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Post by gevohogger on Jul 27, 2020 8:54:28 GMT -8
Is this the car you are talking about used on the Ski Train, which I believe it was. No. I was being sarcastic.
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 27, 2020 8:56:10 GMT -8
All I can figure is some non-modeler developed it because the cars are short and will "look better" on small layouts. Well, it IS Walthers were talking about here.... So, yeah.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 27, 2020 9:11:39 GMT -8
From Wiki: "After 113 years of railway post office operation, the last surviving railway post office running on rails between New York and Washington, D.C. was discontinued on June 30, 1977." Amtrak Phase IV paint started in 1993. Thanks Paul. I don't know much at all about RPO history, thus get sarcastic remarks. I do know enough from researching a few Amtrak trains I am interested in that RPO's didn't appear to ever be used on them. It appears Walthers just paints passenger cars just like they do freight cars and people buy them or not, and some are foobies. D&RGW had RPO's which were shorter than the 85' common passenger car length. I haven't researched the Walthers RPO - would suspect it's former ATSF?
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Post by amtrakfl9 on Jul 27, 2020 10:06:47 GMT -8
D&RGW had RPO's which were shorter than the 85' common passenger car length. I haven't researched the Walthers RPO - would suspect it's former ATSF? It is an ATSF prototype, also correct for a few other roads. No "former" about it as all the RPOs were done away with in 1967 and none made it to Amtrak. Phase IV on single level cars is 1998-2004 era. The car is short, 63' to be exact - I wasn't saying that I don't know if the car is actually physcially short. I meant that I don't know if that's why they decided to foob that car up as slowfreight suggested, since they have done so many of the 85' Amtrak foobies as well.
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Post by slowfreight on Jul 27, 2020 10:06:49 GMT -8
D&RGW had RPO's which were shorter than the 85' common passenger car length. I haven't researched the Walthers RPO - would suspect it's former ATSF? Most straight RPOs were short. The combination RPO-something else cars were sometimes 85'. And yes, the Amtrak one is an ex-ATSF car. I'm right there with AmtrakFL9. We could give Walthers a huge list of 2nd- and 3rd-life paint schemes for the cars it has already tooled, and let it decide which of those it will manufacture profitably by whatever calculus the team uses. But this mad insistence on ignoring easy kills for prototype paint schemes is really just frustrating. All of these models were very nearly stock Walthers cars, but I had to build 'em myself because Walthers never released them.
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Post by amtrakfl9 on Jul 27, 2020 10:15:02 GMT -8
I like that Pine car! I am building a 90s era Lake Shore Limited myself, and originally I wanted to do one of those 2900 series HEP rebuilds that retained the steam underbody but in Phase III. Now I am saving the major build work for a few other cars - the ex Army bag dorm is going to be the challenging part.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 27, 2020 10:38:31 GMT -8
I've seen a baggage car on the old San Francisco Zephyr which had a side sill drop below the baggage doors. I've never seen it in plastic tho. If I can find a photo or link, I"ll post it.
The photo of Pine sleeper looks like a stock Walthers 10-6 sleeper in their Amtrak Phase II scheme. I have some Walthers 10-6 sleepers that I believe have that window arrangement.
