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Post by mkulak on Aug 4, 2012 5:27:17 GMT -8
Well we are finally here, the day after the opening of the show and unless someone has something new hidden under the table for that last minute surprise we have seen all the new items to be announced at the this year show. Some thoughts on the each manufacturers new items: Atlas: A S-2 in N-gauge seemed to be thier biggest item for the show and nothing HO scale  You would think they would save something for the show but I guess we can continue to enjoy all the new paint schemes on existing models. Athearn: A lot of hype about Locos and it turned out to be the expected NS schemes and the 3 locos are two phases of SD70 and AC4400 Foobies. I expected another run of the the Genesis GP38-2. The FGE Reefer car is welcome. I am not sold on the sound unit and we could have used this car 10 years ago but at least we finally got it. Bachmann: I actually have to say I am impressed with the flat/trailer and MOW trucks. I might just buy one of the flat/trailers for use as a storage trailer by an industrial site. Now the "But" F7 upgrade? why? about a million out there and on ebay, etc. I think their were other locos they could have upgraded than the F7 but hey it is Bachmann! so why expect anything else!  BLMA: Nice signal bridge, but still wanted a new freight car. Craig where are those reefers(Tropicana)? Bowser: No Show? Exactrail: Great choice for a car, will be getting a few but will not pre-order anything and still not happy with them going to direct sale only. Intermountain: NS schemed GE units, a lot closer than the Athearn AC4400. No new freight car and would like to see another run of the ARMN Reefer with safety stripes in the near future. photo of the new autorack on Facebook looked interesting but the price is a bit prohibitive.  Walthers: A lot of passenger item announcement over the past year so did not expect much, hope to see a new freight car in the near future and I still want the 4427 hoppers done that they cancelled early this year.  Tangent: 4750 hopper a nice car and I will be buying a few as new roadnames come along. I still would have liked to see a new hopper like the dry-flow or another different semi-modern hopper. Moloco: Nice boxcar but to old for my time frame, hope to see more cars in the future. ;D Still waiting for someone to do these cars, caboose, and locos: U25C T-6 C-415 Carbon Black covered hoppers Trinity 5850 covered hopper Trinity 2-bay covered hopper NSC 2-bay covered hopper Container only spine cars Tropicana/BNSF modern reefers Epic Trash containers set Modern 40' & 53' Reefer containers Updated ACF 5250 Centerflow hopper CA-11 UP Caboose Feel free to enter your thoughts on the new announcements from the show! hopefully someone will have photos in the near future for us poor working smucks who could not go! LOL! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2012 6:50:08 GMT -8
I think the manufacturers are still hesitant about the economy and China. It does them no good to announce new product that ends up not arriving for a couple of years. The Athearn DDA40X was announced in March 2011 and didn't arrive until August 2012. Numerous delays and finally a year and a half later, it hits the shelves.
Athearn announcing their RTR stand in Gevo for the NS Heritage units is interesting. Just when does Athearn really expect these to be in the stores? Nearly ALL their RTR is TBA, so does this mean, Athearn will push the NS Heritage stand ins ahead of the rest of the already announced RTR models? At Athearn's current pace the NS Heritage units may be old and tired by the time the stand in RTR Gevo's arrive. And with Intermountain producing accurate models of the Gevo Heritage units, just who is going to buy the Athearn units? Maybe Athearn will end up cancelling their GE's due to lack of reservations. It is possible.
The days of mountains of brand new product seem to be ancient history. The manufacturers are not spending a lot of money or production time on from the ground up new items. Athearn's last new new locomotive was the GP38-2. It appears, Athearn will be dribbling those out in a small, but maybe steady pace. Like they've done in the past with the Genesis F's and now with the GP7/9.
For all looking for the Genesis GP7/9 rebuilds.......you may want to sit down, for it may be a while. Same for those waiting for THEIR road's version of the GP38-2. Slow and steady.
Walthers seems content to re-hash what they've got, with a tweek here and there.
