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Post by mdvle on Apr 17, 2021 19:27:40 GMT -8
I am slightly shocked by the comment that there are 10 rivet counter transition era freight cars coming from MTH designs. What I have seen of MTH HO scale freight cars I only thought one would be close enough to a rivet counter level of detail.
I'm not familiar enough with how things work to know, but could it be MTH made adjustments from the designs to meet budgets/price expectations in the tooling costs / manufacturing costs? Taking features and dropping them if they increased the part count too much?
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Post by atsfgp7u on Apr 17, 2021 21:00:28 GMT -8
I model the Santa Fe mainline from Wellington to Amarillo in 1985 - with significant selective compression. Carbon black cars are and were pretty common on that trackage, with a Cabot plant at Pampa/Kingsmill adjacent to the mainline and more plants - JM Huber, Phillips, Sid Richardson etc, located in Borger, served by a branch off the Santa Fe mainline at Panhandle, which is NE of Amarillo (and Kingsmill is a few miles NE of Panhandle).
So I need lots of carbon black cars.
I have a bunch of Scaletrains cars and the Rail Shops kits with some extra sides and ends so I can do the raised roof conversions that were still in service in the mid 80s. I also have a bunch of Atlas ACF cylindricals and some ACF 4650s, and decals and resin cast outlets from the late Wade Griffis - Black Stump Deals. The 4589cft ACF carbon black cars are 36" shorter than the 4650 ACF cars and have 33" wheelsets on 5'8" wheelbase 70ton trucks plus more and smaller inlet hatches, so I have a few mods to make to the Atlas or Intermountain 4650s.
Carbon Black cars are typically fitted with numerous small round inlet hatchs, combined with a larger manhole hatch for each hopper to allow access for a person to inspect and/or clean the inside of the car, plus fluidizing butterfly outlets of 16" to 20" dia, that look like the throttle disc or butterfly valve at the bottom of a carburetor throat.
cheers
Dave
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djh4d
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Post by djh4d on Apr 18, 2021 0:33:58 GMT -8
GP30's, Shane's favorite locomotive? He's modeling NS & CSX in Appalachia in the 80's & 90's? Hmmmm, CSX GP30 Road Slugs..... Probably not. We can't even get a YN2 Rivet Counter SD40-2. But, LETS MAKE ANOTHER GEVO!
-Dave
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Post by fr8kar on Apr 18, 2021 1:37:32 GMT -8
So I need lots of carbon black cars. There's another one out there! I'm not alone! |
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Post by lars on Apr 18, 2021 3:14:57 GMT -8
Unfortunately their poor sales record won’t work too well in your favor.
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Post by mdvle on Apr 18, 2021 5:58:36 GMT -8
GP30's, Shane's favorite locomotive? He's modeling NS & CSX in Appalachia in the 80's & 90's? Hmmmm, CSX GP30 Road Slugs..... Probably not. We can't even get a YN2 Rivet Counter SD40-2. But, LETS MAKE ANOTHER GEVO!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 6:02:25 GMT -8
The thing that jumps out at me is that ST actually said:
There often are only about 20 orders for undecorated engines.
There is a high cancellation rate about 50%.
The factory does not want to make them.
Other manufacturers have said basically the same thing before, and yet some continue to clamor for undecorateds, saying the manufacturers are somehow "wrong"? Why? It's very clearly a money losing proposition for them. Don't even try to justify it based upon lack of instructions; that they'd "sell more" if they had instructions. Other manufacturers have said that the orders were just not there (even to the point of saying they will not do undecorated locos again).
It's very refreshing to see the truth come out. I'm thankful for that.
Also, knowing there are 500 parts or more in some of these locos, I don't think I'd ever want to build one myself even if instructions were available. I had enough frustration with Intermountain's reefer kits just trying to build a cut of them.
I'm a fan of manufacturers staying in business to give us more products that we want or need, which means they need to sell a whole lot more than 20 of each item. If eliminating undecorated engines is a means to that end, then that is ok by me. |
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Post by mdvle on Apr 18, 2021 6:13:26 GMT -8
More generally, Shane may have covered the concerns of some regarding SD40-2 paint schemes.
He talked about the initial design of their SD40-2 model, and how the variations (and hence tooling costs) were getting out of hand and he had to say enough - we can't tool everything at this point and stay in business so they tooled up what they could and have offered models based on what they tooled.
The flip side of our hobbies current drive to accuracy is that a manufacturer can no longer simply throw a paint scheme on a model and shove it out the door - they have to evaluate the tooling they have and decide whether they can produce the model that the paint scheme requires.