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Post by slowfreight on Jul 27, 2020 10:45:55 GMT -8
I've seen a baggage car on the old San Francisco Zephyr which had a side sill drop below the baggage doors. I've never seen it in plastic tho. If I can find a photo or link, I"ll post it. The photo of Pine sleeper looks like a stock Walthers 10-6 sleeper in their Amtrak Phase II scheme. I have some Walthers 10-6 sleepers that I believe have that window arrangement. Walthers did the ATSF baggage in Phase I double-arrow scheme with skirting. The one you saw may have been an oddity or non-ATSF because my research only turned up deskirted cars with the pass-through HEP wiring. For a while, they kept pass-through steam heat and HEP. The Pines sleepers look almost the same as a standard Budd 10-6. But the doors are very distinctive, and a plated deluxe version from Walthers made an ideal starting point. For those who are up to working with Alclad, Walthers had a non-plated version in Phase II colors but the deluxe plated one made such a nice starting point, especially when on clearance at M.B. Klein. That's the rub with these passenger cars. I bough almost all of mine on clearance when they could be found. It's like Walthers would do better at protecting the street price with smaller runs three years apart but the production economies make that hard to pull off.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 27, 2020 11:02:12 GMT -8
Walthers did the ATSF baggage in Phase I double-arrow scheme with skirting. The one you saw may have been an oddity.... I have the ex-ATSF Budd baggage offered by Walthers in the Phase I paint (pointless arrow) which has skirts. Those did appear in that configuration on the San Francisco Zephyr, but more often seen were the same cars in Phase 1 with the skirts removed. MUCH more common. Unfortunately it appears Walthers never did that baggage in that scheme. As for the baggage with the skirting dropping below the doors, you can see one here at time stamp 7.35 as the train passes the camera. BTW, the combine that comes after the baggage I believe is an ex-Army combine from what I've been told. The Pines sleepers look almost the same as a standard Budd 10-6. But the doors are very distinctive, and a plated deluxe version from Walthers made an ideal starting point. When I got word that Athearn was going to produce the SDP40F's with the ice breakers, I began hunting down Phase 1 and Phase 2 Amtrak heritage passenger cars, many I was able to get between $12 and $24 dollars, which ain't bad; a few of them I paid in the $30-$45 range. I'm seeing fewer now.
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Post by amtrakfl9 on Jul 27, 2020 11:16:07 GMT -8
That baggage car looks like one of those ex-NYC cars Amtrak had back then. And the combine is indeed an ex-Army baggage dorm, rebuilt by Amtrak from USAX hospital cars. Several were upgraded with HEP and ran until the mid 90s on eastern trains. That is the car I was referring to in my post about the Lake Shore.
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Post by slowfreight on Jul 27, 2020 11:22:44 GMT -8
As for the baggage with the skirting dropping below the doors, you can see one here at time stamp 7.35 as the train passes the camera. BTW, the combine that comes after the baggage I believe is an ex-Army combine from what I've been told. Totally not an ATSF car. That is a distinctive sill. Per the late Jim LaBoda's website, preserved at passcarphotos.rypn.org, it looks like this may be a winner: rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1670916Ex-PC Exx-NYC ACF baggage
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Post by amtrakfl9 on Jul 27, 2020 11:26:12 GMT -8
As for the baggage with the skirting dropping below the doors, you can see one here at time stamp 7.35 as the train passes the camera. BTW, the combine that comes after the baggage I believe is an ex-Army combine from what I've been told. Totally not an ATSF car. That is a distinctive sill. Per the late Jim LaBoda's website, preserved at passcarphotos.rypn.org, it looks like this may be a winner: rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1670916Ex-PC Exx-NYC ACF baggage Just said that
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Post by riogrande on Jul 27, 2020 11:51:38 GMT -8
As for the baggage with the skirting dropping below the doors, you can see one here at time stamp 7.35 as the train passes the camera. BTW, the combine that comes after the baggage I believe is an ex-Army combine from what I've been told. Totally not an ATSF car. That is a distinctive sill. Agree, not from ATSF. The car in the rrpicturesachive has sill pieces below the baggage doors but the one on the SFZ slope down and back up. Not 90 degree angle edge as in the photo there. I don't think that one is a match.
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Post by slowfreight on Jul 27, 2020 12:03:57 GMT -8
The car in the rrpicturesachive has sill pieces below the baggage doors but the one on the SFZ slope down and back up. Not 90 degree angle edge as in the photo there. I don't think that one is a match. Dang. Back to digging through his pages, I guess. Would expect Marty Bernard caught a photo of it sometime at Roosevelt Ave....
