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Post by riogrande on May 13, 2015 5:30:54 GMT -8
C. Consignment brass does typically take awhile to sell--but it does sell. My one friend had more than 20 pieces of his own brass inventory and sold them all (relatively recently) through the local train store where he works. It does sell, still. Yes. I sold my Kumata OL/HCB/Challenger 11 car brass CZ set through Caboose Hobbies - it did take a while - well over a year IIRC and I had to knock the price down once or twice. OMI may have just made the decision to not import any new brass at this time. They could shift those assets over to do something that is profitable today. If and when the climate for brass becoimes favorable, then they may start importing again. In the case of Caboose Hobbies, I sure that were treating OMI's stuff just like Atlas. They have pre orders on a model. The release date becomes delayed for some reason. Periodically, they are checking with the importer as to the status. This time, OMI said cancel because it is not coming together for what ever reason. As soon as they know that, they are obligated to send the deposits back, if possible. Because they did that may mean OMI returned the money to them as well. Good point. It sounds like we really don't know for sure since we haven't gotten the official word. It's always safest to rely on direct information rather than speculate. |
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Post by WP 257 on May 13, 2015 7:09:23 GMT -8
From what I have read in print, including comments made on the Overland Models website from time to time, they faced skyrocketing costs at the builder level (in South Korea people wanted better wages, etc.) and/or a change in builder(s) such that the caboose project on the books for several years now will be impossible to deliver for the MSRP's originally intended. I don't have to wait for some "final word" to understand that the simple reality is brass limited production, accurate, cabooses with lights, etc. are not going to be delivered, factory painted, for the generally $300 MSRP by any builder in the world that would meet acceptable brass quality standards. That day has come and gone. The ship has sailed. I don't think any magical builder is going to come on the scene tomorrow that will be able to deliver that caboose project at or anywhere near that outdated price point. If I recall correctly, Overland Models cabooses were at that price point nearly a decade ago. It seems unreasonable to think that it can be done again.
Even brass passenger cars from other builders are now in the $700 range, so a caboose at $300 does not compute for me.
For the later diesel models, at the higher price point, perhaps there's still hope for some of those projects, but perhaps not?
I wish it were different, but...wishes don't pay the bills for Brian.
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Post by bnsf971 on May 13, 2015 8:49:22 GMT -8
?? but never looked under one,so not sure what did move them ? Spikre  ...Epileptic gerbils?... |
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 13, 2015 10:59:59 GMT -8
When the cabeese and NW5's were announced, the prices were in line with other importers. And if OMI had brought them in at the normal speed, things would likely have worked out. But they did not. So they're faced with raising the prices. And the folks who ordered them will tend to say that if OMI had handled things expediently, there would have been no need for a price rise. And been cranky.
It appears to me that OMI has been having ever increasing import problems ever since the T55 debacle. I would speculate that THAT is the reason things went into the toilet. Other folks are managing to bring in brass. Somehow. Someway. But of them all, only OMI decided to get into the plastic RTR market.
Ed
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Post by jaygee on May 13, 2015 13:50:38 GMT -8
If you're gonna survive in today's brass world, you better be mighty resourceful and have multiple plans of attack. It's hardly an easy lifestyle....even if you are successful ! If questioned, I'd have to point out Sunset 3rd. as being perhaps the most balanced importer today, and reasonably effective as well. Scott Mann has done well, and effectively gotten into a variety of markets. Could Overland have done the same. Well, from my limited knowledge...they almost did. T55 had awesome potential, and had they not lost the vision, who knows. We could have had multiple GTEL 8500s by now, as well as a host of desireable stuff in HO, mebby even other scales too. Sometimes we just give up too easy. I believe the market is still viable for certain brass product, and the market bears that out.
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Post by calzephyr on May 13, 2015 15:11:00 GMT -8
There is a market for the 3rd rail models in brass and Sunset has done well with that market. I purchased five of their recent HO locos with sound in the past two years, but they are middle of the road in quality. I am done with those unless they step up the quality and have since resold three of the five.