I'm surprised that Bowser did not attend the show. I just checked Bowser's site and the C636 is now pushed back to November.....and that date is in Bowser's own words "estimated". I'll say sometime in 2013 for C636 to finally hit the shelves.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 4, 2012 8:02:51 GMT -8
Just to be sure, now new engines announced this year? That is telling for the hobby and the industry |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2012 8:49:24 GMT -8
Just to be sure, now new engines announced this year? That is telling for the hobby and the industry You are correct, there are no new from the ground up locomotives this year. |
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Post by buffalobill on Aug 4, 2012 9:21:39 GMT -8
Jim: I am not sure its the economy. I am willing to bet its the China issue. With the all of the issues over there with the contract manufacturers, I doubt we will see too much that's new for a while. Your observation about the Genesis DD40's is indicative of where the manufactures-importers are now. I am looking forward to the Genesis FGE reefers. I will buy three or four of them, and probably a couple each of the Exact Rail Bulhead flat and the Tangent 4750. But certainly no block busters here. We will have to live with new roads, and incremental changes to existing models.
Maybe by the Springfield show next year we will get a new loco or two announced. I am really surprised Atlas did not even announce a single car. But the FMC 5077 Boxes announced at last years show are still a ways out.
Bill
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Aug 4, 2012 11:29:43 GMT -8
I talked to Rob Pisani from Atlas and he said the hoped to have track in Sept. They are trying to hold price lines. He is aware of this forum.
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Post by riogrande on Aug 4, 2012 11:52:05 GMT -8
I talked to Rob Pisani from Atlas and he said the hoped to have track in Sept. They are trying to hold price lines. He is aware of this forum. Thats good. I'm not currently in the market for track as I have no space for even a small layout, but I hope I will be in a year or so. (I did save a good deal of track from my last layout which was never ballasted, including a lot of turnouts, some quite expensive if I had to replace like #8 shinohara and Walthers curved etc. |
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Post by drolsen on Aug 4, 2012 12:29:32 GMT -8
Atlas: A S-2 in N-gauge seemed to be thier biggest item for the show and nothing HO scale You would think they would save something for the show but I guess we can continue to enjoy all the new paint schemes on existing models. I was glad to see painted samples of the Atlas FMC 5077 box car, which a lot of people seem to have forgotten about when they complain about Atlas not releasing any new models. I think this is a significant product release, because up til now, there have been no quality Plate B box cars for '70s and later era modelers to go with the many Plate C cars, such as the IMRC PS 5277, the Athearn FMC 5347, ExactRail PS 5344, Evans / SIECO 5277s, etc. Definitely agree that we need some carbon black cars. Apparently Walthers had planned to produce at least one a few years back as part of an industry series (I think the automotive one with the reasoning being that carbon black is used for tires), but they decided the cars were too much like covered hoppers for people to be interested in them (or something to that effect). Just curious - which Trinity 2-bay are you referring to? These? CMEX 140013: drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2026983these? CSXT 242249: drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1237272or these? SDWX 10174: drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2026999SDWX 10228: drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1918522I'd definitely like to see some newer 2-bay covered hoppers, but I'd also love a quality PS 3000: CSXT 224967: drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2026974In both early (with horizontal side stiffener): ACFX 54836: drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1524709and late body styles: ACFX 56080: drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1408098A quality model of the 5250 is long overdue! Dave |
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Post by valenciajim on Aug 4, 2012 13:14:29 GMT -8
I think that what we are seeing is symptomatic of what we discussed ad nauseum on the old Atlas forum. The economy has to be taking its toll and the problems in China (both in terms of delays and cost increases) have to be pounding the manufacturers/importers.
Most of the really popular stuff has laready been made, so the manufacturers have to resort to foobie schemes and V&O/AM paint schemes to provide something new.
The industry consolidation we have been talking about will come, this year's lack of exciting announcements is but another indicator.
It is interesting that on one of these threads someone posted Bachmann had the most interesting announcements. The seem to be aiming for something above entry eleve but below top end. Perhaps that is where the future is going.
