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Post by riogrande on Mar 11, 2015 8:35:07 GMT -8
Hullo Jim, yes I am in the UK though not from here originally, but it has become home. The height problem in the RPP/Athearn long hood I am not sure is a problem or not, but if it's getting close to a foot too low, that does start to sound like it might be noticeable, to me anyway. The Kato sounds like the best option. Cheers, Ben Ben, well from what I was finding out on my last trip over, model railroading is much more popular per capita in the UK than in the US. I was shocked at how many publications (magazines) there were on the wall in a small city up north - I counted 37 different train publications - here you'd be lucky to see 6 or 7 in a well stocked wall of magazines. I also was interested that US modeling is extremely popular there too. Anyway, yes, KATO is the bottom line for GP35's. There are some new issue GP35's discount price of 99 USD (modeltrainstuff.com) and like some noted, if you check the auction sites or train shows, you can find some good deals on them. The drives are solid smooth runners. If you come across an Athearn RTR GP35 for cheap, might be worth testing or taking a look at and see what you think. |
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Post by ddatrainman on Mar 11, 2015 10:24:09 GMT -8
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Post by riogrande on Mar 11, 2015 10:51:20 GMT -8
Yep, those were the ones I was referring to available for 99 USD in my previous post. However, if you you aren't into NYC and can strip and repaint, I'd look for a deal on the auction site or a train show.
Of course for a new KATO GP35 vs. new RTR Athearn GP35 - dollar for dollar - it's no contest road name aside.
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Post by nightmare0331 on Mar 11, 2015 12:50:48 GMT -8
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Post by dtinut on Mar 11, 2015 15:57:12 GMT -8
[quote author=" dtinut" source="/post/37044/thread" timestamp="1398822917" Here is a RPP with lots of other parts sitting on a P2K GP30drive  Here is the RPP model next to the Bachmann I did a lot of work on.  Brian
Works for me!
[/p]
Which of the two in this picture is the RRP and which is the Bachmann? Am I right in that the painted unit is the RPP/Athearn?
Yes - the painted unit is a heavily Cannonized RPP shell on a P2K GP30 drive.
The primer unit probably has as much - maybe more done to fix it up then the RPP shell.
Kato shell is better than either of these at it's base level. Add a few Cannon parts, and its way better.
Does anyone do thinner handrails for the Kato unit?
Smokey Valley or PIA
I've been burrowing into the debates about the height of Ph 1s being less than Ph2 but there doesn't seem to be final agreement on that, and it is about overall height, rather than long hood height specifically.
The phII has a straight frame/different sill, and has the later fuel tank profile (like a GP38)
Does it sit higher? Hmm, good question... Not any higher than a GP38., not any loewe than phI GP35
Regards,
Brian
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scaro
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Post by scaro on Mar 12, 2015 0:51:33 GMT -8
Thanks Brian.
I raised the issue on the ACL-SAL-SCL modeller Yahoo forum about long hood height and someone measured it, and according to him, the Athearn is only 0.54mm too low, which sounds perplexing. That's hardly a foot too low.
Maybe Athearn fixed the RPP shell?
Jim, yes model railways are very popular here in the UK, and there are a lot more exhibitions, most of which are readily accessible on the rail network, which is rather good; guess the level of interest is no surprise since this country invented the train.
US modelling is popular but I've observed that it's taken a hit in recent years. In part, it's the increased cost, limited runs, etc but there are many comments on the difficulty in finding prototype information, which has meant that other prototypes, for example, South American and African outline, etc and even my own country of Australia, have made inroads instead. It's been very surprising to see a number of Australian layouts surface on the exhibition scene.
Cheers, Ben
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Post by riogrande on Mar 12, 2015 4:02:32 GMT -8
Yes, I remember reading about the Rocket as a kid, but I didn't remember where it was invented until more recently when my wife and I read reading about it again. That said, my guess is trains are so popular in the UK because more of the people ride them more frequently. The US is very spread out with a large area of land, so only the high density population area's have the more used passenger rail service - most of the rest of the country relies on automobiles or airplanes for transportation due to the shear distances so rail exposure is much less for the average American, I would guess. You mentioned being from Australia - it seems more similar to the US in terms of being a large country, very spread out too. As far as prototype information for US Railroads - that can be a challenge as there were so many different companies, especially as you go back into the 1960's and earlier. That said, there are a lot of historical societies and railfans of many of those "fallen flags" so there is information out there if people can search in the right places. There has been a lot of nice color books published in the past 25 years too, which are a tremendous resource for modelers. Heck, I have a nice library now with 3 Diesel books, and 7 or 8 large format color books covering the D&RGW from the 60's through the early 1990's. Similar books have been published for many other popular American RR. I am a member of the Rio Grande Yahoo Groups and the Southern Pacific Yahoo Groups list, and there are actually a number of Aussie's who are participants there. A moderator on the SP list here is an Aussie too: www.southernpacificmodelerssociety.org/index.php?sid=0a3984f180b14b2164fe7623198f1084Back on topic: Athearn has done modifications on the RPP shells it has integrated into it's RTR line, although some more than others. Hopefully you can get to the bottom of the question of height and dimensions. But for the chassis, you should see if you can find a KATO GP35 just to experience the running qualities!  Cheers |
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Post by Spikre on Mar 14, 2015 10:00:44 GMT -8
 You guys are a Bad Influance !! looked at the NYC GP35 on that link,and couldn't resist that Price !! this will be the 1st loco here in 3 or 4 years,so will see how it survives shipping. would have liked the NYC Dynamic Brake Worlds Fair GP35,maybe later ? now to get the Stewart NYC U25B in shape to run with this GP35. Its Expensive hanging with the Crowd here !! now to go order some books. Spikre 
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Post by WP 257 on Mar 14, 2015 19:36:31 GMT -8
Spikre--
I can understand...the NYC unit looks really really good! Saw some other new Katos in person today, too! Let's just say the painting is much better than in the past, and I think you made a good choice!
