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Post by lvrr325 on Nov 18, 2014 20:04:21 GMT -8
That's just it, the Stewart is a flat kit, the top and sides are separate parts, so changing the sides isn't a big deal. But, it's a flat kit, that's kind of old school as they go. And I don't know how accurate it is to start with.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Nov 19, 2014 10:01:18 GMT -8
I hope that Bowser does not use any part of the old Stewart RS-3 tooling. It's awful.
The hood top curves are w-a-a-a-a-y off, being far too sharp a curve, and the ends are wrong, too, because of that. The handrails were sewer pipes and made of fragile plastic. The chassis was so thin I could bend it with my bare hands. And the drive was pure Athearn BB. I'm not sure of the cab dimensions, hood sides, or of the sideframes...they might be okay. But the rest? Ugh.
This was easily the worst RS-3 on the market of the Atlas/MDC/Stewart versions. It didn't run worth a darn, and looked bad doing it. The Atlas had problems with the coupler mounts and had dimensional problems, but at least it ran great. The MDC/Roundhouse looked better with wire handrails, more accurate dimensions and the old drive was noisy, but at least it could pull. The Stewart had dimensional problems, it didn't run well, and it didn't pull much of anything.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Nov 19, 2014 20:30:53 GMT -8
I hope that Bowser does not use any part of the old Stewart RS-3 tooling. It's awful. The hood top curves are w-a-a-a-a-y off, being far too sharp a curve, and the ends are wrong, too, because of that. The handrails were sewer pipes and made of fragile plastic. The chassis was so thin I could bend it with my bare hands. And the drive was pure Athearn BB. I'm not sure of the cab dimensions, hood sides, or of the sideframes...they might be okay. But the rest? Ugh. This was easily the worst RS-3 on the market of the Atlas/MDC/Stewart versions. It didn't run worth a darn, and looked bad doing it. The Atlas had problems with the coupler mounts and had dimensional problems, but at least it ran great. The MDC/Roundhouse looked better with wire handrails, more accurate dimensions and the old drive was noisy, but at least it could pull. The Stewart had dimensional problems, it didn't run well, and it didn't pull much of anything. Sounds like an opportunity for someone with one of each (Atlas, MDC, Athearn retooled, Stewart) to take a side by side pix. Maybe throw in the Proto1000 & Kato RS2's. Instead of picking apart models after tooling, we could compare what's out there and identify what is wrong and also what is right with existing models. Might save some grief and produce a better model... |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Nov 19, 2014 20:58:06 GMT -8
I've got most of the RS's: old Stewart, old Atlas, Atlas Classic, old MDC, and a new Athearn. Plus a P1K and a Kato RS-2. I even have a plastic Hobbytown RS-3. What I don't have is the new Atlas RS-3 (which should be just like the old one with a better stack), the metal Hobbytown RS-3 (which should be just like the plastic one), and the other Phase RS-3's from Stewart (which, other than the various vents, should be just like the Phase Ib I have).
I could do this. Hmm... Now where did I pack away my RS's?
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Post by thebessemerkid on Nov 19, 2014 21:08:26 GMT -8
I'd imagine if we all pitched in and took shots from the same angles, someone with Photoshop expertise could virtually match them up. Add in some prototype photos as a reference. Someone did this with Alco Century cab profiles, I think. What would be required for comprehensive pictures? Engineer & Fireman's side, each end, maybe a top down view. Truck/axle spacing. Photographed on a cutting mat with a grid reference for sizing maybe? Anything missing? Cutting mat ( for anyone who has not used one - available at craft stores, Michaels, JoAnn etc)  Maybe a good way to start a "universal locomotive reference" set of photos? Might help resolving size/accuracy questions. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 19, 2014 21:35:03 GMT -8
If you pursue this, be sure to shoot with as much "telephotoness" as you can. Close up and wide angleness is a REAL problem.
