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Post by typhoon on Aug 25, 2022 12:29:57 GMT -8
So there are variations of the way the locomotives looked over their service life. Something to take into consideration before posting, I have never seen Grande Gold PA with black grabs, so therefore Rapido is wrong! It is much like looking at a scan of a 60 year old Ektachrome slide that was developed in the back of a drug store, and deciding based on the scan, that the color of a model is wrong.
Now it's ok to make comments based on photos.
😂. I believe my comment was I don’t make judgement of models based on photos of them. But sure, go with your bad self if you think that is the same as pointing out the colors of a long gong prototype via photos. Go watch a Rapido marketing add and calm down. |
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Post by cera2254 on Aug 25, 2022 13:49:35 GMT -8
I can deal with a paint color that is slightly off, but if the model can't even come with a consistent color that's a big problem. This isn't the first Rapido model that's suffered from this. The Kodachrome B36-7s and the Conrail RS11s suffered the same affliction. Not sure what the issue is with pointing out the obvious flaws.
The grabs are a whole other deal. I guess I struggle with the issue of using plastic grabs, instead of tooling NBW castings with the body and then adding wire grabs. Are there any other models that have this sort of construction?
Like I said before, these are just real head scratchers, why reinvent the wheel when what you come up with isn't as good as the previous wheel? I do have to say that the photos of the NKP units seem to look good, and those were always my favorite PAs.
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Post by atsf_4 on Aug 25, 2022 17:44:29 GMT -8
It might be worth mentioning that others have no qualms using thin section stainless steel grab irons for both appearance and durability, and they don't seem to care about a missing bolt or rivet head if the overall appearance is more nearly to scale. Nobody is complaining about those missing bolt heads.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 25, 2022 19:36:53 GMT -8
"You're only a customer. What do YOU know about what you need? You know nothing.
WE know what you need.
Buy it."
I just read a similar account about German optics, back in the day. That didn't work out well for the German companies.
Ed
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Post by atsf_4 on Aug 26, 2022 6:27:05 GMT -8
Excuse me for complaining about the utter disconnect between Rapido's artwork used to advertise and order these models actually being different from the model they are delivering. If the DRGW unit shows up, I just told my buddy that I'd take it and try to do some actual modeling by removing the offending grabs and then hopefully replace them. I hope they are pressed fit and not glued in place, and it is still extremely annoying to have to contemplate modifying a brand new model and hoping I can do it well enough to only require paintbrush touchups. Since I have plenty of credit with the store I might still get an NKP version too.
However, stuff like this is exactly the reason I will never pre-order one.single.item from Rapido again. Now it's apparent that I can't even trust their colored drawings, and fuggetaboutit factory UNFINISHED pilot models.
There have been too many issues, and models that I really wanted were not up to reasonable quality control standards. Their vaunted arrow straight hybrid plastic and metal handrails are not that, except on some but not all of the B36-7's. I have voted with my wallet and bought other diesels from other manufacturers, excepting these PA units, because I wanted a decent PA that was perhaps in some ways better than P2K or MTH.
For me personally, I have never experienced as many issues with one manufacturer's products. Sure others had the occasional issue but in most cases they take care of it for you, and most manufacturer's customer service has been first rate for me. Even Walthers who doesn't have parts will still take a defective item back and replace or refund my money whether I bought it directly from them OR from one of their dealers. They sent a new replacement model and I was happy. Most of the other manufacturers have been much better about their handrails lately from what I have seen.
When asked nicely, most other manufacturers bent over backwards to help me with issues, often like Brian Marsh at Overland Models going the extra mile to help me out as a customer. Too bad OMI is effectively gone.
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Post by lvrr325 on Aug 26, 2022 7:17:54 GMT -8
I remember taking similar grabs off an early proto unit and broke a couple and finally looked inside and they'd been melted into place.
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Post by atsf_4 on Aug 26, 2022 7:21:52 GMT -8
That's exactly what I'm afraid of. I have a good snipping tool to remove parts from sprues but not sure I can trim close enough from the outside to not ruin. Would first try to push out from inside, to see if able to do so.
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Post by lvrr325 on Aug 26, 2022 7:35:00 GMT -8
If I were to try to tackle those again I would try and scrape the melted ends off from the inside, maybe with a small chisel blade.