As to Walthers passenger train announcement. This not surprising since the adds for the Walthers 2013 catalog show this train on the cover. It is also not surprising that they didn;t do anything involving new tooling (like the El Capitan last year) given the state of the market.
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Post by mkulak on Aug 4, 2012 13:31:58 GMT -8
Dave,
Check your PM box for a note from me.
Mike
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Post by mkulak on Aug 4, 2012 13:42:52 GMT -8
Jim, I actually gave Bachmann a plus  for the new trailer they have coming even though for my time frame they will be used as storage trailers around buildings and factories. The MOW trucks look promising but the question will be how they run ?? |
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Post by valenciajim on Aug 4, 2012 13:47:29 GMT -8
Good points, but when was the last time anyone was excited about Bachmann's announcements?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2012 13:57:46 GMT -8
One economic issue that is going to impact future product is the cut in dealer discount. So far only Athearn and Walthers have done this in an attempt to hold the line on price. In the case of locomotives, the most expensive rolling stock, it means much higher "street prices". The just arrived Genesis DDA40X and Proto SP E9A 6051 model are shinning examples of VERY TIGHT production numbers. Very few, if any models were brought in for "stock" purposes.
Nobody that sells Athearn and Walthers products is exempt from having to raise prices due to the slashed discount. I looked at M.B. Klein and see the much higher prices. The "street price" is getting closer to the MSRP price.
When the next round of Genesis DDA40X's arrive they will be done under the new discount, unless Athearn raises the MSRP. The sound/DCC model is already at $500. Now instead of paying $350, which is 30% off, under the new discount the same model will be around $425, which is 15% off.
When Atlas states they "hope to have track in September" it doesn't exactly sound promising.
We want dates when a model is expected to arrive. But rarely is the date ever achieved, instead the arrival is pushed back about two to three times. In the case of Atlas and its factory's inability to push a needed staple out the door, how can a manufacturer even start to consider announcing new product and deliver it, within a "reasonable" amount of time and price?
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Post by mkulak on Aug 4, 2012 14:09:50 GMT -8
Jim,
I would say when they released the Acela Train(at least for us East Coasters anyway) a small rush of excitement when the HHP was announced, other than that most have been pretty much duds! LOL!
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Post by atsfan on Aug 4, 2012 15:18:13 GMT -8
I talked to Rob Pisani from Atlas and he said the hoped to have track in Sept. They are trying to hold price lines. He is aware of this forum. Trying? The price has already doubled, now it is not even available. I switched over to Peco track. Costs the same, and is better. Atlas can't even stock track anymore. |
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Post by curtmc on Aug 5, 2012 4:46:15 GMT -8
I was glad to see painted samples of the Atlas FMC 5077 box car, which a lot of people seem to have forgotten about Dave Dave, Many "forgot" about it at about the same time they saw the price it was going to be... $35 for a plate B boxcar that from a few feet away could be mistaken for a $3 Athearn railbox style car??? Many of us find that proposed pricing ridiculous. For our $35 we want SOMETHING DIFFERENT than what is already available (like a carbon black car, correct Tropicana reefer, or 3-pack of 53' reefer containers). The only repeats I want to see from Atlas are corrected runs to make up for the botched Thrall articulated well cars, and the botched paint jobs on prior D&H and BRC bicentennial units... - Curt Mc |
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Post by drolsen on Aug 5, 2012 5:49:44 GMT -8
Dave, Many "forgot" about it at about the same time they saw the price it was going to be... $35 for a plate B boxcar that from a few feet away could be mistaken for a $3 Athearn railbox style car??? Wow, what an absurd, laughable, and insulting response. I don't know what else to say. Dave |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Aug 5, 2012 6:03:08 GMT -8
Wow, the glass is half empty crowd is in full force. Obviously if someone has interest in something Bachmann is doing, the hobby has to be climbing into the handbasket for its trip to the hot and steamy forever.