Ed
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Post by thebessemerkid on Nov 19, 2014 22:02:07 GMT -8
A good point. Perspective distortion is real. Absent the likelihood of everyone having telecentric lenses, would suggest standardizing on a common focal length, or at least noting it with pix or EXIF files. The height debate way back in the early pages of this thread also brings to mind these gadgets: www.ebay.com/itm/151481185783 $16 and might make a nifty coupler height (along with carbody height) gage |
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Post by thebessemerkid on Nov 19, 2014 22:05:47 GMT -8
Another (they are listed as router gages usually)  |
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Post by ambluco on Nov 20, 2014 3:20:07 GMT -8
Picking apart the various RS-3 models was done over 10 years ago, on the internet. Everything is out there via Google and the Usenet groups. From hoods to wrong cab side windows to wrong curves. All exceedingly old news that I'm sure every manufacturer already knows. That's probably why Bowser is starting from scratch with new drawings. I hope that Bowser does not use any part of the old Stewart RS-3 tooling. It's awful. The hood top curves are w-a-a-a-a-y off, being far too sharp a curve, and the ends are wrong, too, because of that. The handrails were sewer pipes and made of fragile plastic. The chassis was so thin I could bend it with my bare hands. And the drive was pure Athearn BB. I'm not sure of the cab dimensions, hood sides, or of the sideframes...they might be okay. But the rest? Ugh. This was easily the worst RS-3 on the market of the Atlas/MDC/Stewart versions. It didn't run worth a darn, and looked bad doing it. The Atlas had problems with the coupler mounts and had dimensional problems, but at least it ran great. The MDC/Roundhouse looked better with wire handrails, more accurate dimensions and the old drive was noisy, but at least it could pull. The Stewart had dimensional problems, it didn't run well, and it didn't pull much of anything. Sounds like an opportunity for someone with one of each (Atlas, MDC, Athearn retooled, Stewart) to take a side by side pix. Maybe throw in the Proto1000 & Kato RS2's. Instead of picking apart models after tooling, we could compare what's out there and identify what is wrong and also what is right with existing models. Might save some grief and produce a better model... |
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Post by Spikre on Nov 20, 2014 14:52:04 GMT -8
 Paul, You forgot the AHM/YUGO RS-2 !! Spikre 
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Post by thebessemerkid on Nov 20, 2014 15:47:13 GMT -8
 Nice!!! |
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Post by kcjones on Nov 20, 2014 16:35:45 GMT -8
Looks fine to me. Shouldn't have any problems getting your hands around that brake wheel. That screw might be a problem though. I'd keep tripping on the damn thing!!!
JL
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Nov 20, 2014 16:39:13 GMT -8
Nice!!! I have one of those stashed away somewhere! From when I was about 15 years old. Wrong lettering font and color, thin striping white instead of yellow, wide stripe brown instead of maroon, wrong headlight, one-truck drive, and a jackrabbit starting voltage of about 9 volts and top speed of maybe 200 mph, to name the more prominent faults. How far we have come! I should haul it out and see if it still "runs." |
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Post by Spikre on Nov 20, 2014 18:35:01 GMT -8
 Bessemer, that is the Phase-1 AHM-Yugo RS-2. the Phase-2 AHM-Yugo had: a 3 pole Can Motor, but no flywheels. 8 Wheel Drive. better, but still slightly off details. a finer deck casting with integral handrails. and a much better EL Paint job with Yellow replacing the white for stripes. still had the truck mounted couplers, and liked to run fast. Spikre 
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Post by thebessemerkid on Nov 20, 2014 19:07:39 GMT -8
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Post by Spikre on Nov 20, 2014 19:18:45 GMT -8
 Bessemer, YEP !! now picture being a dedicated EL fan waiting for the Athearn EL GP35 and EL PA-1 that was taking forever to show up. in a moment of Weakness that RS-2 is just sitting there beckoning You with, "Go Ahead EL guy, make my day, take me home" even a few years later after missing the Bev-Bel Athearn EL GP7 shell a set of AHM EL GP18s is spotted at a price lower than a powered single unit. once again in a moment of weakness $7.99 is shelled out and the EL GP18s comes home with the other goodies and gems found that trip. the 1970s,a Magic Time !! Spikre sorry about the name slip up !! too bad AHM stuff didn't Match the Art Work ! 
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Post by thebessemerkid on Nov 20, 2014 19:20:03 GMT -8
^^^ from Tony Cooks site. Can't edit on these smartphones
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Post by thebessemerkid on Nov 20, 2014 19:27:04 GMT -8
HO Specialists in Philadelphia, Sal Marino Co in Staten Island, Blums in Cleveland, waited every month for RMC & MR, and when they arrived would read them over and over and over until the covers fell off. The AHM ads were something else, with the funeral sales of old parts and locos. Brass was of course a pipedream, as were the SSLtd and FSM kits. Pure bliss. Wonder if kids nowadays will ever experience such youthful innocence?
