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Post by bigblow69 on Mar 5, 2015 16:46:48 GMT -8
For those who may have one of these, how are the handrails and light bulbs? I am waiting on MTH Dash 9s. Long wait........ Those were originally supposed to be out spring lat year. |
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Post by riogrande on Mar 5, 2015 16:53:22 GMT -8
Why would they leave so many sales. On the floor now? A rerun is over a year away. They don't do it intentionally - whats the old saying, hind sight is 20/20. My impression is companies are being tight with production except for pre-orders of course. The rub is they don't have a crystal ball and know which items are going to sell like hot cakes and which will be dogs. To me, D&RGW is a no brainer - Athearn should have made way more Genesis GP40-2's, but they didn't. They sold out everywhere very fast. I had to scramble but I got the 3 I had saved up for and picked up the 4th off fle-abay for a slighly higher price from a vendor. OTOH, I noticed some of the other road names lingering on and on. As for Kleins, unfortunately they do not even do pre-order. I've mentioned this to them and told them it was a problem for me but well, I talked to the messenger, not the head honcho. We can complain, but ultimately it's up to the vendors. Since I had saved up for my Genesis GP40-2's, I would have been happy to pre-order with them but ... Anyway, Kleins does a good enough business that they don't have to change things I guess - generally I'm very happy with them as are most - so this is one thing which is growing to be a bigger and bigger problem. As others have commented, it is what it is, and we have to adapt or walk away. It's like that with many things in life I've learned over the years. |
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Post by theengineshed on Mar 5, 2015 17:05:27 GMT -8
MTS has a business model that keeps you hitting their site. You have to be quick if the item is in demand. That said I believe they have both store and mail order stock systems, items sometimes restock themselves a couple of days later after first appearing on site and selling out. No complaints, real time stock listing, and they usually ship quick.
When I have missed out at MTS, Factory Direct Trains and Trainworld usually fill the bill, no complaints with either. Trainworld has the UP SD70M listed currently as in stock and only $10 more (w/ noisemaker) than MTS. My impression is that Trainworld has deeper stock bins than MTS...
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Post by riogrande on Mar 5, 2015 17:15:25 GMT -8
The problem is, when certain things come in stock, like the last batch of D&RGW SD40T-2's or the D&RGW GP40-2's, if you weren't hitting their site at the right time - *poof* you blinked and they're gone - just like the topic of this thread. The rest of the time you keep hitting the site and the stuff you want is sold mostly. Thats the way it's been for the last year or two, so I've relied more on other online resources to fill my needs. See, the problem is we can't just keep looking all day, we have jobs etc. When the tunnel motors came in I was working and couldn't camp MBK all day every day. When the GP40-2's came in, I was literally in the air and flying into Paris when they came in.
Anyway, yeah, you have to be resourceful to get what you want.
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Post by bikedude on Mar 5, 2015 17:21:04 GMT -8
Bikedude, I hope you got those GP30s. I saw the recent Walthers/Proto Southern GP30s at MBK just after they were listed too (4 each SKU if I recall correctly, another "is that all they got?" reaction) and nearly got a non-sound pair, but didn't... If I had been looking to flip some units and make $$$ it would have been a sure bet, but that's not my aim in this hobby. Thanks Curt. I got a couple to go with one I had cobbled together from the first run. Luckily I wasn't in the market for these locomotives. |
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Post by mlehman on Mar 5, 2015 17:48:01 GMT -8
New stuff, just released, at MSRP but with free shipping... OK then, I don't see anything here the contradicts Horizon's decision to not undercut their wholesale customers on pricing by taking discounted retail offerings off Horizon's website. Free shipping is a very minor inducement. It sure wouldn't make me feel good about paying MSRP if I needed it and didn't preorder from a reliable discount supplier. BTW, I don't believe their listing of the SD70 flares on ebay was a mistake...they simply sold out that fast. And if you think about it a little, putting a case or two of the latest run up on ebay and seeing it go poof at MSRP actually helps support those vendors who ordered store stock from it, as well as supporting both discount and MSRP pricing. |
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Post by atsfan on Mar 5, 2015 18:14:56 GMT -8
For those who may have one of these, how are the handrails and light bulbs? I am waiting on MTH Dash 9s. Long wait........ Those were originally supposed to be out spring lat year. I saw them on Cleveland Not sure what the big hold is up and good luck getting status from MTH. Easier to get updates from the moon. But they look great and I like MTH handrails. |
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Post by atsfan on Mar 5, 2015 18:16:25 GMT -8
The problem is, when certain things come in stock, like the last batch of D&RGW SD40T-2's or the D&RGW GP40-2's, if you weren't hitting their site at the right time - *poof* you blinked and they're gone - just like the topic of this thread. The rest of the time you keep hitting the site and the stuff you want is sold mostly. Thats the way it's been for the last year or two, so I've relied more on other online resources to fill my needs. See, the problem is we can't just keep looking all day, we have jobs etc. When the tunnel motors came in I was working and couldn't camp MBK all day every day. When the GP40-2's came in, I was literally in the air and flying into Paris when they came in. Anyway, yeah, you have to be resourceful to get what you want. Kliens has a crazy business model with such limited stock. Why do they discount when they order so few items they sell out in minutes? Clearly they could charge more. |
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Post by curtmc on Mar 5, 2015 18:22:53 GMT -8
Those listings that get made and then removed because the item isn't actually in stock are not uncommon, and I was thinking the same as your last comment... Just call the listings of single units that aren't really in stock (thus removed) as free advertising.