With all that we see in the economic and political instability currently gripping the world we should be glad that our hobby contains businesses that are willing to take the risk, incur the wrath of the forum effete and
still try to make us some new toys to play with be they ever so flawed.
Thanks to all that do.
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Post by fmilhaupt on Aug 5, 2012 6:54:59 GMT -8
Bowser was not only there, their booth was pretty much front-and-center in the first row of booths as you come in the door.
Not having a lot of time to spend at the show this year, I didn't really spend much time at their booth aside seeing the C&O C630 there and drooling a bit.
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gp15t
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Post by gp15t on Aug 5, 2012 7:36:29 GMT -8
I spoke with Rob P. from Atlas and asked about GP40-2 phase II in Chessie. He said they have had countless requests for this unit and that they were planing a run sometime next year. He said to look for an announcement late this year. This could be good news for Chessie modelers! ;D
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Post by carrman on Aug 5, 2012 7:41:19 GMT -8
Great, good to see Atlas can crank out more paint schemes on pre-existing models.
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Post by mkulak on Aug 5, 2012 7:48:27 GMT -8
Good to hear Bowser was there, nothing was reported so I was not sure. I did not expect anything new considering the locos they are working on. Dave, All things considered Curt is entitled to his opinion, I myself agree that the FMC boxcar is not a good choice for a new freight car considering Athearn does the same car in RTR and the kits are still out there from MDC. Yes, those cars do have their flaws also but it is just not a needed car at this point especially at that price. I also agree Atlas should do something to correct the thrall stack cars. I spent time trying to fit a few dozen containers into the set and found only a few could fit, and they were Athearns!  They are great looking cars, but way to light, and what is with the piece over the male/female connectors, their was no to get past it and I finally just broke it off. |
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Post by atsfan on Aug 5, 2012 8:40:05 GMT -8
A $35 50 foot box car is forgettable.
Even though they may be great models, the simple fact is many, many modelers have FLEETS of 50 foot boxcars. I have many MDC models that are weathered and upgraded so I am not going to run out and replace them with these. Also, these cars have been what, a year in coming. For a 50 foot boxcar, a year?
Curt is right, from 3 feet or more way (on a layout) you can't see the difference.
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Aug 5, 2012 9:09:16 GMT -8
Curt is right, from 3 feet or more way (on a layout) you can't see the difference. That is a point I agree with, and have made more than once. On my rather large layout and another larger yet that I operate on I could really care less about the undercarriage detail or other fragile details, ladders or steps, that probably wouldn't survive the 0-5-0 switcher too many times. We want to be able to field decent sized trains with affordable cars. I am a big buyer of used or unbuilt Blue box, Roundhouse and Accurail cars for my layout at train shows or secondhand stores. The only time I'm even 3 feet away is during yard work and switching. I add metal wheelsets and KD#5s for their reliability and go railroading....er, play with my toys.... ;D That said I do have a dozen Exactrail cars in UP and a smattering of other more high detailed cars, just because I wanted them. Yes I left that 'Curt is right' in the quote intentionally... |
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Post by drolsen on Aug 5, 2012 9:17:35 GMT -8
Dave, All things considered Curt is entitled to his opinion, I myself agree that the FMC boxcar is not a good choice for a new freight car considering Athearn does the same car in RTR and the kits are still out there from MDC. Yes, those cars do have their flaws also but it is just not a needed car at this point especially at that price. The Atlas model is a different prototype. The Athearn and MDC models represent a taller Plate C FMC 5347, while the Atlas car is a lower Plate B FMC 5077. The Atlas model is the first quality Plate B box car model to show up after a significant number of taller Plate C models have (fortunately) been produced over the past decade - the Athearn FMC 5347, the ExactRail PS 5344, Evans 5277, FMC ABOX, Evans / SIECO 5277, Atlas ACF 5300, IMRC PS 5277 and FMC 5283, and others. For someone that wants to model a diverse box car fleet, the visual difference between the Plate B FMC 5077 and the taller cars adds important variety. I'm sorry, but the "3 Foot Rule" is rapidly becoming an excuse for complaining that a manufacturer didn't produce a model of someone's favorite prototype at the top of their personal wish list. If we lived by the 3 Foot Rule, we wouldn't have both PS 4740 and PS 4750 covered hopper models, Phase I and II GP40-2s, early, mid, and late production SD40-2s, or F3s / F7s / F9s. It would be pointless for manufacturers to even offer different prototype variations, such as correct horns or plows on RTR diesels. All those expectations that everyone has these days suddenly go out the window when a model is introduced that they're not interested in. Dave |
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Post by bdhicks on Aug 5, 2012 9:52:30 GMT -8
The important thing is that none of the announcements make any of my in-progress kitbashes obsolete.