Larry
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Post by Dear Leader on May 13, 2015 15:16:14 GMT -8
It's all just speculation, gossip and here say. I feel like I'm in a beauty parlor listening to a bunch of gossips.
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Post by BEDT26 on May 13, 2015 15:56:19 GMT -8
Well I said Overland Models demise was coming and it is true. I got the email from my two reservations that reads: Notice - All Overland Models future brass productions have been cancelled! dvm 05-12-15 So the brass market is surely taking a hit!! I was truly just hoping for at least one more run of the late SD70ACe engines before the demise but that will not happen! RIP 2015 - Overland Models Inc. Brass Division.  RIP Overpriced Models !!! |
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Post by eh49 on May 13, 2015 16:34:18 GMT -8
I could care less what Caboose Hobbies said. Has anyone called Overland to see if it is true or not?
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Post by atsfan on May 13, 2015 17:40:44 GMT -8
I could care less what Caboose Hobbies said. Has anyone called Overland to see if it is true or not? Emails and calls. Radio silence. Does it really matter? No. They are not releasing anything so they are not in the brass business. If and when they ever actually get a metal model into the USA for actual sale, then they would be again. But until they do, RIP. |
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Post by Dear Leader on May 13, 2015 17:48:17 GMT -8
Well I said Overland Models demise was coming and it is true. I got the email from my two reservations that reads: Notice - All Overland Models future brass productions have been cancelled! dvm 05-12-15 So the brass market is surely taking a hit!! I was truly just hoping for at least one more run of the late SD70ACe engines before the demise but that will not happen! RIP 2015 - Overland Models Inc. Brass Division. RIP Overpriced Models !!! Everything is overpriced. You sound bitter you may have missed OMI in it's prime, that's if OMI's demise is fact. Everyone makes choices in life, to buy brass, marry, have kids, buy a house they can't afford, "toys" that sit in the driveway. Yes, your bitterness is showing. Overpriced? No, not for those that made the right choices in life and can enjoy the fruits of their labor by indulging in the finer things of life.
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Post by Dear Leader on May 13, 2015 17:51:12 GMT -8
I could care less what Caboose Hobbies said. Has anyone called Overland to see if it is true or not? Emails and calls. Radio silence. Does it really matter? No. They are not releasing anything so they are not in the brass business. If and when they ever actually get a metal model into the USA for actual sale, then they would be again. But until they do, RIP. WOW! Judge, jury, executioner. |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on May 13, 2015 18:00:13 GMT -8
It's all just speculation, gossip and here say. I feel like I'm in a beauty parlor listening to a bunch of gossips. Was just having that train of thought. Sort of like the gawkers at a car crash. "Anybody dead yet?" What fun would that be?  |
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Post by atsfan on May 13, 2015 18:12:24 GMT -8
Emails and calls. Radio silence. Does it really matter? No. They are not releasing anything so they are not in the brass business. If and when they ever actually get a metal model into the USA for actual sale, then they would be again. But until they do, RIP. WOW! Judge, jury, executioner. Nope, just reality observer. What is the difference between a company that says it stopped making a product and stops making it, versus a company that does not say anything and stops making the product? |
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on May 13, 2015 19:06:00 GMT -8
RIP Overpriced Models !!! Everything is overpriced. You sound bitter you may have missed OMI in it's prime, that's if OMI's demise is fact. Everyone makes choices in life, to buy brass, marry, have kids, buy a house they can't afford, "toys" that sit in the driveway. Yes, your bitterness is showing. Overpriced? No, not for those that made the right choices in life and can enjoy the fruits of their labor by indulging in the finer things of life.
