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Post by el3625 on Dec 25, 2021 10:02:45 GMT -8
Back to the Erie Lackawanna SD45's, I received mine 3 units, a grey roof, a black roof and the bi-cent. All are very nice locomotives and I am more than happy to have a decent SD45. I guess you are going to get any combo of the black roof thing but what stood out the most to me was I think the gray is to light, it should be darker. I have painted at least 50 Erie Lackawanna locomotives in the GMY scheme over the last 30 years with different manufacturers paint and none are as light as the ST rivet counters. Even other manufacturers EL locomotives paint match what I have painted. I had to touch up a spot on one of the ST and the only color that matched there gray paint color was Tru-Color flat concrete #801. Tru-Color's EL gray was also darker than the EL gray units from ST. They do stand out from every other EL locomotive that I have purchased or painted. But overall I got a nice EL SD45 finally. If I did not have to assemble SO many small and fragile details and if I could see that good yet I would have bought undec's and painted myself. I will just run these together so it is not so obvious. But what a nice locomotive!
Bruce
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Post by elsdp45 on Dec 25, 2021 10:36:18 GMT -8
Hi Bruce,
I have not got mine yet but have been curious about the nose herald. Did they make it red or maroon? Their illustration looked red. As far as the operator version, if they had put low fans and the correct horn placement, I would have bought some of those too. Even Athearn on their RTR line did that. You also got snow plows and air hoses as well.
Thanks Chris
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2021 10:48:33 GMT -8
I am not here to pretend that ST is perfect.
However, comparing photographs of available Athearn models to available ST models, for what I want right now, I am happy to buy the ST version. The Athearn versions of the models I want--well let's just say the ST versions look better, especially regarding the handrails, and also appear to be a more accurate model even down to the paint colors.
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Post by el3625 on Dec 25, 2021 19:00:10 GMT -8
Pictures cannot be accurate, you need them to be side by side and with your own eyes. I love the ST SD45's and just saying the gray is to light.
Bruce
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Post by el3625 on Dec 25, 2021 19:37:12 GMT -8
Chris,
I just checked mine rivet counter ST SD45's and the hearld is on the red side. If I remember right as EL repainted their locomotives in the 70's they started to get the hearld with the red in it and the ST EL units represent units that were repainted.
Bruce
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Post by lvrr325 on Dec 25, 2021 21:50:12 GMT -8
IIRC EL went to stickers for the nose herald at some point and those heralds either were more red to start with, or faded out to a red as they aged.
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Post by lars on Dec 26, 2021 8:33:42 GMT -8
I heard that interview also. Pertaining to the Operator brand, I think it goes to underscore that while there are those that post on forums lamenting the dwindling availability of cheaper, stripped down locomotive models, they are not backing up their desires with their wallets. Or more likely, there just isn’t really that many of them. Tom While the general trend seems to be a move to high-detail, high-price, high value(?), I think what may be hurting ScaleTrains in particular is a weak brick and mortar dealer network. Lower price points may be a bit more appealing to walk-in traffic and at that price point there’s certainly less discrimination towards unit and era appropriate detailing. What I would like to see is a bit more of a middle ground in detail level, similar to Athearn’s latest RTR SD40’s and 40-2’s. You’re getting individual grabs and rings, see-through fans and grilles, wipers and other nicely detailed goodies and road-specific, but skipping the lit numberboards, ground lights and some of the other complexities. I don’t see this happening yet aside from what is already out there but as some manufacturers start to push features and price, a wider gap will open to fill. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Dec 26, 2021 9:58:59 GMT -8
I heard that interview also. Pertaining to the Operator brand, I think it goes to underscore that while there are those that post on forums lamenting the dwindling availability of cheaper, stripped down locomotive models, they are not backing up their desires with their wallets. Or more likely, there just isn’t really that many of them. Tom While the general trend seems to be a move to high-detail, high-price, high value(?), I think what may be hurting ScaleTrains in particular is a weak brick and mortar dealer network. Lower price points may be a bit more appealing to walk-in traffic and at that price point there’s certainly less discrimination towards unit and era appropriate detailing. What I would like to see is a bit more of a middle ground in detail level, similar to Athearn’s latest RTR SD40’s and 40-2’s. You’re getting individual grabs and rings, see-through fans and grilles, wipers and other nicely detailed goodies and road-specific, but skipping the lit numberboards, ground lights and some of the other complexities. I don’t see this happening yet aside from what is already out there but as some manufacturers start to push features and price, a wider gap will open to fill. Someone else made that observation in the past.... That aside, some guys just have to see it first, handle it, before they're going to buy it. For this brand it is much more difficult to do that. |
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Post by 12bridge on Dec 26, 2021 14:10:27 GMT -8
 Super nice model, but that gray leaves quite a lot to be desired.. It is way too light. The horn casting is REALLY nice, I would love to buy some separately, however - it does still have the typical issue that both the Details West and Athearn horns have, it does not have the proper "lean" to it for the Leslie U manifold, they are molded as a flat, parallel part. |
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Post by el3625 on Dec 26, 2021 14:49:41 GMT -8
Very disappointing on the shade of gray they went with. Scaletrains supposedly worked with people from the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society to get this right. I would like to know who it was. Either way whoever they worked with on this is colorblind or ST model research department did this on their own. What a way to make a nice model look bad. You cannot run this with other EL models because they do not match at all. I tried to give them a little guidance in the beginning on the EL model but no one wanted to listen on anything. These were the only locomotives I have ever purchased from ST and for the money they should be correct. I do not care what anyone says about Athearn locomotives, they still and are the best for me, never an issue. No more for me from them! I will wait to see a model from now on before I purchase again and if I miss out, OH well! I am just very disappointed as I was waiting for these for a long time.
