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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2015 7:39:36 GMT -8
Nice layout...I like the long run...and the turnouts look very nice!!! (Fast Tracks?)...A lot of my friends are now using them...but I haven't spent the cash on the templates yet.
Very nicely done video!
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Post by ambluco on Dec 25, 2015 7:46:59 GMT -8
It used to be IE was required to use many websites. Most places have moved beyond that and support for IE, unless the very latest, is gone. Not supporting IE is not a sign of a dying business.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2015 9:01:30 GMT -8
It used to be IE was required to use many websites. Most places have moved beyond that and support for IE, unless the very latest, is gone. Not supporting IE is not a sign of a dying business. It's a sign of a business that doesn't care, or perhaps more importantly doesn't have the resources to care. IE and Edge still has between 10% and 24% of the market (depending on who you believe). Using a technology for something as basic as logging in, that's incompatible with that many users, is just incompetent -- Especially considering it doesn't work on a fully patched Window 10 system. |
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Post by davidmbedard on Dec 25, 2015 10:30:08 GMT -8
Nice layout...I like the long run...and the turnouts look very nice!!! (Fast Tracks?)...A lot of my friends are now using them...but I haven't spent the cash on the templates yet. Very nicely done video! Yes the turnouts are Fasttracks. The in-pavement turnouts are single point girder rail. |
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Post by ambluco on Dec 25, 2015 13:03:52 GMT -8
It used to be IE was required to use many websites. Most places have moved beyond that and support for IE, unless the very latest, is gone. Not supporting IE is not a sign of a dying business. It's a sign of a business that doesn't care, or perhaps more importantly doesn't have the resources to care. IE and Edge still has between 10% and 24% of the market (depending on who you believe). Using a technology for something as basic as logging in, that's incompatible with that many users, is just incompetent -- Especially considering it doesn't work on a fully patched Window 10 system. So you are using the latest. You never specified in your earlier post. I use IE on win 10 on my work laptop with no issues at Trains/Model Railroader. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2015 15:10:58 GMT -8
It's a sign of a business that doesn't care, or perhaps more importantly doesn't have the resources to care. IE and Edge still has between 10% and 24% of the market (depending on who you believe). Using a technology for something as basic as logging in, that's incompatible with that many users, is just incompetent -- Especially considering it doesn't work on a fully patched Window 10 system. So you are using the latest. You never specified in your earlier post. I use IE on win 10 on my work laptop with no issues at Trains/Model Railroader. Whenever I try, I get a cross domain scripting error. |
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Post by talltim on Dec 25, 2015 15:11:53 GMT -8
What puzzles me most is the random length of the ban
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Post by davidmbedard on Dec 25, 2015 15:14:21 GMT -8
What puzzles me most is the random length of the ban I suppose it's a bit optimistic that MR feels that their enterprise will last that long.... |
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Post by talltim on Dec 25, 2015 15:17:40 GMT -8
What puzzles me most is the random length of the ban I suppose it's a bit optimistic that MR feels that their enterprise will last that long.... Or you, come to that! |
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Post by davidmbedard on Dec 25, 2015 16:36:38 GMT -8
I'll be around for sure......at least that is the plan.
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Post by tankcarsrule on Dec 25, 2015 18:31:26 GMT -8
Nobody knows how long they'll be around.
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Post by roadkill on Dec 25, 2015 18:44:39 GMT -8
I've never wasted a moment of my time on the MR forums, and if I did I'm damn sure I'd be kicked out in a flash. they don't like opinionated a******s like me at that place. Heck, some here don't like me, and I'm more than OK with that.
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Post by mlehman on Dec 25, 2015 19:56:32 GMT -8
 I'm kind if glad the internet isn't one big free for all. It's not like there's any shortage of electrons. If some places are a little more filtered for whatever reason, nothing to discount MR's right to run things by the rules there. Same here. Two entirely different user experiences, but both worthwhile to me. Obviously YMMV.
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Post by Christian on Dec 26, 2015 2:01:43 GMT -8
What puzzles me most is the random length of the ban |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2015 7:19:04 GMT -8
Can't say I like the MR forums. It seems like you can't even have a good discussion on there without it being shut down. I've seen very tame threads get locked because "We don't like the direction this is going" even though there was no flaming or trolling. I feel like this place and MRH are better options as both sites tend to let the discussion go on a bit to see where it leads.
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Post by calzephyr on Dec 26, 2015 8:10:01 GMT -8
At the very least, the ban was not permanent!!! There is hope, but the ban might outlive MR.