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Post by atsf2333 on Aug 26, 2022 7:56:51 GMT -8
If you pushed the plastic grab out, wouldn't the remaining hole be too large for the wire grab? Wouldn't you want to leave the plastic in the hole and redrill for wire? For that matter how about snipping off the grab and keeping the bolt casting. Could you redrill into that to add the wire?
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Post by atsf2333 on Aug 26, 2022 7:59:10 GMT -8
Or would doing the above make it too difficult to drill the holes accurately and keep the grabs straight?
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Post by gevohogger on Aug 26, 2022 8:02:43 GMT -8
Or would doing the above make it too difficult to drill the holes accurately and keep the grabs straight? That does add a certain amount of challenge to it. I've made attempts at it in the past, and they always come out looking bad. |
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Post by Baikal on Aug 26, 2022 8:09:04 GMT -8
Excuse me for complaining about the utter disconnect between Rapido's artwork used to advertise and order these models actually being different from the model they are delivering.
Business as usual for some.
On the other hand, the PA looks better than the E8 : (
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Post by nwp0ncrr on Aug 26, 2022 8:11:36 GMT -8
I am no expert. But, this model seems overhyped, overpriced and poorly executed based on the information currently available.
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Post by atsf_4 on Aug 26, 2022 9:36:18 GMT -8
Or would doing the above make it too difficult to drill the holes accurately and keep the grabs straight? That does add a certain amount of challenge to it. I've made attempts at it in the past, and they always come out looking bad. This is exactly what I'm concerned about. Sometimes I intend to make a certain repair like this and the end results end up looking worse than if I simply had left it alone. I will be very careful with what I choose to do. Drilling on some clipped bolt head will not go well. I've tried in the past. I sorta want one DRGW unit; I'd rather have a good NKP bluebird but then would have to get a Walthers DRGW unit (which I can't use my credit to buy if the distributors don't have them any longer). Will know later today which PA-1 I will be getting... Overhyped and over-priced? Yeah I concur. |
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Post by craigz on Aug 26, 2022 10:05:12 GMT -8
It might be worth mentioning that others have no qualms using thin section stainless steel grab irons for both appearance and durability, and they don't seem to care about a missing bolt or rivet head if the overall appearance is more nearly to scale. Nobody is complaining about those missing bolt heads. Atlas, Athearn and others are able to cast the nut/bolt details onto the car body and slip the wire grab irons into the holes below said details. And have been doing it for years. My first thought when I saw the plastic grab irons was that the 1995 called and wants its parts back. The plastic grabs are a step backwards in my opinion. Your mileage may vary. |
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Post by craigz on Aug 26, 2022 10:07:42 GMT -8
I remember taking similar grabs off an early proto unit and broke a couple and finally looked inside and they'd been melted into place. Exactly. But one could usually take a sharp Xacto blade, carve off the melt booger, and easily push/pull the offending plastic part off. The remaining holes were oversized and needed to be plugged and drilled, but it was worth it to lose the fatso or translucent or both plastic parts. |
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Post by ssw on Aug 26, 2022 10:17:48 GMT -8
From the glue craze around the grab irons on the trainworld atsf pics, I'd say they're CA'd in
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Post by atsf_4 on Aug 27, 2022 15:19:01 GMT -8
Good news and bad news:
One large midwestern distributor finally received their container load of Rapido PA's yesterday. However the orders were coming in so furiously that they had to momentarily stop processing orders as their inventory was getting a bit out of sync and they realized they had to get a better handle on what they still have available.
So good news is I won't have to modify a DRGW PA-1 to fix the grabs because apparently they are most likely all gone or otherwise spoken for (that's the bad news for me).
The distributor was "99% sure" that I can have one NKP unit which may show up here in about a week. Other distributors are reportedly showing complete or nearly complete sellout.
Because I've been selling some trains through my friend's local store I have plenty of credit I can spend on new models ordered from any distributor or importer that they are able to buy directly from, but having just also purchased 5 new RS-3 models, I don't have cash right now, so I can't scarf up any (more) units of anything off ebay. (I'm selling stuff on Ebay but they hold the cash raised for weeks).