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Post by mlehman on Aug 5, 2012 10:57:02 GMT -8
The important thing is that none of the announcements make any of my in-progress kitbashes obsolete. Good to see someone take a positive attitude about not getting EXACTLY what they want RTR and for $4.95! Notice how after people gripe about what Atlas, Athearn, ExactRail, etc aren't doing to their satisfaction, they almost never say, "Well, I'm just going to build it myself." |
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Post by riogrande on Aug 5, 2012 11:36:51 GMT -8
Mike, I can't complain myself. I'm perfectly happy with what has been released in the past 3-5 years and if nothing new is released for the next year, I will still have things I am catching up on from ExactRail, Altas, Athearn, and so on.
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Post by curtmc on Aug 5, 2012 15:20:17 GMT -8
I'm sorry, but the "3 Foot Rule" is rapidly becoming an excuse for complaining that a manufacturer didn't produce a model of someone's favorite prototype... Dave ... while you have the 2% true rivet counting detailers bellyaching and wanting $35 or more replacements for every single car that hasn't been done perfectly so far. Dave, As for the Tangent PS4740 and PS4750 you mentioned... Although I'm sure some few wanted them and will buy them, they are a wasted effort in my opinion. Like many I would have preferred them to do another fantastic model that nobody else had done yet in RTR form (like Tangent did on the PS4000, and as BLMA does)... And Dave, isn't the Athearn "Railbox" style car a plate B sized car? (Oh, I see you tried to dismiss it by using the word "quality") I dare say everybody (okay, maybe everybody except you so I'll change that to MOST) has some of those running around to be visually different than the plate C boxcars... And aren't the Atlas Precision boxcars plate B cars? Yes they are. I guess you forgot about those too... Atlas sales of the Precision 50' boxcars were poor (thus multiple reruns to try to make the money back) and they were half the price of the new cars... (And those Atlas Precision boxcars I bought I got for less than $10 each) So in my opinion the LAST thing we need on the HO market is another common plate B or plate C single center door boxcar trying to be sold for $35 or more because there are so many modelers who simply refuse to pay more than $20 for any common boxcar (and some won't pay $10)... Heck, I've even seen the E-Rail waffle-side Southerns go for less than $10 in auctions... |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 5, 2012 15:43:32 GMT -8
I've already ordered several of those unnecessary Atlas 5077's. I am especially looking forward to running them next to the plate C cars.
I felt the Atlas Precision boxes were crude, and that was back when they were introduced. That had an effect on sales in the very immediate neighborhood.
Are the Athearn "Railboxes" "a foot too wide"? I lose track of that one--I know some of their boxes are and some aren't. Mostly the MDC FMC's, I think.
I expect to be selling off most or all of my foot-too-wides at a substantial discount (I may keep some for weathering practice). If that kind of thing doesn't bother you, be sure to visit the Berkeley Hardward swap meet next October and buy them. Or try to convince me I should keep them. I'm a reasonable guy.
And for those of you who think the Atlas articulated cars are too light, keep in mind they weigh the same as the Intermountain ones. Should you also have some of them.
Ed
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for the new trailer they have coming even though for my time frame they will be used as storage trailers around buildings and factories. The MOW trucks look promising but the question will be how they run 
