for DC locos, they're unnecessary for DCC (see dirty track--keep-alive, however). Maybe Rapido is using smaller flywheels, assuming "most" of their customers are DCC. Or, you can make more flywheels out of a given chunk of brass rod if you make each one smaller. $$$$.
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Post by prr 4467 on Oct 3, 2023 5:24:26 GMT -8
To be honest, upon further review the RS-11 is nice enough to need more even though I prefer low nose units, so I already ordered a second SAL RS-11, but just plain dc without sound. They only have white class lights anyway...
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 3, 2023 5:25:34 GMT -8
having flywheels will definitely improve how a motor runs, DCC or not. And the heavier the flywheel is, the better. Athearn Genesis and Bowser/Intermountain (they use the exact same motor these days) are the ones with the biggest mounted flywheel on their motors that I know of right now and in my experience they are also my best running locomotives. That is no accident. Someone with a different view, backed up with examples: "The couple of Atlas diesels I have left also have flywheels and while they're very smooth runners, I have a couple of Blue Box geeps which I re-motored, and at the same time removed their flywheels and they run better than the Atlas. My homemade doodlebug is also a good performer, with a can motor and no flywheels, as were my twin-motored U-boats, with the flywheels removed in favour of more weight. I had a Proto USRA 0-8-0 which was a very smooth runner but pretty-well useless as far as pulling. I was going to get rid of it, but took it apart to see if there was any place to add some weight. After removing some extraneous wiring and a circuit board, I also lopped off the flywheel - I think its diameter was even smaller than that of the motor's armature - then managed to add several ounces of lead in the newly found spaces. It runs just as well as with the flywheel, but can now pull a decent-size train, too. In most cases, I doubt that the flywheel causes any harm, but from my experiences, I doubt that removing them does either." Doctor Wayne, Trains forum
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Post by Baikal on Oct 3, 2023 7:32:56 GMT -8
having flywheels will definitely improve how a motor runs, DCC or not. And the heavier the flywheel is, the better. Athearn Genesis and Bowser/Intermountain (they use the exact same motor these days) are the ones with the biggest mounted flywheel on their motors that I know of right now and in my experience they are also my best running locomotives. That is no accident. Someone with a different view, backed up with examples: "The couple of Atlas diesels I have left also have flywheels and while they're very smooth runners, I have a couple of Blue Box geeps which I re-motored, and at the same time removed their flywheels and they run better than the Atlas. My homemade doodlebug is also a good performer, with a can motor and no flywheels, as were my twin-motored U-boats, with the flywheels removed in favour of more weight. I had a Proto USRA 0-8-0 which was a very smooth runner but pretty-well useless as far as pulling. I was going to get rid of it, but took it apart to see if there was any place to add some weight. After removing some extraneous wiring and a circuit board, I also lopped off the flywheel - I think its diameter was even smaller than that of the motor's armature - then managed to add several ounces of lead in the newly found spaces. It runs just as well as with the flywheel, but can now pull a decent-size train, too. In most cases, I doubt that the flywheel causes any harm, but from my experiences, I doubt that removing them does either." Doctor Wayne, Trains forum
A nice anecdote.
It's easy to find examples online of people who say flywheels improve performance of (their particular) DCC loco. And vv. So it depends...
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 3, 2023 8:32:36 GMT -8
I thought so, too. What with the specific examples and all. I look forward to reading those anecdotes, also. I guess it would be something like: "I installed DCC into my old flywheel-less locomotive and it didn't run all that well. But then I added the flywheels and voila!" Ed
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Post by Baikal on Oct 3, 2023 8:53:49 GMT -8
I thought so, too. What with the specific examples and all. I look forward to reading those anecdotes, also. I guess it would be something like: "I installed DCC into my old flywheel-less locomotive and it didn't run all that well. But then I added the flywheels and voila!" Ed
No need to guess. A 10 second search:
Rapido UK sez "Flywheels add angular momentum to the motor, which adds inertia to the loco and helps over momentary disruptions in track power, and they do this on both DC and DCC tracks. Even a small one can multiply the momentum of the motor by several times, particularly with the coreless motors we use..."
e t c . . .