Larry
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Dec 26, 2015 8:17:03 GMT -8
FYI folks, "Trains.com" is a contractor hired by Kalmbach. IOW, the people that run the forums & manage the website are not Kalmbach employees (or at least they weren't back when they took over back in 2001 or 2002). Back in the bad old days when Kalmbach controlled their website directly, the forums for MR and the rest were really the wild West. It was like rec.models.railroad but far, far worse. Newsgroups like r.m.r were uncensored and unmoderated, but at least access was somewhat limited to those knowledgeable about the internet enough to find it. Trains.com & ModelRailroader.com really brought out the crazies back then because people could just type in the html link and go there. There was no one minding the store, as it were, and the forums became pretty intense (they made the old Atlas Forum seem tame by comparison).
The point is that some of this over-reaction by today's "Trains.com" is a result of this bad history. I think the powers that be are so determined that they not return to those days that any perceived infractions are dealt with harshly.
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Post by mlehman on Dec 26, 2015 8:53:56 GMT -8
Paul,
I suspect that the Forums at MR are managed internally by Kalmbach now. Steve Otte is a MR associate editor, listed with Cody and Eric in the masthead as same, writes for the magazine itself, and is in the image roll at the top of the forum banner head. Contractors usually do not grace the formal list of who's who at a magazine.
I think the past as prologue to the present is a good point here. Even back when I joined in 2003, it still tended to be the Wild, Wild West. I've never been that interested in all that drama in my hobby life, get enough in real life, so it took a few years before I became a regular there as things settled down. That's one reason why I joined the Atlas Forum to begin with.
Obviously, some folks want lots of drama in their forum experience. There are places that specialize in that. Here is a happy medium as far as I'm concerned, but it's also a place where there is no significant history of disruptive behavior (in part because of a well-thought out and consistently enforced posting policy of its own.) Our host is also not trying to run a magazine that needs to sell X number of copies every month. I suspect aversion to drawing offense from the silent majority who only read the magazine (and pay for it) and forums without actively participating is, besides the checkered history of forum behavior, what is behind policy at MR.
That said, I've seen plenty of stuff that was obviously headed the wrong direction get thrown up -- and then taken down. Why obviously? Because I bothered reading the forum policy. There are people who want to make a point of the internet being a free-for-all, but it is only to the extent that policy is policy. Then there are the unfiltered people in life who don't even think that far ahead and just are what they are -- and still obviously problematic re forum policy.
Having spent more than a decade myself moderating (and making policy) on a very contentious at times website, intentionally so I might add, there are still rules and policy. For the most part what I've seen at the MR forums reflects their policy, really no surprises there. For those who might not find that to their tastes, then yeah, it might seem constraining. But it's a standard that seems to work for MR and its their forum. NOTHING prevents anyone from starting their own forum on the internet and making their own policies, so it's a bit disingenuous to argue that MR done you wrong and stepped all over your opinions when they're pretty clear-cut about what's what. I've lost an acquaintance or two there because of that, but in every case, it was something you could see coming if you knew what MR's policy was. There's something to be said for consistency when your job is managing such things and Steve has pretty much done that. YMMV
I should add that none of this speaks to David's concerns specifically. Sometimes it pays to remember the Japanese proverb that "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down," so caution in stretching the limits where they exist is something to consider. I'm not going to take sides in that.
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Post by jaygee on Dec 26, 2015 9:18:59 GMT -8
I'd be banned for thinking about showing up ! Especially if the moderator is something other than an EMDieselover !
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Post by atsfan on Dec 26, 2015 9:26:13 GMT -8
I have never been on the MR forums. Looked at them once but there were too many categories and polls and surveys.
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Post by Weed Weasel on Dec 26, 2015 11:15:52 GMT -8
Kalmbach really has no sense of humor. When I complained about the new NMRA logo they locked the thread within a few hours and removed the post. They didn't think my adjustment was funny. 
The Weed Wiesel
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Post by TBird1958 on Dec 26, 2015 11:52:20 GMT -8
Very nice layout (I'm only starting on some benchwork as my time allows) and I recall you posting a beautiful scratch built station - Welcome!
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Post by mlehman on Dec 26, 2015 13:47:34 GMT -8
Kalmbach really has no sense of humor. When I complained about the new NMRA logo they locked the thread within a few hours and removed the post. They didn't think my adjustment was funny...
And you were expecting that to stay up? srsly? Obviously, you must've dispensed with reading their policy, too, or just didn't worry about it. Not sure why you should hold their "lack of humor" against them when it's rather obvious you're poking a stick in the lion's cage. |
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Post by roadkill on Dec 26, 2015 15:34:03 GMT -8
Kalmbach really has no sense of humor. When I complained about the new NMRA logo they locked the thread within a few hours and removed the post. They didn't think my adjustment was funny...