First of all, who are you Coastdaylight? I have bought and own about 12 or 13 Overpricedland SD70ACe and SD70M flared models and I think they are a expensive as well but it is the price I pay to get a top of the line model with the most realistic paint shine. They are certainly not a "great price" model but I just love those OMI SD70ACe and SD70M Flared/Phase II models so I buy about 2 a year. bedt26 does not sound bitter to me. I buy those gorgeous Overland SD70ACe & SD70M models because I have used LAYAWAY  to purchase most of those 12-13 engines I own. He thinks they are overpriced and that is his opinion, it is not to be considered "Bitter" because he thinks that way but I guess you are the judge of that one right? He thinks they are overpriced and I think they are just mad expensive, who is right? I know damn well that I selfishly spend $700-850 for one OMI engine simply because I like them and have bought them back before anyone made plastic versions of those models, PLUS I have been lucky to be in the position to be able to do so thru the years. Although I have fell on some hard times and almost sold off some to get some fast cash. I only sold two of the SD70ACe thru the years, they were #8324 and a SP Heritage 1996. A couple of years ago I bought the same numbers (Not the same engines) back. I really wanted my first #8324 SD70ACe that I ever bought back and got lucky on Ebay a couple of years ago and I regretted selling my $750 SP Heritage engine about 5 years ago but I needed some cash at the time and I got a nice $960 for it and about 1-2 years ago I bought another SP Heritage and only paid $800 since the Heritage hype had cooled down. |
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Post by Judge Doom on May 13, 2015 19:21:04 GMT -8
Emails and calls. Radio silence. Does it really matter? No. They are not releasing anything so they are not in the brass business. If and when they ever actually get a metal model into the USA for actual sale, then they would be again. But until they do, RIP. WOW! Judge, jury, executioner. Hey, that's my job.  |
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Post by WP 257 on May 13, 2015 20:37:18 GMT -8
Well, at times I experienced a few QA/QC issues with Overland's products, but most were indeed great--and most (tower gear drive or later versions) run very well indeed--and reliably.
There's engines I wish I would've kept. The second owner of my f/p Reading G1sa pacific loves it as his favorite model--ever.
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Post by Donnell Wells on May 14, 2015 4:21:11 GMT -8
Until we get an official word from Overland, it's all speculation. This thread is deteriorating. Please keep it civil.
Thanks,
Donnell
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Post by BEDT26 on May 14, 2015 14:30:35 GMT -8
Mr. Coastdaylight I am not angry or bitter but my experience with OMI models in the past were not good with the many models I purchased. When you buy models at hundreds of dollars and the models start falling apart and run like crap, derailing all over the place, the locomotives losing contact because of the lousy electrical contact design them yes I have the right to my own opinion. For the amount of money I payed I expect those models to be better than what they really are !
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Post by mlehman on May 15, 2015 9:26:34 GMT -8
From what I have read in print, including comments made on the Overland Models website from time to time, they faced skyrocketing costs at the builder level (in South Korea people wanted better wages, etc.) and/or a change in builder(s) such that the caboose project on the books for several years now will be impossible to deliver for the MSRP's originally intended. I don't have to wait for some "final word" to understand that the simple reality is brass limited production, accurate, cabooses with lights, etc. are not going to be delivered, factory painted, for the generally $300 MSRP by any builder in the world that would meet acceptable brass quality standards. That day has come and gone. The ship has sailed. I don't think any magical builder is going to come on the scene tomorrow that will be able to deliver that caboose project at or anywhere near that outdated price point. SNIP I suspect you're just about right as to where things are. Having done satisfied business with both OMI and Caboose Hobbies over the years, Caboose is telling it like it is just trying to be fair to everyone and OMI is, well, a lot like the brass importer it was. It may be some time before anything "official" trickles out and it may be cryptic when it comes. It may turn out they're not as out as they are right now. But I'll bet none of those pending projects show up anytime soon FWIW.  |
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on May 15, 2015 16:13:55 GMT -8
Why won't they announce that they are out of the brass business? Simple Answer, All the deposits that have actually been placed after a year or two ago when they announced that they wanted a 10-20% deposit to keep prsent reservations on pre-ordered engines. If they made that announcement official at this moment, well I am sure a lot of people who did place reservations are going to instantly want their money back and who could blame them. Maybe the dealers have their deposits and that is who will be affected by the announcement and not OMI. Someone is going to have to pay back those deposits though. Think about it really, if this was just a rumor and NOT true, OMI would have quickly refuted this so called "rumor" and ensured all buyers and dealers that it is NOT TRUE. Have they done that yet? Nope. I am SURE some people from this forum and other places have already made attempts to get this info from OMI directly and yet no one has even posted to say that, "They spoke to Briam and was told that they are still importing brass models and the email I received is simply not true" Has anyone posted that yet either? Nope.
