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Post by curtmc on Mar 4, 2015 19:48:22 GMT -8
That's the approximate answer to how long it took MBK to sell out of ~24 Genesis non-sound UP flared SD70Ms this afternoon...
At 4:15 PM they had not been added to online site.
At 4:29 on a whim I rechecked when I closed one browser window and the MBK site was still open on the one below. A reload and I noticed they were finally listed, ~24 UP non-sound, ~16 UP with DCC/sound, and a similar number of NS SD70Ms. Also added were BNSF SD75Is, CN SD70s, and other new Athearn releases - all in equal stock quantities of 4, 6, 12, 24, or 36 so it was evident they had just been listed. I rushed to add a few non-sound flared SD70Ms to cart (plus a few new Athearn boxcars and containers too), checked out, and finished my order at 4:34.
By 4:35 two of the four UP numbers in the sound units were sold out.
By 4:40 all the non-sound UP numbers, all but 2 total of the UP sound equipped ones (as well as one number in each NS sound and non-sound) was sold out.
One of the sound equipped UP SD70M units actually made it to about 5:20 before that last one sold.
I know MBK wishes tonight that they could place a restock order, I know MBK is a great shop and has great customer service, and I know they probably have a lot of disappointed potential customers that just were doing something else in that 15-30 minutes... But is this how it should be? With some shops not taking reservations due to past short shipments, is the hobby shifting to luck and being at the right place at the right time to actually get a unit you want?
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Post by middledivision on Mar 4, 2015 20:00:05 GMT -8
Ordered my non-sound NS unit at 4:56 pm.
There were three left in that number after I got mine.
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Post by Spikre on Mar 4, 2015 20:02:09 GMT -8
 You can get anything You want at Alice's Restaurant,cepting Alice !! better to hear that music than TwiLite Zone Music. this is what the Hobby is Devolving into,a mad scramble to get models sight unseen,now did Monster Al get the units He wanted ? looks like the Zombie Junkies are winning here. Spikre 
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Post by WP 257 on Mar 4, 2015 20:30:47 GMT -8
Gotta ask: Does MBK still have the policy where it is recommended that you "indicate your interest" in buying engine XYZ that is coming, but do not actually place a formal reservation or pre-order or whatever you want to call it?
Because if not enough customers "indicated their interest" in these models then there's nothing they can do.
Typically, they place a quick re-order, and for the sake of any customers who might have missed out, I hope they are able to do that with these models.
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Post by curtmc on Mar 4, 2015 20:41:58 GMT -8
Yes, MBK still has that, but with the quick sellouts some have become frustrated with the process and I guess don't do it anymore... What happens to the customer who takes the time to fill that out, then by the time he gets the email saying the item is in stock goes to the page to find the item already sold out? (Has happened to friends of mine) Does he fill out another "interest form" next time. or start watching the site like a hawk?
By the way, MBK recently had the MTH Gevo Hybrid Demo in quantity of 60+, so to see the Genesis flared SD70M in quantities of 4 (sound) and 6 (non-sound) per SKU surprised me. Some of the Athearn container 3-packs started with quantities of 36 each SKU (and some of those are now below 12).
On the flared SD70M units Athearn page has been showing "Out of Stock" for every one for several days stunting the reorder possibility, so unless they have a separate shipment that hasn't arrived yet, or some not listed yet... well...
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Post by bigblow69 on Mar 4, 2015 20:52:04 GMT -8
Lombard Hobby should be getting some within the next few days.
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Post by scl1234 on Mar 5, 2015 5:20:18 GMT -8
But is this how it should be? With some shops not taking reservations due to past short shipments, is the hobby shifting to luck and being at the right place at the right time to actually get a unit you want? Hoarders is my only explanation for the half-hour sell-out. I'd place heavy bets that the number of buyers for the 40 UP units was fewer than 20. Off to that auction site a few of them will go...after supplies elsewhere (below full retail) are exhausted. Maybe not how it should be, rather the way it is. |
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Post by alcoc430 on Mar 5, 2015 6:28:17 GMT -8
Yes, MBK still has that, but with the quick sellouts some have become frustrated with the process and I guess don't do it anymore... What happens to the customer who takes the time to fill that out, then by the time he gets the email saying the item is in stock goes to the page to find the item already sold out? (Has happened to friends of mine) Does he fill out another "interest form" next time. or start watching the site like a hawk? By the way, MBK recently had the MTH Gevo Hybrid Demo in quantity of 60+, so to see the Genesis flared SD70M in quantities of 4 (sound) and 6 (non-sound) per SKU surprised me. Some of the Athearn container 3-packs started with quantities of 36 each SKU (and some of those are now below 12). On the flared SD70M units Athearn page has been showing "Out of Stock" for every one for several days stunting the reorder possibility, so unless they have a separate shipment that hasn't arrived yet, or some not listed yet... well... In the past with a few items that I indicated my interest on with MBK. I received a email with a link to a "private" page with the items (when they arrived) that I wanted that was not visible if you went to MBK site directly without the link. You were given a short time to make your purchases before MBK made the page available on the website to everyone. I don't know if MBK still does this or not since it been several years since I used the MBK product notification system. |
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Post by WP 257 on Mar 5, 2015 6:49:08 GMT -8
I, too, have received the private email and early access to be able to have time to pick up items I was interested in.