I ordered a single Tangent UP open hopper from MBK a few days ago...it's been stuck at the Baltimore Post Office for 3 whole days now. Tracking number says it's in transit...bull, I think they lost it.
Here's hoping your GP35 arrives safely, timely, and fully intact (I can find other Tangent open hoppers so I'm not too upset)!
John
PS. You could ask Bowser if the new U25B handrails will be compatible with the old handrail holes, though I'm a little afraid that answer might be disconcerting. However, one never knows unless you ask.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 15, 2015 7:37:40 GMT -8
Back on topic: Athearn has done modifications on the RPP shells it has integrated into it's RTR line, although some more than others. Hopefully you can get to the bottom of the question of height and dimensions. Measuring from the model's main deck up to the top of the rear hood: Athearn current GP35: 1.26" Athearn Genesis GP38-2: 1.29" The .03 inch difference is approximately 1.32". It is also approximately a scale 2 1/2". .54mm, mentioned above, is about .02", which is pretty close to my measure .03". I'm a'thinkin a (scale) foot would be a bit of an exaggeration. Ed |
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Post by JohnJ on Mar 15, 2015 10:47:34 GMT -8
Here is a Kato GP35 coupled back-to-back with an Athearn RTR GP35 - the Kato is the one on the left:  |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 15, 2015 11:23:52 GMT -8
OK, then. We'll expand on the matter:
Measuring from the main deck up to the top of the rear hood:
Athearn current GP35: 1.26"
Kato GP35: 1.28"
Athearn Gesisis GP38-2: 1.29"
Kalmbach plan book GP35: 1.29"
Kalmbach plan book GP38-2: 1.29"
Those are the numbers I got. If you don't like them, go out and measure your own. I am amazed how people TALK about dimensions, but never MEASURE them. It happened way back on P2K U boats, recently on the C-636 topic, and now here.
If you don't have one of the models and/or the book, you're off the hook on this, of course.
Ed
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Post by JohnJ on Mar 15, 2015 11:46:13 GMT -8
Not debating your figures at all, just wanted to provide a picture. If anything, the Kato looks a bit shorter overall than the Athearn. And, at least out of the box, I think the Athearn is a better looking model.
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Post by atsfan on Mar 15, 2015 12:28:40 GMT -8
OK, then. We'll expand on the matter: Measuring from the main deck up to the top of the rear hood: Athearn current GP35: 1.26" Kato GP35: 1.28" Athearn Gesisis GP38-2: 1.29" Kalmbach plan book GP35: 1.29" Kalmbach plan book GP38-2: 1.29" Those are the numbers I got. If you don't like them, go out and measure your own. I am amazed how people TALK about dimensions, but never MEASURE them. It happened way back on P2K U boats, recently on the C-636 topic, and now here. If you don't have one of the models and/or the book, you're off the hook on this, of course. Ed True, but, sometime things appear to the human eye differently or the frame is different or trucks etc. |
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Post by grahamline on Mar 15, 2015 15:12:35 GMT -8
How about this, from Union Pacific's c1972 Diesel Diagram book?