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Post by atsfan on May 15, 2015 17:51:33 GMT -8
Why won't they announce that they are out of the brass business? Simple Answer, All the deposits that have actually been placed after a year or two ago when they announced that they wanted a 10-20% deposit to keep prsent reservations on pre-ordered engines. If they made that announcement official at this moment, well I am sure a lot of people who did place reservations are going to instantly want their money back and who could blame them. Maybe the dealers have their deposits and that is who will be affected by the announcement and not OMI. Someone is going to have to pay back those deposits though. Think about it really, if this was just a rumor and NOT true, OMI would have quickly refuted this so called "rumor" and ensured all buyers and dealers that it is NOT TRUE. Have they done that yet? Nope. I am SURE some people from this forum and other places have already made attempts to get this info from OMI directly and yet no one has even posted to say that, "They spoke to Briam and was told that they are still importing brass models and the email I received is simply not true" Has anyone posted that yet either? Nope. Funny all the people who were going to call and write direct are radio silent...... |
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Post by atsfan on May 15, 2015 17:56:28 GMT -8
Until we get an official word from Overland, it's all speculation. This thread is deteriorating. Please keep it civil.
Thanks,
Donnell Odds are there won't be anything "official" At some point reality sets in. Many people,have had girlfriends who,stopped,calling or answering the phone. Doesn't mean she is going to show up though since she didn't officially break up. |
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Post by WP 257 on May 15, 2015 18:21:07 GMT -8
I thought it was over 18 months ago when the website got particularly out-of-date...
Like other importers who one day just were no longer importing, this may be the closest thing to an "official" announcement we ever see.
I only have a small reservation on a caboose, which I had changed to a different one, from a dealer who allegedly had many cabooses on reserve with OMI. I have no way of knowing if Overland actually required any deposits from that large dealer, or if the deposits were simply taken by the dealer and retained.
Either way, I doubt I'll ever see that $50 again.
John
If I recall correctly, Pecos River Brass never made any big official announcement, either, but instead a few products trickled in toward the end, so they kinda just "faded" out as the owner got more involved with his music career. He was a colorful chap...
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Post by Spikre on May 18, 2015 11:26:46 GMT -8
?? outside of Big Al that had some "Flare" reservations,WHO here actually had ANY Deposits with Overland,or any Brass Dealers ? and that Lack of actual deposits makes it clear why OMI is packing it in. over 5 years back Spikre[was one of those that] predicted the "Death Of The Brass Market". we took a lot of hits that we didn't know what we were talking about,but now it sure looks like we did. and while there will be Brass models still imported on a very limited basis,the "Glory Days" are sure OVER. Spikre  |
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Post by mlehman on May 18, 2015 11:35:57 GMT -8
SNIP over 5 years back Spikre predicted the "Death of the Brass Market". we took a lot of hits that we didn't know what we were talking about,but now it sure looks like we did. SNIP Spikre, Bless your prognostication skills, but people have been predicting the death of brass since the early 60s. I guess they're all right, too? And there is the fact that even a stopped clock is right twice a day. And you're right only once in 5 years? That is an impressive track record  |
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Post by Spikre on May 18, 2015 11:48:50 GMT -8
Mike, guess You missed some of those wing ding topics over at Atlas ?? but that wasn't really the main part of that Post. while earlier pages had a lot of Noise,very few except Big Al and John, admitted to having Actual reservations. that was what was found odd here. but many acted like all their models were from Overland. and that was found over the top here. there is also that current Big Boy thread to consider. Spikre
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Post by mlehman on May 18, 2015 12:01:42 GMT -8
Spikre, Just having a little fun with you here. Glad you're game. No, no reservations here. When I bought my Rio Grande caboose fleet a few years back, my dealer didn't require any, but times change. Certainly, it was symptom in retrospect when more dealers found themselves in that position, as well as consumers. Was it a sign of impending death? Perhaps. More likely at the time, it was a sign of trying to avoid death. As one of my ex's used to say, "Where there is life, there is hope..." -- right up until the love dies |
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Post by bdhicks on May 18, 2015 21:17:48 GMT -8
I got the same e-mail as Al did about the GP20C-ECO I preordered, but I don't remember Caboose actually asking for a deposit, although that might be because that project never really had an announced timeframe.