But I am not able to confirm whether or not that is still the process.
In any case, I can understand the frustration of the folks who missed out on the good price, but at the same time, they should still be able to find them elsewhere, just at higher prices.
For me, it comes down to how badly I really "need" this or that, and increasingly, I'm looking toward new old stock Katos over some of the new engines--but I know that won't work for everybody, and I also have a brand new engine on order, too.
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Post by NS4122 on Mar 5, 2015 6:51:36 GMT -8
The MBK Advance Product Notice used to be great. You would get the email several hours before the product went live. Now, if you get an email, you get it 5 minutes before the product goes live. Not very helpful.
I tried something different and pre-ordered my NS SD70M from Factory Direct Trains. The price was better than MBK's and I'll have it today. Given the trend of MBK ordering very limited quantities of Athearn locomotives, I may seriously consider FTD for future purchases.
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Post by atsfan on Mar 5, 2015 6:55:18 GMT -8
Welcome to the modern Model Railroad hobby.
If I can't find it I can't buy it.
Also a good example of why I rarely use a MBK as they never have items unless you live on their website by the minute.
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Post by curtmc on Mar 5, 2015 6:55:44 GMT -8
Would you call those who wanted more than 2 UP SD70Ms hoarders? After all, they were done in 4 different numbers, and UP commonly ran sets of 3 or 4 SD70Ms together when those units were new...
There was the potential for big time hoarding since MBK did not have sales limited to quantity of 1 per SKU per customer (as they have done on other items in the past) but I do not think that was the case here... I'm sure some bought 3 or 4 UP, others pairs, but I don't think 10-20 went to one buyer. As I did page refreshes and watched the "# in stock" numbers go down (as the system does when items are paid for, not placed in carts) they were going down in single (1) increments, not going from 6 to 0 (like the FNM cabooses appeared to do).
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Post by atsfan on Mar 5, 2015 7:01:23 GMT -8
Gotta ask: Does MBK still have the policy where it is recommended that you "indicate your interest" in buying engine XYZ that is coming, but do not actually place a formal reservation or pre-order or whatever you want to call it? Because if not enough customers "indicated their interest" in these models then there's nothing they can do. Typically, they place a quick re-order, and for the sake of any customers who might have missed out, I hope they are able to do that with these models. Nothing else? How about simply ordering more,upfront Clearly Athearn and MBK lost sales and profits but this ridiculous limited run sell out in 11 minutes nonsense. What next, camping outside the stores for days? |
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Post by curtmc on Mar 5, 2015 7:17:08 GMT -8
A friend got one of those emails on an item last year while he was at work... He had to wait until he got home 3 hours later to try to purchase - and found them sold out. It shifted his entire view of the hobby.
It is interesting that somebody mentioned camping out at the store... How about working there and not getting something? I had actually called MBK on Monday afternoon to ask when the Athearn SD70Ms would be listed and the customer service person said that they had received a ton of calls asking that, and that they did not have an answer - as the shipment was on the way but not yet there, and not yet scheduled for delivery. We discussed their limited supply situation, quick sellouts, and he said they were impacted too... He himself had been off one day when a Walthers car he wanted came in and sold out that first day in stock. So it sounds like the people even working there are having the same issues on the limited supply and ZERO chance of restocks on some items.
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Mar 5, 2015 7:58:37 GMT -8
I believe the Federal Government should get involved so that everyone that wants their model rr items gets as many as they want every time at the lowest possible price. Isn't it our right to have as many toy trains as we want?
How many people may have missed out if they weren't using their computers at work?
