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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2019 6:09:04 GMT -8
I bought one of the cars on ebay at fifty bucks, and although I'd loved to have paid twenty from MB Klein, I missed out again on these both direct from Walthers (I couldn't figure out the ordering system) and from every other online shop I buy from. Fifty is high for these cars, but cheaper than 3D printing a flatcar (been there, done that) and much easier than scratchbuilding one (also been there, done that). It's a matter of supply and demand. I'd rather Walthers make the extra money on the demand for these cars instead of resellers, but that's what placing a conservative bet gets them. They sold all they made and met their production and sales goals. If their goals had been higher they would have made more money, but the risk was greater to do that. As far as the demand for these cars is concerned, if you wonder what service they performed or when and where they were used, you're probably not the person willing to spend double their face value for them. I've been looking forward to them since the samples were first shown in 2017. Once I held one in my hand I knew I'd have to get a few of them. It's easy to balk at such a high price if it's not a car you want. These cars may share bones with the other flat cars from this run, but these are the superior model of the group. I don't have any problem cutting off molded on grabs or other details, either. There are tons of models out there that only exist in a crappy toy-like version from AHM, Tyco, Bachmann, etc. and several more that exist only as "Operator" or "Mainline" or "Proto1000" -esque versions that are dimensionally accurate but not Tangent or Genesis level cars. You can either go the route of Bobby Pitts or Paul Ellis and build your own Tangent level car from one of those toy models, or you can wait for a better model. When I was younger I'd simply wait or scratchbuild. But anymore I say life is short. I agree 100%. Walther's should have made more of them. But I think that shows their R & D people lack perception of what actual demand versus their other products, IMO. I put in a pre-order for their G85 TOFC cars. I ordered the painted cars; I'll shave the offending grabs off and three cars should suffice. But I'd rather pay list if I can...than get shut out and thrown to the masses. I don't regret overpaying for the ExactRail center beam, either. But, it's a much higher-detailed car and will eventually be re-released...with the pricing in that general area...If I had to guess. |
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Post by csx3305 on Jul 8, 2019 6:28:25 GMT -8
I’d have little pause shelling out 60 bux for an Exactrail Centerbeam, but not this molded-grab Walthers flat made out of unobtainium.
I’d love to have a couple of these Walthers flats, but not gonna pay over list for them. I refuse to bankroll the greed of speculators. They’ve absolutely destroyed the vintage guitar market, another hobby I used to enjoy, and I can see the beginnings of that trend coming to model railroading.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2019 6:43:25 GMT -8
Can’t argue there, either. All of my “vintage “guitars are made in Mexico and I add SSL-1s to them.
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Post by csx3305 on Jul 8, 2019 7:06:23 GMT -8
I’m liking the new Gretsch Electromatics ever since Fender took over the brand, build my own amps from kits, and I never gig with a guitar worth over 1500 anymore. But since we’re off topic, I’ll just leave it at that, and anybody interested in my rants about such can PM me.
Has Walthers announced a third run of yellow 60’ flats yet?
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Post by sd40dash2 on Jul 8, 2019 8:13:45 GMT -8
Has Walthers announced a third run of yellow 60’ flats yet?
I searched their website high and low and could not find any production schedule or list of upcoming releases. You can go into any product page (for example Walthers Mainline) and see advanced reservations per product & road name, but when I did so it revealed something like 3000 products. Lots of scrolling and 'next page' clicks required. The site doesn't seem to have anything beyond that and the monthly newsletters, in terms of clues about upcoming releases. There are some 'new product express' videos that sometimes appear on youtube but the scope tends to be pretty broad.
As an aside, I think the best online schedule format is that shown on the Rapido site. It all fits on one page, is manually and consistently updated at least 1-2x per month and gives all deadlines and ETA dates for pipeline products.