In the case of the ScaleTrains SD40-2 one of the tooling variations that got cut from the initial models was apparently ditch lights - which means paint schemes into the 90s when ditch lights became common were unavailable to be made no matter how much modellers demanded them.
As noted in my summary, ScaleTrains has spent the last year tooling up new SD40-2 stuff and if I recall correctly that now includes ditch lights - so those 90s paint schemes now become possible.
As for the "lets make another Gevo" remark.
This hobby is $$$ intensive for manufacturers - as ScaleTrains has said in the past tooling (never mind the research and production costs) of a new loco is $200k+. When you are a young manufacturer, who doesn't have an extensive inventory of past tooling to use to produce 5 to 10 re-runs a month of cash-flow, then you do need to rely heavily on what tooling you do have that sells well. If Gevo's are selling well, then ScaleTrains needs to keep producing them so they have the money on hand to pay to develop all the other models people want.
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Post by riogrande on Apr 18, 2021 6:33:26 GMT -8
Some of us get-it, that ScaleTrains cranks out lots of runs of the Gevo's and modern wide cabs because they sell and they generate much needed revenue to keep moving on development of new products.
If those modern diesels were "shiny" to me, I've flat broke. While in some ways I do wish ST would offer more 2nd gen diesels I could use, it helps budget-wise spacing out the stuff I want.
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Post by middledivision on Apr 18, 2021 6:36:03 GMT -8
The Gevos and SD40-2's are cash cows that will produce $'s for years.
Wait until they announce the NS Heritage units! And, when Shane was at our club with a couple other guys a few years ago, they said they had SD40-2 runs planned for many years.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 6:38:45 GMT -8
They may indeed be cash cows but I still do not expect every version to get made. I am fine with only the hot sellers...
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djh4d
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Post by djh4d on Apr 18, 2021 6:41:06 GMT -8
Probably not. We can't even get a YN2 Rivet Counter SD40-2. But, LETS MAKE ANOTHER GEVO!
I forgot to add "with ditch lights". Good job catching my error.
-Dave
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Post by mdvle on Apr 18, 2021 7:18:43 GMT -8
I forgot to add "with ditch lights". Good job catching my error.
In which case my other posts explain the issue - they hadn't yet tooled up the ditch light versions of the SD40-2 because they had to temporarily draw a line.
Now that they have tooled the ditch light variations your want should come along at some point.
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Post by westerntrains on Apr 18, 2021 7:24:33 GMT -8
I am slightly shocked by the comment that there are 10 rivet counter transition era freight cars coming from MTH designs. What I have seen of MTH HO scale freight cars I only thought one would be close enough to a rivet counter level of detail. Very few people could get past their dislike, extreme hate of MTH. They did some very nice cars, 55 ton hopper, ore car, and PFE reefer. Were they perfect, no, but no model is. I look forward to see what ST does with the MTH products they bought. Since the models will no have MTH on the boxes, I think modelers will take a look at the models and be surprised. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 18, 2021 7:37:55 GMT -8
In the case of the ScaleTrains SD40-2 one of the tooling variations that got cut from the initial models was apparently ditch lights - which means paint schemes into the 90s when ditch lights became common were unavailable to be made no matter how much modellers demanded them. As noted in my summary, ScaleTrains has spent the last year tooling up new SD40-2 stuff and if I recall correctly that now includes ditch lights - so those 90s paint schemes now become possible. Ditch lights certainly became available on ST SD40-2's by January 31 of 2020, as that's when I ordered my two. Ed |
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Post by unittrain on Apr 18, 2021 8:09:27 GMT -8
Hoping to see rivet counter PC and EL SD45s next.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 8:55:29 GMT -8
I am slightly shocked by the comment that there are 10 rivet counter transition era freight cars coming from MTH designs. What I have seen of MTH HO scale freight cars I only thought one would be close enough to a rivet counter level of detail. Very few people could get past their dislike, extreme hate of MTH. They did some very nice cars, 55 ton hopper, ore car, and PFE reefer. Were they perfect, no, but no model is. I look forward to see what ST does with the MTH products they bought. Since the models will no have MTH on the boxes, I think modelers will take a look at the models and be surprised. I completely agree. MTH was one of the first manufacturers to embrace application of Kadee whisker couplers to their freight cars. So right off the bat you get a free rolling car with good couplers that you don't have to change out. They made sure their stuff rolls very well, and I'm sorry to say NOT all other manufacturers, especially those offering high end expensive freight cars today, bother to make them roll well. If the manufacturer claims it is "free rolling" I have to take that with a grain of salt, because it probably just is not. The MTH PFE reefer is most certainly a good fleet car for those steam fans who need solid trains of them.