I've used Klein more than most but have always found what I wanted at another outlet at a decent price. Factory Direct Trains mentioned is always a good source if you want to reserve something. They've gone from being the back door into BLI to a fairly rounded product selection. Some people already have their SD70 flares. One fellow on my email list sent photos of his last evening running a train on his layout.
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Post by atsfan on Mar 5, 2015 8:14:05 GMT -8
Klien's needs to have an option to show only in stock items.
95% of their Genesis items listed, they don't have.
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Post by atsfan on Mar 5, 2015 8:16:29 GMT -8
A friend got one of those emails on an item last year while he was at work... He had to wait until he got home 3 hours later to try to purchase - and found them sold out. It shifted his entire view of the hobby. It is interesting that somebody mentioned camping out at the store... How about working there and not getting something? I had actually called MBK on Monday afternoon to ask when the Athearn SD70Ms would be listed and the customer service person said that they had received a ton of calls asking that, and that they did not have an answer - as the shipment was on the way but not yet there, and not yet scheduled for delivery. We discussed their limited supply situation, quick sellouts, and he said they were impacted too... He himself had been off one day when a Walthers car he wanted came in and sold out that first day in stock. So it sounds like the people even working there are having the same issues on the limited supply and ZERO chance of restocks on some items. Name another hobby with this type of ridiculous supply system? For an industry that is chasing discretionary hobby dollars, is sure is working overtime to drive as many customers and dollars away. |
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Post by scl1234 on Mar 5, 2015 8:23:58 GMT -8
Would you call those who wanted more than 2 UP SD70Ms hoarders? After all, they were done in 4 different numbers, and UP commonly ran sets of 3 or 4 SD70Ms together when those units were new... If they bought more than one of same road number unit, I'd consider that meeting the hoarder definition. Not three or four different road numbers in the same paint scheme. Hoarding seems more common for popular road names (UP, BNSF, CSX, NS). |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Mar 5, 2015 8:29:10 GMT -8
That's the approximate answer to how long it took MBK to sell out of ~24 Genesis non-sound UP flared SD70Ms this afternoon... Was this 24 models per road number? or 24 models total spread out among four road numbers? |
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Post by nightmare0331 on Mar 5, 2015 8:44:31 GMT -8
I would hazard a guess that pre-orders for these items from Athearn were fairly conservative due to a 'wait and see approach' so extremely large quantities weren't ordered. How many Horizon has sitting in their warehouse I have no idea.
The flip side to the whole 'they didn't make enough' argument is most manufacturers/importers have gotten gun shy about ordering large excess amounts of product for the potential sales that may or may not be there. There is usually an initial surge with new product which I would assume has been accounted for with an extra percentage over preorders, but how many, who knows. I'm sure you'll see more pop up somewhere as the inevitable reactionary reorders go out (be it Kleins, Lombard, Trainworld, etc). After that, sales of any item tend to fall off rapidly as demand gets satiated, then you run into the problem if a product is over-produced...devaluation and excess inventory.
The way things are generally done in this industry are far from perfect, but there's no clear solution to address the issue. No smart manufacturer is deliberately leaving money on the table trying to screw the end consumer/hobbyist out of a product they want to enjoy, however the alternative of making lots of extras isn't always a viable option...especially at the cost of these items. Keep in mind you can't pay the bills with a stack of product sitting in a warehouse collecting dust tying up capital.
Enjoy!
Kelley.
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Post by curtmc on Mar 5, 2015 8:55:38 GMT -8
scl1234, I fully agreed with that assessment with only one exception - the case where a buyer also ordered decals for renumbering...
Some might notice that I said that I rushed to add items to my cart and place the order. I added 10 items to cart, filled out all the address and billing and payment stuff and placed order in less than 5 minutes (which has to be a new record given my not-so-fast typing skills). When I saw there were so few UP SD70Ms listed, the relatively low price, and no limit (and having both heard and participated in all the begging for flared SD70Ms in HO plastic for more than a decade), the thought was the need to order just what I wanted before somebody else bought ALL of them... In years past I might have added some Atlas or IM cars, but in this case I already knew the Trainman ACF 3560s listed only a couple days ago were already long sold out, so no use wasting time trying to add any of those (so they lost sales in that regard too). I didn't want a repeat of an aborted order back last summer when I added some Trainman TTX flats to cart (quantity in stock was 10+ when placed in cart) and had them and some other cars disappear from cart (sold out) before my order could be completed...