Bruce
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Post by csxt8400 on Dec 26, 2021 15:29:44 GMT -8
Very disappointing on the shade of gray they went with. Scaletrains supposedly worked with people from the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society to get this right. I would like to know who it was. Either way whoever they worked with on this is colorblind or ST model research department did this on their own. What a way to make a nice model look bad. You cannot run this with other EL models because they do not match at all. I tried to give them a little guidance in the beginning on the EL model but no one wanted to listen on anything. These were the only locomotives I have ever purchased from ST and for the money they should be correct. I do not care what anyone says about Athearn locomotives, they still and are the best for me, never an issue. No more for me from them! I will wait to see a model from now on before I purchase again and if I miss out, OH well! I am just very disappointed as I was waiting for these for a long time. Bruce Well, for EL they (Athearn) have done an ok job, but the WC version of the SDP45 sucked just as much as the SXT abomination posted by 12bridge. Seems every manufacturer tends to run into color issues, but I find it odd how this one was dropped by SXT. It's a gray, one that has been done forever, and shouldn't have been in question to begin with. Sorry for you EL folks. |
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Post by markfj on Dec 26, 2021 15:47:26 GMT -8
Super nice model, but that gray leaves quite a lot to be desired.. It is way too light. The horn casting is REALLY nice, I would love to buy some separately, however - it does still have the typical issue that both the Details West and Athearn horns have, it does not have the proper "lean" to it for the Leslie U manifold, they are molded as a flat, parallel part. Whoa, that photo is very telling. And this is a historical society approved color? Does the EL society have drift cards or are they trying to match the color based on photos or original paint codes? I’m also wondering if this was a situation where the factory was sent the approved color and someone there made a substitute without letting ST know. Didn’t that happen before with another manufacturer? Also including a photo of a “U” type manifold. If ST does the GP30, this is “must have” part for most early GP30s. Not sure they will do a new casting since they didn’t do it for the EL SD45 though.   Thanks, Mark J. Reading, PA |
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Post by 12bridge on Dec 26, 2021 16:12:08 GMT -8
Right now the only way to get a correct SU3L is to use the old Custom Finishing horn, which builds up into a really nice piece with some effort, the trick is getting the older brass ones, the new pewter ones are junk. The lean is exaugurated on a number of EL engines as well, as the bracket itself was often bent over. The U boats used the same horn, but in the opposite arrangement, which was also used on the GP30's. Custom Finishing Left, Scale Trains Right (After seeing this, I need to change that plow out...oops)  Details West Left, Custom Finishing Right  Straight on view of my ex EL SU3LR, with the manifold on a flat surface.  I have been a huge proponent of getting correct horns on our models, because there is no reason not to, especially with SO MANY in collectors hands now. Some of these factory horns were getting lately are total trash, when we have 30 some year old castings that are better. |
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Post by mdvle on Dec 26, 2021 16:36:00 GMT -8
Interestingly, if I scroll the post by markfj on my screen so that the models and the prototype photo are both on the screen at the same time, on my monitor the ScaleTrains lighter grey looks far closer to the prototype colours than the model behind it.
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Post by unittrain on Dec 26, 2021 16:36:18 GMT -8
Wow that grey is blinding 😳 they definitely dropped the ball there I'll stick with just my two PC units on this run hopefully they fix the EL paint in a future run then I'll get one. The yellow might even be borderline bright too, but yeah that grey can't be seen next to the Athearn units for sure.
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Post by wmrdgfan on Dec 26, 2021 16:56:44 GMT -8
This almost makes me want to cancel my order!!! I have 4 of these damn things ordered! I am so tiered of this with not only these, but LV RS11s that are fluorescent orange, WM fa2s with Farr grills, B36-7s with wrong side frames, and all the other problems of the past few years. If you look at the pictures of the EL Bi Cent unit, the blue looks way too bright! When are these manufacturers going to start showing us what we are buying before they ask us for pre orders. These 3d and computer renderings just aren't cutting it.