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Post by TBird1958 on Jul 8, 2019 9:26:02 GMT -8
I’m liking the new Gretsch Electromatics ever since Fender took over the brand, build my own amps from kits, and I never gig with a guitar worth over 1500 anymore. But since we’re off topic, I’ll just leave it at that, and anybody interested in my rants about such can PM me. Has Walthers announced a third run of yellow 60’ flats yet?
I regularly gig my '70s Thunderbirds, albeit carefully and not at dive bars!
So we don't go to far off point, I still have yet to receive any of the three I ordered from two different shops, I checked up on the orders on 7/5 and was told they were "processing" at Walthers, has anyone checked their stock?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 8, 2019 10:08:07 GMT -8
ExactRail center beam...and will eventually be re-released... Maybe, maybe not. Exactrail had some real problems with them. The sheet metal part of the center beam is made of, yes, sheet metal. It's not glued in (I think) but captured in an assortment of slots and notches--different expansion rates, and all that. A goodly number of them had the sheet metal pop out of the slots. Somehow. I recall that some could get popped back in easily, some really not easily. I returned a couple or three of my order with that problem--they were replaced. I really like the design, because the sheet metal looks like sheet metal, not a 6" thick piece of cast concrete. The design was risky (noted after the fact). And daring. And pretty brilliant. Based on this, I expect enthusiasm at Exactrail to revisit these cars is very low. I LOVE mine. By the way. Ed |
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Post by riogrande on Jul 8, 2019 10:45:49 GMT -8
I have 4 or 5 of the ExactRail Center-beams and they are nicely detailed models. I do recall some of them had assembly fit issues and some also had bowed side sills. I went through 4 or 5 trying to get a BN with a straight side sill.
Both Blaine and Chris have stated they eventually plan to run them again - only time will tell.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2019 14:23:34 GMT -8
ebay update: The auction for the first-run VTTX is currently up to $74US. The three second-run BIN auctions all sold at $49.95US and the seller relisted one at $59.95US. I'm guessing the latter seller is the one who cleaned out MBK. Watched a VTTX flat end last night. It had 9 bidders. 7 ended bidding at $40, the other 2 kept going till the end...….Final price....$112.50. Never would I even consider wasting money like that. Full boat is the max I even care to pay. Greg |
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Post by milgentrains on Jul 9, 2019 3:15:52 GMT -8
ebay update: The auction for the first-run VTTX is currently up to $74US. The three second-run BIN auctions all sold at $49.95US and the seller relisted one at $59.95US. I'm guessing the latter seller is the one who cleaned out MBK. Watched a VTTX flat end last night. It had 9 bidders. 7 ended bidding at $40, the other 2 kept going till the end...….Final price....$112.50. Never would I even consider wasting money like that. Full boat is the max I even care to pay. Greg I've watched some auctions for stuff I wanted end like that VTTX car. I just shake my head and move on. |
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Post by fr8kar on Jul 9, 2019 8:22:39 GMT -8
The VTTX car I got in the mail yesterday was fine at first glance other than one of the knuckle springs was loose in the box.
Once I put the car on the track I discovered it was less than free-rolling. The wheelsets have plastic axle ends like Kadee or P2K wheels and a couple of the axles had slightly bent ends which gave them some rolling resistance. A spin of the Reboxx tool in the truck parts improved things a bit, but it didn't make them roll perfectly. So I just replaced them with Kato Barber S-2 trucks which were a drop-in fit and a big improvement in looks. I sanded down the screw boss on the bolster a wee bit to allow one of the trucks to be tightened without and rocking. The couplers didn't matter since they got replaced with Sergent Type E.
I haven't decided if I'll do a full repaint or just change the logos to backdate the car to the TrailerTrain era. Before I do that I'll try to thin out the container shoes since containers from Athearn, A-line and even some Walthers are a tight fit. I'll also replace the eight grabs with 0.008" wire. All in all, a good-looking car and I'm glad I got one. I'd like at least two more, but I'm content to wait now.