PS. Jim, I would have expected 24 each but in this case it was 24 total... That's why I knew I had to rush order and why I thought I'd watch and see how fast they sold out... The BNSF SD75i and CN SD70s had like numbers, but unlike the UP SD70Ms that sold in minutes, and the NS SD70Ms that sold in hours, those will probably be gone in a few days.
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Post by iccn1000 on Mar 5, 2015 9:15:50 GMT -8
Horizon had sold out of the UP Flares in both sound and nonsound in one day. That was last Friday.. Face it.. they are hot ticket item, and no one preorders... Rob Gruber www.dcctrain.com |
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Post by milgentrains on Mar 5, 2015 9:42:51 GMT -8
I'm glad that the Athearn HS patched NOPB boxcar was not as hot as the SD-70m's. Thankfully a switching layout does not need SD-70's.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Mar 5, 2015 9:45:59 GMT -8
It is highly unlikely the way we order and receive new product is going to change anytime soon. So some observations on how both retailer and customer can get what they want.
In the case of the 24 units spread out over four numbers that equates to a mere six per number. That is hardly a large number and it is no wonder that they went so fast. The anticipation for these much wished for models had to also fuel the buying frenzy. So the sell out in just over ten minutes is still kind of amazing but also understandable as modern UP fans had been sitting on pins and needles for months.
Now lets look at solutions.
1. Model Train Stuff needs to chuck their current system and begin taking reservations. Their current system is akin to throwing a chunk of meat into the middle of a pack of starving lions. Every man, woman and child for themselves is not going to cut it with the ZERO available stock over reservation numbers by the manufacturers. Lets not throw Athearn under the bus all by itself. The owner of my LHS has said ALL manufacturers are cutting the fat out of any stock. MTS needs to take firm reservations allow the customer at least a few days to a week to pay. Then they need to decide how many, if any, models above those reservation numbers they want to stock. This solves the problem of people missing out because they couldn't get to computer, tablet, smart phone or regular telephone to place the order. Piss off enough customers and no matter how good your prices are people will stop using you and go elsewhere.
2. The issue of hording or buying stuff to flip for a profit on evil-Bay is very real. Klein offers excellent prices and in the case of this model and nearly everything else, there is simply no stock and everything sells out in a few days. Someone will miss out and JUST HAVE TO HAVE SOME PARTICULAR MODEL. Enter the person that can now sell that model they bought at discount prices for an amount at or above MSRP. Even after nearly 15% in fees from San Jose, they still make some money. Anyone that doesn't think that this ISN'T happening must believe in unicorns.
3. The reason MTS sold out so fast was because the numbers they did have were so paltry. Had they placed an order for 48 models instead of 24, I'm sure their buddies at Horizon/Athearn would have been more than willing to have Athearn's Chinese factory crank out 24 more. The more models Athearn sells, the more money Athearn makes. So in the future MTS needs to review how many it is ordering. MTS is not dumb, they realize they can no longer get restocks on many items. In this case, MTS played it close to the vest in numbers, had they ordered those 48 models and two month from now were trying to blow out the stragglers, this very forum would be saying "see these don't sell", "the hobby is dying", etc. etc. etc.......
4. As far as the employee at MTS not getting a model, I find that a little hard to believe. Not saying that it didn't happen but most firms take care of their workers. Holding one model for a person because it is their day off, isn't going to throw the company's bottom line into the red. Again, FIRM RESERVATIONS, solves everything.
5. All retailers need to realize that if they don't reserve it, they are not going to be able to get it. Sure this puts all the pressure of stocking on the retailer, but the evil model train manufacturers are not the only industry to saddle their retail network with the burden of stock. The automobile manufacturers have done this for decades and a car costs a biiiiiiiiiiiit more than a toy train.
Folks can mash the keyboard on this forum all they want complaining about the current state of affairs in model railroading. But, there must be enough people both retailers and modelers that accept this system and are making it work the best that can be expected. A few complainers isn't going to change the new product system. It is what it is....get used to it or find some other hobby. I think the majority have resigned themselves to accept the "new world order" of model trains.