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 3, 2023 13:26:30 GMT -8
Which certainly argues for having a keep-alive. As Rapido has put into their 44 Tonner.
An actual experiment was conducted by one of us model railroaders where he built two matching models, one with a flywheel and one with keep-alive. Then he shared the results. The keep-alive was superior because it worked at very slow speeds. A flywheel doesn't do much in that case, because it isn't turning fast enough. And that's when the effect is most needed.
When I want momentum multiplied, I change CV3 and CV4. For example, my typical values for those are 120 for Loksound and 80 for Tsunami. I "fondly" remember bonking some reefers with my momentumized Geep. Happilly, they were my reefers, and damage was minimal. You know: just like the real thing when you're not paying attention to multiple tons of mass in motion.
Ed
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Post by prr 4467 on Oct 7, 2023 14:55:20 GMT -8
I'm fine with adjusting CV 3 and 4 for momentum but can't do that on a dc-only model.
I just received my 3rd RS-11 from this run today (the 2nd ordered unit is not here yet). This one has dcc and sound and is virtually cosmetically perfect in every way possible. 4 stanchions have a very slight curve in them, but in terms of being in line, the handrails look pretty darn good, as in better than any Genesis diesel I've owned recently and as good as or even better than some of the Bowser, ScaleTrains or BLI (too thick stanchions on BLI) handrails.
Curiously, the engine with sound and dcc does seem to start and stop more smoothly than the plain dc unit right out of the box, with no adjustments to CV 3 or 4 yet. It seems they really designed the model for dcc operation, and only offer dc for those of us infidels who are not true dcc believers. Their instructions, which most people do not read, are no holds barred in insulting the plain dc crowd multiple times--but honestly maybe IF some of their previous engines hadn't had such garbage motors and decoders in them, I wouldn't be ordering plain dc units now, which is specifically because I do not trust Rapido. So, if I'm a plain dc infidel, it is partly Rapido's fault.
The new RS-11's are indeed way way better than the previous version, even in their painting (most schemes are dark colors unlike D&H, sorry D&H fans).
These might be the best HO Alco models I have from anybody, if I am being honest.
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Post by packer on Oct 7, 2023 15:22:27 GMT -8
I ran mine today.
Quick Review: -The sounds is really, really quiet out of the box. Maybe it's trying to hunt wabbits? -Runs nice and smooth, could use some momentum and was a lil fast for my liking. -The beacon is barely orange or amber. I have some transparent paint, so that's barely a 5-minute job. -Pulling power may not be great. I could only get 4 of my 6 walther's heavyweights that I used as my test train up my club's helix. I should try with the walther's log cars I have as it's more appropriate.
Most of the issues I think can be resolved with just programming and a dab of paint. I may try a SSS speaker at a later date and see if I can add some weight.
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Post by prr 4467 on Oct 7, 2023 18:40:22 GMT -8
I agree the sound is too soft, and it is maxed out according to the CV settings, if I read the instructions correctly.
The Bowser Alcos, just about all of them including even the first production run C-636 are indeed louder than the Rapido RS-11. On the bright side I did not notice any distortion in the sound, so I don't know that I can complain about it that much. I thought the bell and horn both sound pretty good.
I did a pull test on my layout tonight with mostly free rolling Bowser hopper cars, and my new RS-11 pulled 30 cars without trouble on my not-quite-level track, so I was pretty happy considering it is a 4-axle unit. I have Atlas units that won't do that, so I have to say the pulling power is at least ok.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 7, 2023 19:44:24 GMT -8
CV63, on my RS-11's, was delivered at 192. I decided to leave it at that level, as it suited me.
My impression is that CV63 can go up to 255. Haven't tried it, though.