Height to top of cab: 14' 4 1/2"
Height from rail head to walkway deck surface: 60 1/4"
Extreme height (rail head to top of horn cluster): 15' 11 1/2"
Rail head to top of exhaust stack: 15' 3"
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 15, 2015 15:51:10 GMT -8
How about this, from Union Pacific's c1972 Diesel Diagram book? Height to top of cab: 14' 4 1/2" Height from rail head to walkway deck surface: 60 1/4" Extreme height (rail head to top of horn cluster): 15' 11 1/2" Rail head to top of exhaust stack: 15' 3" Interesting. Running the numbers, I come up with, in HO, the cab roof is 1.29" above the deck--curiously coincidental with my earlier numbers. I s'pose there could be some discussion about the difference between cab roof height versus hood height. Ed |
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Post by Spikre on Mar 15, 2015 16:32:36 GMT -8
?? both locos shown above are low on their trucks,a nice touch. but the Kato walkway looks slightly lower than the RTR. how do these GP35s match up to an Atlas GP40 ? or a Proto GP30 ? Reading did have some GP40-2s,so they can be compared also. Spikre  |
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Post by lvrr325 on Mar 16, 2015 5:02:38 GMT -8
List on the new Katos is $145/$135, the undec is cheaper. Lots on eBay in the $90-$99 range last I looked.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Mar 18, 2015 6:09:15 GMT -8
The Klambake book is littered with errors. Steps and pilot thickness on the old RPP shell and the huge hinges on the door make this one a no brainier for me.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 18, 2015 8:28:04 GMT -8
The Klambake book is littered with errors. Oh. What are those errors? Ed |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Mar 18, 2015 10:23:48 GMT -8
The SD45 and the GP38-2, for starters. A good example is the Walthers GP38-2 (mostly in N-scale) as they followed the drawings almost exactly, PAF door is completely missing, other dimensions are incorrect and the P2k one fell victim to it as well. I'll have to dig the book up, but it's very similar to the second diesel spotters guide which states, for instance, that the GP60 has the same truck center spacing as the GP38/40/50; it doesn't. The G12 dimensions are incorrect, the cab is about a foot off in placement.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 18, 2015 10:37:20 GMT -8
Very, very interesting.
I look forward to more info. It'd certainly be neat to have a corrections sheet for this book.
Ed
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Post by riogrande on Mar 18, 2015 10:56:21 GMT -8
The SD45 and the GP38-2, for starters. A good example is the Walthers GP38-2 (mostly in N-scale) as they followed the drawings almost exactly, PAF door is completely missing, other dimensions are incorrect and the P2k one fell victim to it as well. I'll have to dig the book up, but it's very similar to the second diesel spotters guide which states, for instance, that the GP60 has the same truck center spacing as the GP38/40/50; it doesn't. The G12 dimensions are incorrect, the cab is about a foot off in placement. Sounds like the all too common replcation error. Whats the old saying, if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself? Thats seems to be why Jason Shron's Rapido diesels are so good, he goes out and measures everything himself, and doesn't rely on unverified measurements from some second or third hand source! How many times have I heard of a model with errors because they just copied someone ellses model that had errors! Same deal! |
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Post by grahamline on Mar 18, 2015 13:50:57 GMT -8
"Interesting. Running the numbers, I come up with, in HO, the cab roof is 1.29" above the deck--curiously coincidental with my earlier numbers. I s'pose there could be some discussion about the difference between cab roof height versus hood height."
If I remember correctly, the different in height between the top of the cab and the top of the hood is negligible on the GP35 and following locomotives, on the order of fractions of an inch. Not the case with the 24s and 30s and the earlier engines with arched cab roofs. Haven't had a reason to study the later high-noses.
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Post by theengineshed on Mar 18, 2015 15:54:10 GMT -8
The SD45 and the GP38-2, for starters. A good example is the Walthers GP38-2 (mostly in N-scale) as they followed the drawings almost exactly, PAF door is completely missing, other dimensions are incorrect and the P2k one fell victim to it as well. I'll have to dig the book up, but it's very similar to the second diesel spotters guide which states, for instance, that the GP60 has the same truck center spacing as the GP38/40/50; it doesn't. The G12 dimensions are incorrect, the cab is about a foot off in placement. The biggest howler is the GP30 drawing, radiator fans spaced too far apart... |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 18, 2015 16:21:48 GMT -8
I'll add that to my list of errors in the book.
Of course, we should never forget about AHM basing their C424 on a drawing in RMC--what we call "the famous emd fan on an Alco where there is none at all anyway" episode.
Ed
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Post by eh49 on Mar 18, 2015 16:37:35 GMT -8
Ok, I must have missed something. What " Klambake" book are we talking about here? I know those C424 drawings that AHM used for their model was in Carstens "Loco 1-the Diesel"
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Mar 18, 2015 16:43:05 GMT -8
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Post by dtinut on Mar 18, 2015 21:23:05 GMT -8
?? how do these GP35s match up to a Proto GP30 ? Spikre I just placed my Athearn GP35 (C&O) next to a P2K GP30 (C&O) looking carefully and using straight edge, the walkway of the Athearn is a tennie-wennie bit higher. Looking at the roof tops where the fans are - same height. I'd say they compare/partner really well to each other... which is how I run this pair. I also quickly checked a Kato GP35 same way, with about the exact same results when compared to the P2K GP30. Regards, Brian |
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Post by carrman on Mar 19, 2015 6:07:18 GMT -8
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