And you were expecting that to stay up? srsly? Obviously, you must've dispensed with reading their policy, too, or just didn't worry about it. Not sure why you should hold their "lack of humor" against them when it's rather obvious you're poking a stick in the lion's cage. I know this poster very well, and yes, he likes poking a stick into the lion's cage  . And IMHO that's something that needs to be done from time to time. |
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Post by mlehman on Dec 26, 2015 19:28:34 GMT -8
...And IMHO that's something that needs to be done from time to time. Having poked the lion, stuck my arm in and tickled behind his ears, and even crawled into the lion cage on various weighty matters as an adult, I guess I find the whole idea of doing so for juvenile reasons rather pointless. But maybe some folks lead more boring lives than I have and this is the only way they can think of finding the adrenaline button? Maybe that explains the need for the 4th grade humor? But when even Playboy is moving on from that, it does rather make you look like you're living in the past. In all seriousness, if you have a beef with either MR or the NMRA and you sincerely want to make change happen, you're going to have to aim a little higher than that. |
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Post by Weed Weasel on Dec 27, 2015 3:20:54 GMT -8
I should have put that more in context. The whole post that contained that logo was put up on the day the NMRA announced the new logo. The new logo was created by one person with a couple of officers approving it. There was no notice of the change or chance for any of the membership to comment or submit option. It took away a logo that represented the oginazation with a logo that was identifiable as a railroad symbol. The wheel and coupler. This was just my way of voicing my disapproval with the logo change and the process used to make the change.
Weed Weasel
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Post by mlehman on Dec 27, 2015 8:04:43 GMT -8
Weed Weasel,
I assumed that was the context.
Nothing wrong with a well-reasoned argument against things. But I think it's safe to say your perception of the way the change was made isn't widely shared. AFAIK, the change was handled in accordance with the way things operate at the NMRA, at least I've not heard any complaints about process, only dissatisfaction from a few over the result. AFAIK, there was no requirement that the change be submitted to a vote by the membership, but if you want to pick out chapter and verse in the bylaws to prove me wrong (versus it simply being your opinion that's so) I'm willing to consider your argument further.
That said, MR is a magazine that's intended to be read by kids as well as adults. Regardless of your justification, I don't see how you'd think they were going to tolerate sexual innuendo, whatever the subject matter, even if poor taste and clouded argument were beside the point.
Which goes back to my argument that there are times and places on the internet for what you feel you had to say. Putting it up at MR is about the functional equivalent of graffiting the side of a boxcar with your opinion -- and that's also out of bounds over there. If you're going to spray up a boxcar because you don't like what the owner did, at least get the reporting marks right. If nothing else, if that's your main mode of protest, MR is not the reporting mark you want. You want the car that is marked NMRA.
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Post by atsfan on Dec 27, 2015 8:16:59 GMT -8
Weed Weasel, I assumed that was the context. Nothing wrong with a well-reasoned argument against things. But I think it's safe to say your perception of the way the change was made isn't widely shared. AFAIK, the change was handled in accordance with the way things operate at the NMRA, at least I've not heard any complaints about process, only dissatisfaction from a few over the result. AFAIK, there was no requirement that the change be submitted to a vote by the membership, but if you want to pick out chapter and verse in the bylaws to prove me wrong (versus it simply being your opinion that's so) I'm willing to consider your argument further. That said, MR is a magazine that's intended to be read by kids as well as adults. Regardless of your justification, I don't see how you'd think they were going to tolerate sexual innuendo, whatever the subject matter, even if poor taste and clouded argument were beside the point. Which goes back to my argument that there are times and places on the internet for what you feel you had to say. Putting it up at MR is about the functional equivalent of graffiting the side of a boxcar with your opinion -- and that's also out of bounds over there. Good reasons not to belong to the NMRA, or the MR forums. |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Dec 27, 2015 10:16:25 GMT -8
Mike,
I was posting on that NMRA thread that WW posted that modified logo on.
The point was being made that the new NMRA logo was not only poor, but also inappropriate because it looked like a breast (someone on the forum said his wife thought that, too). After a bunch of replies that said, "No, it doesn't," or "I don't see that," WW created that graphic using nothing but the NMRA logo mirrored as shown and posted it. MR then deleted the image because it was "inappropriate". Which was, of course, the whole point!
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Post by Weed Weasel on Dec 27, 2015 10:41:55 GMT -8
You've made my point, people see things in different ways. The Person from the NMRA said his logo should be looked at as a rail on wheel. I thought my redo looked more like two wheels on the rail. A freight car truck. Some people see something else. Time for comment should have been taken. A change of something this important should have not been made by a few people. Only on artist was contacted to submit a design. I have heard from others that could not even see the wheel on rail.
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. And IMHO that's something that needs to be done from time to time.