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Post by cp6027 on Jul 9, 2019 8:49:49 GMT -8
The VTTX car I got in the mail yesterday was fine at first glance other than one of the knuckle springs was loose in the box. Once I put the car on the track I discovered it was less than free-rolling. The wheelsets have plastic axle ends like Kadee or P2K wheels and a couple of the axles had slightly bent ends which gave them some rolling resistance. A spin of the Reboxx tool in the truck parts improved things a bit, but it didn't make them roll perfectly. So I just replaced them with Kato Barber S-2 trucks which were a drop-in fit and a big improvement in looks. I sanded down the screw boss on the bolster a wee bit to allow one of the trucks to be tightened without and rocking. The couplers didn't matter since they got replaced with Sergent Type E. I haven't decided if I'll do a full repaint or just change the logos to backdate the car to the TrailerTrain era. Before I do that I'll try to thin out the container shoes since containers from Athearn, A-line and even some Walthers are a tight fit. I'll also replace the eight grabs with 0.008" wire. All in all, a good-looking car and I'm glad I got one. I'd like at least two more, but I'm content to wait now. Thanks for this report! I noticed that my one recently-arrived VTTX car from the second run is considerably less free-rolling than my two VTTX cars from the first run (which roll really well). Glad I am not crazy but sad to hear it may be a systemic issue. I also noticed that many containers are a tight fit! Regarding the demand for this car... personally I like the VTTX cars because at 60 feet they are a great "layout-friendly" compromise in length between the 89' container cars that don't look great on many layout curves, and using a 40 or 50-foot flat to haul one 40' or two 20' containers which to me can look rather contrived or toy-like even if there are correct prototypes. Since my modelled era is just before the arrival of double stacks, these are also a welcome addition because they provide more single-level intermodal options to run with the spine cars, long flats and front runners. As an aside, I keep hoping somebody will offer the NTTX container-only 5-unit spine car at some point. I have one of the brass kits that was offered about ten years ago but assembly seems like a very daunting task. |
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Post by fr8kar on Jul 9, 2019 8:58:11 GMT -8
You're welcome! Ooh, I'd love one of those, too. Who made this brass kit? |
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Post by cp6027 on Jul 9, 2019 10:21:33 GMT -8
You're welcome! Ooh, I'd love one of those, too. Who made this brass kit? The brass kits for the NTTX container-only 5-unit spine cars were offered by Alan Curtis Models/Andersley Kits out of the UK. I recall having to order it direct through a long gone Andersley Kits website with shipping from the UK. Google suggests that production stopped around 2007-8 when Mr. Curtis retired. If you track down a kit, Microscale has appropriate decals: HO Scale - Trailer Train/TTX - NTTX Container Spine Cars -- Stock# MC-4386 |
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Post by drolsen on Jul 9, 2019 14:40:11 GMT -8
As an aside, I keep hoping somebody will offer the NTTX container-only 5-unit spine car at some point. I have one of the brass kits that was offered about ten years ago but assembly seems like a very daunting task. Ugh, I’m in the same boat. I know it’s a fantastic, highly detailed model, but I’m pretty intimidated by the hours of work that my one kit will entail. Plus I have almost no experience working with brass like that. But it’s a model that I really want to have in my collection, both because it’s interesting and because the line I model only ran single-stacked containers, even in well cars, due to clearance restrictions. Dave |
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Post by drolsen on Jul 10, 2019 7:21:37 GMT -8