On MBK stock, I have actually been told that many times from various manufacturers they don't get the quantities they order... and that was a part of the reason they changed the reservation system. If you have 36 reservations and only get 6, that gets even a lot more messy than just selling out in minutes.
And low stock quantities at MBK are unusual... Do you think a shop that ordered an initial stock of 72 Schneider 53' container 3-packs (36 each of both done), and last month had an initial stock of 144 Intermountain UP autoracks (24 each number in one scheme and 12 each in the other), didn't try to get more than 6 each of the non-sound UP SD70Ms?
If you think hobby dealers always get all they order when reservations are made from a manufacturer or distributor, then we have news for you... It's called "short shipping" and I've been told it is quite common...
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Post by WP 257 on Mar 5, 2015 21:04:21 GMT -8
Isn't it called "churn"?
The MBK business model seems to work just fine. If they have a sellout of more items than those that linger on the website, they keep their investment capital "churning"--working for them.
No need to be greedy like some shops if you are constantly making a small profit on money that is constantly churning. If you can flip the products quickly, you end up earning a lot more profit than the shop that sits on an item for a long time to make 30% or 40%.
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Mar 5, 2015 21:58:12 GMT -8
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Post by bigb6flyer on Mar 6, 2015 4:20:44 GMT -8
Who says MBK is the end-all-be-all place for Athearn trains? If they're out, just turn the page and look somewhere else. For hard to find items, sometimes the hunt for the item is more fun than actually having it. These will probably be on the used market before too long at a discount anyhow.
It stinks the hobby has gone to the pre-order system, but if it's an item you really want, pre-order it from a reputable dealer and preferably one who doesn't charge up front or charge at all unless you want to take delivery. You can tell by the postings on this site and others if a model is worth a hoot typically. If you want an item and are committed to not pre-ordering, I understand, but prepare for possible disappointment, frustration, and threads like this one. Life's about choices and balance.
I recommend Rob and his crew at dccttrain.com personally. Personal attention, organized, reliable, good prices, no pre-order payment up front, don't have to take delivery of a pre-order I no longer want, excellent service. They are my favorite for new Athearn.
Warm regards,
Brad
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Post by riogrande on Mar 6, 2015 4:43:08 GMT -8
Who says MBK is the end-all-be-all place for Athearn trains? I don't think anyone has said that; quite the opposite due to the main issue discussed in this topic. Klein's is great in many ways, but the focus of this discussion is a major shortcoming. Yep. Been down that road frequently in the past few years! |
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Post by NS4122 on Mar 6, 2015 7:50:59 GMT -8
You don't have a clue as to what Klein's business model is. Kliens has a crazy business model with such limited stock. Why do they discount when they order so few items they sell out in minutes? Clearly they could charge more. |
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Post by middledivision on Mar 6, 2015 8:20:58 GMT -8
Not defending MBK, but if I recall they changed to this policy because their previous pre-order policy did not work well for them. Don't know why it didn't work for them, only that they pretty clearly stated at the time that a change was needed. The issue with them was people would pre order and then not buy them. Most likely because they are a faceless mail order outfit to most people, and, given train orders are shorted all the time, people would pre order from several places in order to get one item. Harder to do with a store you know the owner of etc. So Kliens orders some small amount, throws them on the website, and sells out in 11 minutes, and moves on.
[/font][/font] Exactly. Did they underestimate the demand for the flares? Yes, but the Genesis GP40-2's, at least in Conrail and NS, hung around for a while. They even blew out the last few for $99. My plan was to grab a non-sound from them and then try for a sound unit from eBay after the feeding frenzy for the new release.... At least I got one of them! |
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Post by middledivision on Mar 6, 2015 8:38:09 GMT -8
Thanks Al! Grabbed one of the few sound NS units left. |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Mar 6, 2015 8:50:34 GMT -8
Of course, for folks that are displeased with the current system of model manufacturing, they could go back to the old days of the 1980's. That's when Athearn released 4 or 5 new models that decade. They were released when they said they would be and were available in bulk anywhere in the USA. There was only one cab number, they only had a few road names, they had no separate detail parts, no window glass and a cookout in the cab for lighting, but they were available. You could probably count on getting the most popular locos approx. 20 years after the real ones first rolled out of LaGrange or Erie.