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Post by riogrande on Jul 27, 2020 12:16:03 GMT -8
Ok, I think I found the baggage car series numbers with the sills that drop down below the baggage doors. Series 1180-1199. Is there a register we can look up those numbers?
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Post by jonklein611 on Jul 27, 2020 12:18:55 GMT -8
Ok, I think I found the baggage car series numbers with the sills that drop down below the baggage doors. Series 1180-1199. Is there a register we can look up those numbers?
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 27, 2020 12:42:20 GMT -8
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Post by riogrande on Jul 27, 2020 12:49:24 GMT -8
Ah, so those are former Penn Central baggages? Which means former PRR or NYC baggages?
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 27, 2020 12:51:48 GMT -8
Ah, so those are former Penn Central baggages? Which means former PRR or NYC baggages? NYC. Don't think Pennsy had anything like that.
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Post by trainguy99 on Jul 28, 2020 5:36:54 GMT -8
If you have access to the NYC color guide, page 7 appears to have the answer. NYC had 100 ACF baggage cars, nos 9100-9199. The car at the bottom of the page (9152) is in two-tone gray with straight sills. The car at the top of the page (9110) is in solid gray and has stepped sills (and new doors). It appears that plates were welded onto the car, but the book doesn't say whether that was for the new doors or for another reason.
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Post by fmilhaupt on Jul 28, 2020 15:14:39 GMT -8
Ah. The 9100s-- the series of NYC baggage cars that went on to become the core of the American Freedom Train.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 28, 2020 15:32:46 GMT -8
I pulled up an image of one of the Freedom Trains converted cars and it does have the same drop side sill (below the position of the baggage doors) same as the Amtrak baggage cars featured on the San Francisco Zephyr. I suppose nothing like that is available in plastic, or even brass?
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Post by bridge2nowhere on Jul 28, 2020 16:10:10 GMT -8
Ah. The 9100s-- the series of NYC baggage cars that went on to become the core of the American Freedom Train. And Lionel made HO models of the AFT cars. It would be a bit of work to convert one back to a baggage car, let alone up to current standards.
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Post by fmilhaupt on Jul 28, 2020 17:49:46 GMT -8
I looked at doing a proper AFT once. I came to the conclusion that I'd do better by cutting my own sides and using a Train Station Products ACF core kit for the display, storage/laundry and bunk/generator cars. I shelved the project as other projects were more useful to me.
Using the same technique to make the original NYC cars they were built from would be pretty simple and the decals considerably less expensive.
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Post by slowfreight on Sept 16, 2020 14:05:12 GMT -8
OK...resurrecting this thread... I stumble across this photo www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2166038and it reminds me that Walthers was going to do the SOU E8's in exactly the version I'd need to split my P30CHs on a Panama Limited. Only to find that the project has been cancelled! I could have even justified an NJDoT patch on one of these, but not to be. Things Walthers announces that interest me are consistently being cancelled, which makes it hard to feed the addiction. Instead, they go back to the same tired old well of ATSF. Rant finished.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 16, 2020 14:48:22 GMT -8
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Post by gevohogger on Sept 16, 2020 15:25:01 GMT -8
...and it reminds me that Walthers was going to do the SOU E8's in exactly the version I'd need to split my P30CHs on a Panama Limited. Yes, now that you mention it, we REALLY DO need a good model of the P30CH!!
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Post by lvrr325 on Nov 9, 2021 18:44:04 GMT -8
Somewhere in here I read "Santa Fe sells" and it does, I had people over last weekend wanting to buy circa-1980 Tyco junk in Santa Fe colors.
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Post by rounder on Nov 9, 2021 19:11:08 GMT -8
What’s the name? The “Zinc Pest Limited”?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 10, 2021 6:40:31 GMT -8
So far, Walthers hasn't used cast zinc alloy underframes for their passenger cars.
They can't have zinc pest problems like we're seeing with the flush-deck cars.
Ed
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