to be fair, Jim Eager corrected this statement to a degree in a later post also on the MFCL "so here's hoping that the actual production cars will not duplicate the error" So the question is: can anybody who has the new cars already post some pictures ? I have two brown on order but they have not been received by my german dealer... I did see that yes. I have one coming but hasn't arrived yet so I can't confirm if the production car is as Jim Eager commented or not. Jim, did you receive yours yet? Although no one specifically said, "I received my OTTX cars and they match the incorrect configuration in the Walthers photos," I saw confirmation that at least one person on the MFCL received his and found them to be incorrect. There seem to be a bunch of OTTX cars listed on eBay right now - many more than any other version - which tells me that people are probably trying to dump them. For others on the forum, here are the photos showing the issues with the Walthers OTTX model: 1st run HTTX car, which would look like many OTTX cars with the continuous chain track along the outer edge and the two small sections inset at either end:  Here's a prototype car that I shot, OTTX 91001 (apologies for the fuzzy image):  2nd run OTTX car in TTX yellow - note the wood blocks along the outer edge, instead of the correct chain tracks (brown car appears to be the same):  Here's an MTTX car for comparison - note that the outer wood blocks (painted to match the rest of the simulated wood deck) are identical to those on the OTTX car above, but there are no chain tracks down the middle of the deck:  It looks like Walthers somehow made a hybrid of the two decks, which doesn't match any prototype cars that I can find. That's unfortunate, since they could have just reused the HTTX body, as far as I know, and changed the lettering. I'm wondering if it was an attempt to replicate the as-delivered OTTX cars before the continuous chain tracks were added. Dave |
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Post by riogrande on Jul 10, 2019 8:06:40 GMT -8
Jim, did you receive yours yet? I'm wondering if it was an attempt to replicate the as-delivered OTTX cars before the continuous chain tracks were added. Dave Yes. Haven't taken it out of the box but here is a 1973 fallenflags photo and it appears the continuous chain tracks haven't been added yet:  And a 1968 photo: rr-fallenflags.org/ttx/qttx90407ajs.jpgSo some OTTX appear to have been delivered looking similar to the brown Walthers OTTX model. A quick look at the available photo's indicates most, if not all, conversions to the continuous chain tracks by the late 1970's. I may just keep my one model and say it escaped conversion a few years longer. |
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Post by brakie on Jul 10, 2019 8:22:12 GMT -8
Somebody shelled out 50 doll hairs each for a model with molded-on grabs, just to keep up with the model railroading Jones’ of the Internet? What a maroon. That's about the way I feel when I buy a fifty plus dollar high detail car and its not to keep up with the model railroading Jones or the Smiths of any stripe. The manufacturers makes a beautiful car and like a maroon I buy the fool thing if it fits my needs.  As of now my six Walthers Centerbeams fits my limited transload track needs as does my Atlas (Trainman) 60' flatcars. |
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Post by schroed2 on Jul 10, 2019 9:28:19 GMT -8
So some OTTX appear to have been delivered looking similar to the brown Walthers OTTX model. A quick look at the available photo's indicates most, if not all, conversions to the continuous chain tracks by the late 1970's. still waiting for mine...but sounds like a mathch for 1969 Bernd |
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Post by drolsen on Jul 10, 2019 12:17:24 GMT -8
So some OTTX appear to have been delivered looking similar to the brown Walthers OTTX model. A quick look at the available photo's indicates most, if not all, conversions to the continuous chain tracks by the late 1970's. I may just keep my one model and say it escaped conversion a few years longer. Yeah, like I suggested in my previous post, it's starting to look to me like the deck issue was intentional - they're using the 12" (solid) wooden blocks on the edge of the deck to simulate the intermittent chain tracks on the as-delivered OTTX cars. They painted the wooden blocks to match the color of the car body to make them represent the chain tracks. I guess they decided to skimp out on the additional tooling cost and not design a separate sill for the intermittent chain tracks. Dave |
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Post by sd40dash2 on Jul 15, 2019 20:49:59 GMT -8
Another first run VTTX has just sold on ebay for $61US plus shipping.
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Post by el3672 on Jul 15, 2019 21:17:17 GMT -8
Ok with all the I want it don't want it, Walthers OTTX resent release, so which is the better the Walthers60' OTTX flat? or
the Intermountain model ?. I've got a bunch of auto frame loads to load on a bunch of these cars, who wins?