In other words, folks, it's this or nothing.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Mar 6, 2015 9:34:43 GMT -8
Of course, for folks that are displeased with the current system of model manufacturing, they could go back to the old days of the 1980's. That's when Athearn released 4 or 5 new models that decade. They were released when they said they would be and were available in bulk anywhere in the USA. There was only one cab number, they only had a few road names, they had no separate detail parts, no window glass and a cookout in the cab for lighting, but they were available. You could probably count on getting the most popular locos approx. 20 years after the real ones first rolled out of LaGrange or Erie. In other words, folks, it's this or nothing. Paul said it best. If you want to get the straight skinny from an ACTUAL manufacturer head over the Rapido Monday deadline for the FL9 thread. Bill at Rapido spells it out in plain SIMPLE English. I actually hate this catch phrase, but it what it is. |
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Post by wmrdgfan on Mar 6, 2015 9:42:42 GMT -8
Is it really THIS OR NOTHING? How long have the real SD70 flairs been on the railroads? How long have FL9s been on the real railroads? The way I see things is that Manufacturers, not just model rr manufacturers, want their profits NOW. All in the name of pleasing stock holders. I don't have the answer, but there has to be a better way. They are making a product that they want you buy, and I am the customer that wants to buy. In the end, if the customer can't buy the product, when they are comfortable doing so,and not when the manufacturer says here it is get it now or too bad,then both loose out.
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Post by curtmc on Mar 6, 2015 11:12:28 GMT -8
BULL HOCKEY!!! / HORSE FEATHERS!!! Who's talking about the 1980s?  (By the way, I can remember then... $2.98 MDC modern cars, $15 Athearn units, $1 decals...) That always seems to be the excuse/mantra for some whenever they see or hear a complaint about current issues... What about going back to the 1995-2004 period when we had all the limited production items, multiple releases per year, adequate production on most items to make them available for months if not at least weeks, many brick and mortar shops still around, many distribution points where shops could get resupplies if needed, and the hobby was growing... |
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Post by mlehman on Mar 6, 2015 11:51:25 GMT -8
SNIP That always seems to be the excuse/mantra for some whenever they see or hear a complaint about current issues... What about going back to the 1995-2004 period when we had all the limited production items, multiple releases per year, adequate production on most items to make them available for months if not at least weeks, many brick and mortar shops still around, many distribution points where shops could get resupplies if needed, and the hobby was growing... It's not an excuse. It's an objective fact. Things move more quickly in our increasingly connected world. Yet some people still want to consume as if it was the 1980s that Jim described and I think most of us can remember. And it had little to do with the growth of the hobby. It was just how it was done, plus a bunch of baby boomers hitting retirement age with disposable income. If anything, the hobby is still growing in financial terms. This stuff is selling out [mostly], so there is little incentive to mess with what works. Order it and you'll (probably) get it (from those vendors who do preorders). Sit around wait-and-seeing and you very well could end up empty handed. In that case, there'll be another run of something coming along, which means the bottom line is doing OK, even of it's a model you have no interest in. And it is a competitive market. That's why others join in in whatever manner works best. If MBK doesn't work for you, there's plenty of alternatives [I'm really glad I'm not the guy that had to call 30 people after only six units showed up out of the 36 I'd ordered, so I can see MBK's point on this.) |
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Post by calzephyr on Mar 6, 2015 12:07:09 GMT -8
SNIP That always seems to be the excuse/mantra for some whenever they see or hear a complaint about current issues... What about going back to the 1995-2004 period when we had all the limited production items, multiple releases per year, adequate production on most items to make them available for months if not at least weeks, many brick and mortar shops still around, many distribution points where shops could get resupplies if needed, and the hobby was growing... It's not an excuse. It's an objective fact. Things move more quickly in our increasingly connected world. Yet some people still want to consume as if it was the 1980s that Jim described and I think most of us can remember. And it had little to do with the growth of the hobby. It was just how it was done, plus a bunch of baby boomers hitting retirement age with disposable income. If anything, the hobby is still growing in financial terms. This stuff is selling out [mostly], so there is little incentive to mess with what works. Order it and you'll (probably) get it (from those vendors who do preorders). Sit around wait-and-seeing and you very well could end up empty handed. In that case, there'll be another run of something coming along, which means the bottom line is doing OK, even of it's a model you have no interest in. And it is a competitive market. That's why others join in in whatever manner works best. If MBK doesn't work for you, there's