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Post by atsfan on Mar 5, 2015 9:54:26 GMT -8
Horizon had sold out of the UP Flares in both sound and nonsound in one day. That was last Friday.. Face it.. they are hot ticket item, and no one preorders... Rob Gruber www.dcctrain.comFace,it, Athearn left easy money on the table. Their loss. |
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Post by atsfan on Mar 5, 2015 9:57:19 GMT -8
It is highly unlikely the way we order and receive new product is going to change anytime soon. So some observations on how both retailer and customer can get what they want. In the case of the 24 units spread out over four numbers that equates to a mere six per number. That is hardly a large number and it is no wonder that they went so fast. The anticipation for these much wished for models had to also fuel the buying frenzy. So the sell out in just over ten minutes is still kind of amazing but also understandable as modern UP fans had been sitting on pins and needles for months. Now lets look at solutions. 1. Model Train Stuff needs to chuck their current system and begin taking reservations. Their current system is akin to throwing a chunk of meat into the middle of a pack of starving lions. Every man, woman and child for themselves is not going to cut it with the ZERO available stock over reservation numbers by the manufacturers. Lets not throw Athearn under the bus all by itself. The owner of my LHS has said ALL manufacturers are cutting the fat out of any stock. MTS needs to take firm reservations allow the customer at least a few days to a week to pay. Then they need to decide how many, if any, models above those reservation numbers they want to stock. This solves the problem of people missing out because they couldn't get to computer, tablet, smart phone or regular telephone to place the order. Piss off enough customers and no matter how good your prices are people will stop using you and go elsewhere. 2. The issue of hording or buying stuff to flip for a profit on evil-Bay is very real. Klein offers excellent prices and in the case of this model and nearly everything else, there is simply no stock and everything sells out in a few days. Someone will miss out and JUST HAVE TO HAVE SOME PARTICULAR MODEL. Enter the person that can now sell that model they bought at discount prices for an amount at or above MSRP. Even after nearly 15% in fees from San Jose, they still make some money. Anyone that doesn't think that this ISN'T happening must believe in unicorns. 3. The reason MTS sold out so fast was because the numbers they did have were so paltry. Had they placed an order for 48 models instead of 24, I'm sure their buddies at Horizon/Athearn would have been more than willing to have Athearn's Chinese factory crank out 24 more. The more models Athearn sells, the more money Athearn makes. So in the future MTS needs to review how many it is ordering. MTS is not dumb, they realize they can no longer get restocks on many items. In this case, MTS played it close to the vest in numbers, had they ordered those 48 models and two month from now were trying to blow out the stragglers, this very forum would be saying "see these don't sell", "the hobby is dying", etc. etc. etc....... 4. As far as the employee at MTS not getting a model, I find that a little hard to believe. Not saying that it didn't happen but most firms take care of their workers. Holding one model for a person because it is their day off, isn't going to throw the company's bottom line into the red. Again, FIRM RESERVATIONS, solves everything. 5. All retailers need to realize that if they don't reserve it, they are not going to be able to get it. Sure this puts all the pressure of stocking on the retailer, but the evil model train manufacturers are not the only industry to saddle their retail network with the burden of stock. The automobile manufacturers have done this for decades and a car costs a biiiiiiiiiiiit more than a toy train. Folks can mash the keyboard on this forum all they want complaining about the current state of affairs in model railroading. But, there must be enough people both retailers and modelers that accept this system and are making it work the best that can be expected. A few complainers isn't going to change the new product system. It is what it is....get used to it or find some other hobby. I think the majority have resigned themselves to accept the "new world order" of model trains. Name another hobby ignoring customers and saying if you don't like it find some other hobby ? As for new world order, that includes many people simply saying they won't spend the money. Or camp out or lurk on websites for days hoping to buy an engine. |
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Post by bnsftcdiv on Mar 5, 2015 10:16:47 GMT -8
Horizon had sold out of the UP Flares in both sound and nonsound in one day. That was last Friday.. Face it.. they are hot ticket item, and no one preorders... Rob Gruber www.dcctrain.comFace,it, Athearn left easy money on the table. Their loss. Athearn isn't worried-the demand will be there for a rerun. At a higher price? It's likely already in the pipe line. And didn't Athearn and Horizon separate…? Dave |
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Post by riogrande on Mar 5, 2015 10:22:20 GMT -8
According the the wiki, "Athearn is a United States manufacturer of model railroad equipment, produced and distributed by American hobby manufacturer Horizon Hobby, Inc. of Champaign, Illinois, USA."
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Post by milgentrains on Mar 5, 2015 10:38:18 GMT -8
I gave up collecting Hot Wheels cars for this very reason. The feeding frenzy that erupted when a new box of Hot Wheels got to the store was amazing. Finding Treasure hunts was next to impossible.
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Post by rails4dmv on Mar 5, 2015 10:46:42 GMT -8
Wow, I hope Rapido's FL-9 & F40PH models sell out that fast!
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