I possess a decent size fleet of high-end recently manufactured freight cars in the $50 and up range, and many of them just do not roll as well as they should for the price point and are like trying to pull a sled. The rather affordable (by comparison) Atlas HO Topgons, and some other similar cars, blow away the high-end cars regarding how free rolling they are right out of the box. With the Atlas freight cars, the very same locos can pull trains that are easily twice as long as the high-end cars will allow them to pull. (This is before any alterations at all to reduce friction).
With the MTH name removed, and a few minor upgrades where it makes economic sense to do so, I bet modelers will indeed be very surprised. Sadly the credit will likely not go to those who originally tooled them, but to ST after all the upgrades. (Disclaimer: I currently own only one MTH freight car as much of what they made didn't fit my diesel era, but I did own them in the past when I had steam power).
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Post by alexandrianick on Apr 18, 2021 15:48:54 GMT -8
The thing that jumps out at me is that ST actually said: There often are only about 20 orders for undecorated engines. Interesting. Not the low numbers. The paradox that I might own 10 percent of all of the undec SD45s. This makes them extremely rare (usually a sign of value creation), yet also worthless because no one wants them. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 20:11:46 GMT -8
I never said they would be worthless, only that there is a limited market appeal. They are undec SD45's. Somebody WILL want them, if not today, then eventually. The challenge is finding that willing buyer. I bet if you put them out there on Ebay they will sell. They might take awhile, but everything sells eventually if the price is fair (and if you don't want to build them). Heck, I have a PRR fan friend who might actually go there...I'll ask him.
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Post by alexandrianick on Apr 18, 2021 20:39:26 GMT -8
Oh, I'm definitely turning them in to something. It just tickles me to have something that is both rare and not really desired
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Post by markfj on Apr 19, 2021 3:24:16 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 7:52:16 GMT -8
Oh, I'm definitely turning them in to something. It just tickles me to have something that is both rare and not really desired Ha ha. Lionel Girls Train - it is both very rare, and was very unpopular - and is worth serious money today. It is pink, and not the most attractive train anyway even if you ignore the pink. Few actually sold, or rather, most that were ever sold were repainted by their owners to something other than pink. So to have one of those original train sets today makes it virtually the centerpiece of any train collection. I only ever saw one. It is located in the Larue C. Shemp train collection in the Lycoming County Hysterical Society Museum located in Williamsport, PA. Mr. Shemp had trains that even Mr. Lewis K. English, Sr (of Bowser Manufacturing) was never able to obtain in his extensive Lionel collection, one of which was the girl's train. |
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Post by 690 on Apr 23, 2021 17:23:58 GMT -8
Wasn't there supposed to be an announcement for the next run of SD45s on Thursday?
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Post by mdvle on Apr 23, 2021 20:05:37 GMT -8
Wasn't there supposed to be an announcement for the next run of SD45s on Thursday?
Email newsletter today indicates it will be next Thursday - either they changed it or I misheard what was said in the Q&A.
Hints that one of the SD45 models will be in a bicentennial paint scheme.
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Post by simulatortrain on Apr 24, 2021 4:10:12 GMT -8
Wasn't there supposed to be an announcement for the next run of SD45s on Thursday?
Email newsletter today indicates it will be next Thursday - either they changed it or I misheard what was said in the Q&A.
Hints that one of the SD45 models will be in a bicentennial paint scheme.
So I guess that makes it EL? |
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Post by wmrdgfan on Apr 29, 2021 11:22:12 GMT -8
Are we going to see an announcement today? Anyone have any info?
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Post by riogrande on Apr 29, 2021 13:11:06 GMT -8
Next Thursday is here. Crickets so far.
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Post by mdvle on Apr 29, 2021 13:25:10 GMT -8
A quick look through my mailbox shows that ScaleTrains emails typically get sent/arrive between 6:00pm and 6:10pm Eastern time, so about another 40 minutes perhaps.
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Post by riogrande on Apr 29, 2021 13:49:07 GMT -8
Standing by. I'm just hoping they don't double whammy me with SP 3rd order+ and D&RGW SD45's at the same time.
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Post by lars on Apr 29, 2021 14:20:18 GMT -8
Standing by. I'm just hoping they don't double whammy me with SP 3rd order+ and D&RGW SD45's at the same time. And then Athearn will announce D&RGW ICC cabooses tomorrow! |
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