plenty of alternatives [I'm really glad I'm not the guy that had to call 30 people after only six units showed up out of the 36 I'd ordered, so I can see MBK's point on this.) Mike I like MBK but most of my buys are used brass so they are not in my future buys very often. I did purchase one of the Santa Fe 2-10-2 recently and got a good deal after I thought most of those were gone. Diesels seem to be a much hotter item now since so many scramble for the new releases and the latest SD70M's flair radiator units are certainly hot and wanted by many. I had four of those several years ago by Overland and they sold like hotcakes when I released them. They probably would be hard to sell for the prices I got for them and that is a good thing I sold them long before Athearn announced they would build them. As you know, the inventory usually comes in two or three waves as new items are released. I stopped reserving any models in general since most models do become available on sale in due time. Athearn probably is importing less and less but any model that I really wanted seems to be available in some form in due time. And in the 1980 era, there was always a lot of stock on the shelves in most of the many LHS that doted the USA. It is now a different market and no company wants items in the warehouse for over a month or two. I have to believe this is the reason KATO stopped making so many models after the SD90/40Mac several years ago when they seemed to be in the warehouse way too long. Larry |
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Post by bigblow69 on Mar 6, 2015 12:30:36 GMT -8
Lombard now has the CN SD70s, BNSF SD75Is and NS SD70Ms listed but no UP SD70Ms... Not even pages showing sold out. Do you think that they didn't order enough to even post any available online, or do you think they got shorted? I contacted them and they have no UP available for sale. During my pavement pounding looking for a job & railfanning I decided to stop by Jetcos Hiawatha Hobbies in Waukesha. He had tons of them and they weren't spoken for. So I opened one look it over. Looks pretty good to me( no radiator drain pipe). |
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Post by curtmc on Mar 6, 2015 12:47:53 GMT -8
BTW, in less than a day Lombard is down to just one single NS SD70M non-sound in stock...
Update... a few hours later it sold, so Lomard hobby sold out of all the non-sound NS SD70Ms in a little over a day...
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Post by atsfan on Mar 6, 2015 12:53:26 GMT -8
Of course, for folks that are displeased with the current system of model manufacturing, they could go back to the old days of the 1980's. That's when Athearn released 4 or 5 new models that decade. They were released when they said they would be and were available in bulk anywhere in the USA. There was only one cab number, they only had a few road names, they had no separate detail parts, no window glass and a cookout in the cab for lighting, but they were available. You could probably count on getting the most popular locos approx. 20 years after the real ones first rolled out of LaGrange or Erie. In other words, folks, it's this or nothing. My point exactly. And for many, it is the latter. |
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Post by atsfan on Mar 6, 2015 12:57:03 GMT -8
How about we go back 10 years when Proto made new items, Kato did also, and so did Atlas.
And with just a small effort, you could actually buy one without. A home equity loan, and a free weekend to search the continent
For a scarce as Big Foot engine because you were so horrible a human you didn't figure out how to pre order one a year ago.
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Post by bigblow69 on Mar 6, 2015 13:05:03 GMT -8
BB69, Hiwatha Hobbies online is showing out of stock when you attempt add any UP SD70M to cart... BTW, in less than a day Lombard is down to just one single NS SD70M non-sound in stock... I don't think he had them in the inventory yet. They were still unboxing. No way he sold them in two hours but I may be wrong. Called and he said they should be up for sale in a couple hours. |
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Post by bigblow69 on Mar 6, 2015 13:18:46 GMT -8
How about we go back 10 years when Proto made new items, Kato did also, and so did Atlas. And with just a small effort, you could actually buy one without. A home equity loan, and a free weekend to search the continent For a scarce as Big Foot engine because you were so horrible a human you didn't figure out how to pre order one a year ago. My friend does that sometime. Calling all over looking for something. Too funny. Luckily I'm blessed with a great hobby shops in Milwaukee. Couldn't imagine doing entire mail order or a half day drive to one. |
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Post by curtmc on Mar 6, 2015 13:19:34 GMT -8
And LOL... Yes, I've already made suggestions to Athearn (back in July) on the unit numbers for the UP flared SD70M rerun (if ever done)...
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Post by bigblow69 on Mar 6, 2015 13:23:18 GMT -8
BB69, the pages are there, the unit shows "in stock" on the pages, but then "out of stock" when trying to add to cart... And LOL... Yes, I've already made suggestions to Athearn (back in July) on the unit numbers for the UP flared SD70M rerun (if ever done)... Curt Be patient he still working on added them to inventory. Hopefully Athearn will announce next month a second run of the UP with the FIRE cabs/PTC antenna arangements. should see them winter 2016. |
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