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Post by thebessemerkid on Nov 20, 2014 19:46:12 GMT -8
*thread hijack in process*  |
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Post by Spikre on Nov 20, 2014 20:01:06 GMT -8
 Bessemer, wonder at that late date if the powered K-Ms were factory reconditioned units ? those prices were amazing ! the "Funeral Sale " ads with the Camelback in the Coffin were some sort of Model RRing high point !! Madison Avenue couldn't touch them. Spikre
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Post by lvrr325 on Nov 20, 2014 21:25:49 GMT -8
I hope that Bowser does not use any part of the old Stewart RS-3 tooling. It's awful. The hood top curves are w-a-a-a-a-y off, being far too sharp a curve, and the ends are wrong, too, because of that. The handrails were sewer pipes and made of fragile plastic. The chassis was so thin I could bend it with my bare hands. And the drive was pure Athearn BB. I'm not sure of the cab dimensions, hood sides, or of the sideframes...they might be okay. But the rest? Ugh. This was easily the worst RS-3 on the market of the Atlas/MDC/Stewart versions. It didn't run worth a darn, and looked bad doing it. The Atlas had problems with the coupler mounts and had dimensional problems, but at least it ran great. The MDC/Roundhouse looked better with wire handrails, more accurate dimensions and the old drive was noisy, but at least it could pull. The Stewart had dimensional problems, it didn't run well, and it didn't pull much of anything. Irony: Early MDC RS3s used Athearn BB motor, gears and various parts. Later ones and the Athearn releases use Proto 2000 clones of the Athearn motor and later BB trucks. Stewart was probably on to something with the way the body was cast, but perhaps better to design the pieces so they can be changed in a die for a one piece hood. Who's model was the DW high short hood made to fit? |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Nov 21, 2014 13:28:27 GMT -8
lvrr325,
Early MDC RS-3's did not use the Athearn BB gear train. The JET motor, yes, but the gears, shafts, and trucks were completely different from anything else. They ran slow, like they had a gear reduction set from NWSL, and the trucks had weird "T"-shaped bolsters (instead of the normal Athearn plate with a hole in it).
The later MDC's used LLP2K FA-2 drives, from the motor with the V-notch flywheels for the fan belt (remember the spinning FA-2 fan?) to the exact same sideframes. They even sounded the same when they ran.
The Athearn version uses the normal Athearn RTR drive as found in just about everything else from RTR.
The old Stewart was easily the worst of the lot due to the 100% Athearn BB nature of it. It was straight up Athearn BB with no improvements, unlike all the MDC/Athearn RS-3 drives.
The best thing about the Stewart was that as a kit, he made it so that the major Phases of the body could be swapped around with ease to give you just about any RS-3 variation you wanted without hacking anything. Phase I, Phase Ia, Phase Ib, Phase II, Phase III could be done fairly simply. You could even make an RS-2 out of it, it just took more work. Where it really fell down was both in the execution of the tooling and the running qualities (I've got 4 of the silly things and they all run poorly).
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Post by Judge Doom on Nov 21, 2014 17:18:44 GMT -8
lvrr325, The Athearn version uses the normal Athearn RTR drive as found in just about everything else from RTR. Sorta...it has what are basically the Proto 2000 FA1 trucks under it, which themselves are a clone of the basic Athearn design (albeit, Athearn never made any "AAR-B" style Alco trucks matching that wheelbase). Everything in a way came in full circle: Athearn makes BB drive, Proto 2000 clones Athearn drive, P2K trucks used under MDC RS3, Athearn acquires and reissues MDC RS3 with same P2K trucks that were pseudo-copied from Athearn. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Nov 21, 2014 21:21:13 GMT -8
lvrr325, Early MDC RS-3's did not use the Athearn BB gear train. The JET motor, yes, but the gears, shafts, and trucks were completely different from anything else. They ran slow, like they had a gear reduction set from NWSL, and the trucks had weird "T"-shaped bolsters (instead of the normal Athearn plate with a hole in it). The later MDC's used LLP2K FA-2 drives, from the motor with the V-notch flywheels for the fan belt (remember the spinning FA-2 fan?) to the exact same sideframes. They even sounded the same when they ran. The Athearn version uses the normal Athearn RTR drive as found in just about everything else from RTR. The old Stewart was easily the worst of the lot due to the 100% Athearn BB nature of it. It was straight up Athearn BB with no improvements, unlike all the MDC/Athearn RS-3 drives. The best thing about the Stewart was that as a kit, he made it so that the major Phases of the body could be swapped around with ease to give you just about any RS-3 variation you wanted without hacking anything. Phase I, Phase Ia, Phase Ib, Phase II, Phase III could be done fairly simply. You could even make an RS-2 out of it, it just took more work. Where it really fell down was both in the execution of the tooling and the running qualities (I've got 4 of the silly things and they all run poorly). I've had all three of them here; I had a pair of the Athearn RTR RS3s I picked up cheap with decoders added and had to sort them out and had them apart several times. They also turned out to all have the same split gear problem that P2K diesels suffer from. The trucks have a black plastic piece added to cover the metal panel that forms the inboard truck side, where the bearings mount and the sideframe mount hole is. Athearn BB trucks are just bare metal, and the gears do not split on them. The early run MDC units seem to use Athearn gears with Athearn part numbers on the instructions, just combined differently from any actual Athearn locomotive. The truck mounting tab is similar to that used on PA's, but one for a GP38/40/50 will function as a substitute. I'm working on a simple conversion of one into a Conrail RS3m, it's apart on the bench now, if I get a chance I'll look it over again. (about all it involves is changing the fan and stacks). |
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