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Post by WP 257 on May 19, 2015 6:20:28 GMT -8
I have/had one reservation for a brass Overland Models caboose, placed in April of 2013. I recently inquired from that dealer as to whether or not their reservations will be cancelled and/or any of the deposits returned, in light of Caboose Hobbies cancelling their Overland reservations.
As of today, I have not heard back from that large southern US brass dealer as to what they are going to do. They took $50 deposits on each caboose reserved with them (of which there are plenty of reservations according to their website, and the number of slots that are or were showing as "sold out"). I have no way of knowing if Overland themselves required the deposits--though I am suspicious that Overland most likely did not require deposits on small stuff like cabooses. In the past, that was not really their style, as seemed to come out with the Canadian Model Trains fiasco, where CMT took "deposits" that OMI themselves may not have required or fully received ie CMT may have required larger deposits from their customers than OMI required from CMT. Years ago, I had done a lot of buying/trading with CMT...but that's a whole other topic in itself.
Please be aware that I was only a small player in the brass market when I was in my 20's and 30's. I bought/sold/traded about 80 different HO brass models (that I can remember and list) over a decade, and received quite an education as to what was good/reliable to play with and what was not. However, at that time I was never on a huge budget, so I only owned say 4 to 8 brass models at any one given time (but some were articulateds, or big steam, etc.) I was curious to try out everything I could.
I have seen Brian Marsh go the extra mile to personally help me out with a defective item, even taking it back to Korea for attempted re-plating, and I was very thankful for that. He also made available virtually unlimited parts (metric screws, trucks, drive mechanism parts, etc.) for a friend of mine who rebuilt earlier Overland diesels from tank drive to tower gear drive units, who gladly paid for fairly large quantities of Overland parts. I'm very sorry to see they have had difficulties the last few years.
Now that my kids are growing up and no longer into trains much at all, I'm only buying what I like, and have been weighing my options: do I go the brass hybrid route and buy BLI's latest offerings which include stuff I really want to own like the T&P 2-10-4? Or do I go the vintage brass route once again and buy older, smaller stuff that will actually negotiate my 26.4" radius curves (with 28.75" radius easements)?
So while I have only bought one brass steamer in the last couple years (which was misrepresented by the seller), I'm investigating buying brass once again, and this topic has been helpful.
I've been doing more homework now like buying the latest edition of the Illustrated Guide to HO Santa Fe Brass Steam Locomotives to catch up on "recent" releases, etc.
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to purchase most of those 12-13 engines I own. He thinks they are overpriced and that is his opinion, it is not to be considered "Bitter" because he thinks that way but I guess you are the judge of that one right? He thinks they are overpriced and I think they are just mad expensive, who is right? I know damn well that I selfishly spend $700-850 for one OMI engine simply because I like them and have bought them back before anyone made plastic versions of those models, PLUS I have been lucky to be in the position to be able to do so thru the years. Although I have fell on some hard times and almost sold off some to get some fast cash. I only sold two of the SD70ACe thru the years, they were #8324 and a SP Heritage 1996. A couple of years ago I bought the same numbers (Not the same engines) back. I really wanted my first #8324 SD70ACe that I ever bought back and got lucky on Ebay a couple of years ago and I regretted selling my $750 SP Heritage engine about 5 years ago but I needed some cash at the time and I got a nice $960 for it and about 1-2 years ago I bought another SP Heritage and only paid $800 since the Heritage hype had cooled down. 