Commonly, I reset CV63 on Loksound to around 100, or so.
For the one U25B I decided to keep, I thought the sound way too loud, as delivered, and turned it down to 40 from the as delivered 135.
THAT one was way too loud. For me.
Ed
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Post by prr 4467 on Oct 7, 2023 21:46:16 GMT -8
The weird thing is the instructions say the maximum range for CV63 is 0 to 192, with the default setting at 192, so if that is correct, then I can't turn it up any higher than it already is. The sound is ok for me, but I would have just preferred louder or the capability to go louder.
Maybe due to past complaints they chose a maximum setting that keeps the sound well equalized? idk.
I have other Loksound equipped locos, with maximum settings all over the place--some at only 64.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 8, 2023 5:12:30 GMT -8
I just checked the Loksound 5 manual, and the max value for CV63 is indeed 192. Lots of CV's go to 255, but not all.
Tsunami 2 does have a max value of 255 for CV128, however.
Ed
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Post by prr 4467 on Oct 8, 2023 5:31:14 GMT -8
oops. Missed it last night "the one U25B I decided to keep"?
What was it exactly that made you not keep the others? and how many were there?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 8, 2023 6:59:11 GMT -8
oops. Missed it last night "the one U25B I decided to keep"? What was it exactly that made you not keep the others? and how many were there? The one I kept is a UP one. I also ordered a GN one, but on inspection, I decided the orange was WAY wrong. My intention was to run it with other GN diesels I have. I wanted to recreate a consist I saw in about 1965. There was "one of everything": GP30, GP35, U25B, GP20 and a GP9. I don't plan on weathering them, at least the first 3, 'cause they'd be almost new. With that option out, the colors have to at least be pretty close. So I passed on it. I do have a P2K U28B that I'll use instead. At least, that's the plan. Ed
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Post by prr 4467 on Oct 8, 2023 8:37:07 GMT -8
Thank you for explaining. It really helps me out. I was considering a GN U25B just because it looks so neat, but might get a Santa Fe one. Think I did read above about your loco consist but just forgot.
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Post by prr 4467 on Oct 9, 2023 19:01:28 GMT -8
One thing I would like to clarify: With many locos I end up thinking the plain dc versions run better than the dcc version. This Rapido RS-11 is not one of those engines. As my dcc/sound unit now has a little running time on it, it runs significantly better than the plain dc version. Since another unit I ordered has apparently not shipped yet, I contacted the seller to see if I can upgrade my other order to a dcc/sound unit on that road number as well. This also is with absolutely no alterations to CV settings other than changing the bell sound. If I was to play with acceleration/deceleration I could get it starting/stopping even smoother than it does, but out of the box in dcc, I don't have to adjust those settings at all, which I think is remarkably good.
And I'm actually considered to be "not a Rapido fanboy".
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Oct 10, 2023 23:19:56 GMT -8
simple, they just do not care. I got some 3800 hoppers from the most recent run and they are light as a feather.... even though the ones from the previous runs were perfectly weighted. Goes back to my point about managing to mess up a good thing. Slight derail from the RS11 topic, sorry. More than a slight derail. Please don't do this.
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Post by prr 4467 on Oct 11, 2023 5:45:54 GMT -8
I operated the X72 boxcars weighted as I received them, in 50 car trains, and they did ok (stayed on the track). I elected not to keep them due to frustrations that I experienced with some other Rapido products as I had purged my roster of all Rapido stuff.
However, the RS-11's look like the real deal this time. They are running cool to the touch and not getting hot even with the sound and all the lights on. I have other guys' locos that can and do (often) run a bit warm, and unfortunately with these products being made in China, I'm having far too many motor and decoder failures during 2023 than ever before, worse than I experienced with BLI Paragon 3 stuff. Thankfully the one other manufacturer (ST) is standing behind their product and continues to replace motors and decoders when they fail. I'm down to only one loco that is currently out for a new motor and/or decoder.
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