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Post by cemr5396 on Dec 26, 2021 16:59:28 GMT -8
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Post by cemr5396 on Dec 26, 2021 17:02:21 GMT -8
Interestingly, if I scroll the post by markfj on my screen so that the models and the prototype photo are both on the screen at the same time, on my monitor the ScaleTrains lighter grey looks far closer to the prototype colours than the model behind it. that photo is very blue in tone, just look at the white areas in the photo. Makes the grey look lighter than it should. |
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Post by brammy on Dec 26, 2021 17:06:51 GMT -8
It looks like the Gray on my old Bachmann (likely) GP35 I got in the 80s. Here is a pic of the 3625 that in better lighting.  |
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Post by mdvle on Dec 26, 2021 18:26:27 GMT -8
Interestingly, if I scroll the post by markfj on my screen so that the models and the prototype photo are both on the screen at the same time, on my monitor the ScaleTrains lighter grey looks far closer to the prototype colours than the model behind it. that photo is very blue in tone, just look at the white areas in the photo. Makes the grey look lighter than it should.
To me, the whites look white (particularly the number boards).
But, and sort of the point I was trying to make, judging colours on non-calibrated computers is asking for trouble. You really need to see it in person.
I'm not trying to say ScaleTrains got it right, because I don't know, but just generally be aware of the limitations one experiences when trying to compare things online.
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Post by gevohogger on Dec 26, 2021 18:33:51 GMT -8
Makes me wonder if the "correct" gray lies somewhere in-between the Scale Trains and the Athearn gray.
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Post by el3625 on Dec 26, 2021 18:53:23 GMT -8
Well, I am looking at it in person and it is a very light gray as it shows in these photo's here next to the Athearn. It is that far off. The gray ST used matches tru-color #801 concrete. My own painted, with Scalecoat paint, even match Athearn's EL gray.
Bruce
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Post by lvrr325 on Dec 27, 2021 0:32:11 GMT -8
It's highly likely there is some variation in shade between EL home repaints and factory painted locomotives. Maybe even variation between which shop painted them, what year they were painted, or even what day of the week. As long as they don't glow in the dark like the AHRS Rapido LV RS11s, some variation aught to be fine.
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Post by ambluco on Dec 27, 2021 5:49:44 GMT -8
That's the gray that modern railroads use (see North Shore or the D-L in PA) use when trying to imitate the EL. Super nice model, but that gray leaves quite a lot to be desired.. It is way too light. The horn casting is REALLY nice, I would love to buy some separately, however - it does still have the typical issue that both the Details West and Athearn horns have, it does not have the proper "lean" to it for the Leslie U manifold, they are molded as a flat, parallel part. |
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Post by unittrain on Dec 27, 2021 5:52:52 GMT -8
The gray on these units reminds me of my Intermountain N scale SD45-2 I couldn't team it up with my Katos or my Atlas units as it was a kinda bright bluish gray, I sold it since my switch to HO so only going by memory but it was definitely too light like these. If I remember the yellow on those was bad too! Way too light.
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Post by champagnetrail on Dec 27, 2021 8:42:56 GMT -8
IIRC EL went to stickers for the nose herald at some point and those heralds either were more red to start with, or faded out to a red as they aged. Yes...you are correct! I can't place a date on the switch, but I can ask around. The earlier nose heralds were a maroon color, but at some point, the EL changed to a Scotchlite decal that was more of a red color. A lot of photos of repaints show this. In between the two, the EL got a "bad" batch of nose heralds that faded badly, if there was even barely an outline of the diamond left. Still trying to convince Prime Mover to make a decal of that one, and the "yuck face" for the EL cabooses that we might get from Tangent one day. |
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Post by lars on Dec 27, 2021 9:27:14 GMT -8
That's the gray that modern railroads use (see North Shore or the D-L in PA) use when trying to imitate the EL. Yes they are. The pic is pretty close to what I see. However, the NS EL SD45-2 and Lackawanna heritage unit are much darker.  |
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Post by champagnetrail on Dec 27, 2021 9:39:17 GMT -8
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.
To my eye, the gray looks too light, especially for a late repaint. That being said, the EL gray tended toward a lighter color as it aged. Hey, maybe it is "primed for grime"!!!
To my eye, Athearn got the gray color the closest for the EL units, but before they get too much credit, they have certainly gotten colors wrong before.
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Post by champagnetrail on Dec 27, 2021 13:18:05 GMT -8
See comment in other thread... Scale Trains obviously used the wrong shade of gray, which should be Pantone 429C.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Dec 27, 2021 13:21:37 GMT -8
See comment in other thread... Scale Trains obviously used the wrong shade of gray, which should be Pantone 429C. ...just like the wrong Santa Fe "red" on the first C44-9W. Bob |
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