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Post by SOMECALLMETIM on Jul 16, 2019 0:52:02 GMT -8
The Intermountain 60’ car is a foodie combination of a design with the closest prototype being a TT version. I will have to dig out the information from the MFCL list. Now this doesn’t stop me from still wanting to get a brown TTX one. What to do with the Walthers OTTX car that I ordered... From Jim Eager on the MFCL: "Actually it is a Pullman-built QTTX/OTTX (changed to OTTX quite early as the Q was hard to differentiate). The IM model, with its deep notches near the end of the sills for the sill steps, matches the F60GH cars of 1967-on, but the intermittant outboard chain channels match the earliest QTTX F60BH cars built in 1964, but their sills were notched all the way to the end of the sill. (See QTTX 90092 in the 66 Cyc.) These cars later had sections of channel welded into the gaps at the stake pockets to make them continuous. My photos of later 1965 and 1966-built F60BHs show continuous outboard channels, as do all my photos of F60GHs." Ok with all the I want it don't want it, Walthers OTTX resent release, so which is the better the Walthers60' OTTX flat? or the Intermountain model ?. I've got a bunch of auto frame loads to load on a bunch of these cars, who wins? |
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Post by ChessieFan1978 on Jul 20, 2019 9:46:37 GMT -8
Anyone backdating these cars to the yellow Trailer Train scheme? I'm curious which decals would be the best fit. Microscale 87-670 are drop on replacements.  I just bought Microscale 87-578 for Trailer Train 50’-85’ Flatcars. The TT is enormous. The TT looks big on the 87-670 set too. Are you sure that N-Scale wouldn’t be better for these cars? |
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Post by cannon on Jul 20, 2019 10:07:25 GMT -8
Back in 1998 inspired by an article by Jim Panza in RMC and the introduction of Intermountain’s version of the 60 ft flat I made three versions of the container conversions based on some photos I had taken of the various different versions. I even converted one to a Thrall and changed the wheelbase. These used the Details West container pedestals. The bulkhead containers were scratch built. pbase.com/dh30973/models&page=allDave Hussey |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 20, 2019 10:17:11 GMT -8
I just bought Microscale 87-578 for Trailer Train 50’-85’ Flatcars. The TT is enormous. The TT looks big on the 87-670 set too. Are you sure that N-Scale wouldn’t be better for these cars? From a nice big photo of the prototype, the "TT" should be .125" high and .61" wide, overall. Vertically, it entirely fills the space from the bottom of the stake pockets to the bottom of the side. On the model, there is .10" available to fit the logo. Ed |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 11:26:51 GMT -8
Back in 1998 inspired by an article by Jim Panza in RMC and the introduction of Intermountain’s version of the 60 ft flat I made three versions of the container conversions based on some photos I had taken of the various different versions. I even converted one to a Thrall and changed the wheelbase. These used the Details West container pedestals. The bulkhead containers were scratch built. pbase.com/dh30973/models&page=allDave Hussey Superb modeling, Dave! So, if I wanted to make my two flats into standard TT heavy equipment flats...what do I need to change? |
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Post by drolsen on Aug 16, 2022 7:07:55 GMT -8
For those of you that missed out on them the last time, the latest run of Walthers 60' flats just showed up at M.B. Klein. I ordered three of the VTTX flats because I've always thought they were interesting, and $21.99 is a lot better than what they were going for on eBay! I'm a little disappointed that the HTTX flats have conspicuity stripes, but I ordered two and will try to remove the stripes with the Microsol and tape method.
Dave
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Post by riogrande on Aug 16, 2022 7:19:50 GMT -8
I can't remember now which of the flats were a good match to prototypes, OTTX and MTTX.
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Post by drolsen on Aug 16, 2022 7:39:15 GMT -8
Jim, I'd have to reread this whole thread to refresh myself too, but I think Walthers tooled the correct options to represent both cars. I believe the issue was that they didn't select the proper deck options for a couple of the variations they did in the first run. Or as I described in my post about halfway up the previous page, they may have cheated a little on the OTTX as-delivered model on the first run to save tooling costs. I'm afraid we probably won't know if they're correct until we see models of the production cars from this new release.
Dave
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