I'm also backdating my freight car roster to basically 1960's as I just really fell in love with the RS-3 model after never really being interested in them before.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 27, 2022 16:12:41 GMT -8
I'm also backdating my freight car roster to basically 1960's as I just really fell in love with the RS-3 model after never really being interested in them before. Being an SP&S kind of guy, I HAVE to like RS-3's. And I do. But my first Alco love is the RSD-4/5. That was my first real diesel, a Hobbytown. When Bowser pops those out, I'm a'gonna have to make decisions, as "my" railroad didn't have any; but I want some anyway. Probly a couple of Santa Fe in zebra. Would THREE be too many? Ed |
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Post by atsf_4 on Aug 27, 2022 16:42:58 GMT -8
Ed--
I am now basically collecting whichever RS-3 paint scheme I like, but I got all 3 NKP units because they are just so hot, and a red GB&W, and an L&N. This also means I'm blowing out Centuries just because the earlier Alcos are neat to me (so I can also have a PA).
I'm learning from my debacle this past month and making sure I'm getting a couple orders in for the Spring 2023 arrival of more RS-3's so I don't have to buy off ebay. I don't like my buddy contacting distributors and finding out stuff is already gone; can't let that happen again (twice in one month!).
Bowser is trying to keep their loco factory busy; they are slightly concerned about having enough projects to do that. Suffice it to say there are more Alco's coming. You are going to be very happy, but I have no idea how soon the RSD-4/5 is coming though I think they said the truck is already being tooled? can't remember for sure if it's different from the C628 truck in any way. They are already several projects out in advance from what has actually been announced, but I have no idea how soon the other versions will materialize. I just saw sample bodies of the hammerhead (but didn't look too closely as they are almost white and I didn't know anything about the prototype). There will be other versions of the RS-3, and more models that I don't think I am allowed to say (not C-415 just yet, at least I didn't happen to see one). Various vent arrangements of RS-3 have already been developed and tooled and Lee has plastic samples.
I asked specifically about the neat Interstate orange, white and silver RS-3, and Lee had an entire folder of neat color images of the prototypes. I will need one someday because it's cool.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 27, 2022 17:00:30 GMT -8
I'm one of the lucky few who got a couple of the OMI C-415's (BN and SP&S). They are sweet, indeed. But a Rock Island one from Bowser would be nice:  I like the more conservative scheme on these. Yes, the NKP ones are gorgeous!!! Ed |
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Post by atsf_4 on Aug 27, 2022 17:06:01 GMT -8
The Rapido NKP PA-1 is way cool too.
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Post by mvlandsw on Aug 27, 2022 19:37:13 GMT -8
Has anyone noticed that the headlight grill is square on the model and rectangular on the prototype?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 27, 2022 19:52:50 GMT -8
Has anyone noticed that the headlight grill is square on the model and rectangular on the prototype? Show me. Ed |
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Post by mvlandsw on Aug 27, 2022 20:56:54 GMT -8
Look at the side by side picture on page 2 of this thread.
Mark
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 28, 2022 7:12:57 GMT -8
Look at the side by side picture on page 2 of this thread. Mark I do believe you're right. Also do the comparison on page 5, with the three snouts. Here's a great shot of that grille, from nearly dead-on straight...  ...if anyone wants to build an accurate model of a PA. I had a look for a similar view of the Rapido model, but couldn't find one. Ed |
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Post by onequiknova on Aug 28, 2022 12:14:08 GMT -8
Looking at the comparison on page 5, it looks like both the upper and lower headlights are too large to me. That may be throwing off the grille. Hard to say without a straight on view of the Rapido.
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Post by talltim on Aug 28, 2022 12:29:32 GMT -8
I think that’s it’s the size of the headlight rather than the width of the grill. If the grill was too narrow then the door would also be too narrow. Because the upper headlight has too large a diameter it cuts into the bottom edge of the grill in a way that it doesn’t on the prototype. The larger diameter means that is less room for the grill either side, making it appear squarer.
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Post by markfj on Aug 28, 2022 13:14:54 GMT -8
The black painted strips are covering the ends of the ribs making that section look more like a square than a rectangle. However, it is clear when looking at the upper and lower ribs that the headlight opening is molded slightly too large compared to the prototype. Repost of image from page 2:  Thanks, Mark |
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Post by atsf_4 on Aug 28, 2022 17:59:35 GMT -8
Seriously, ugh. So much for the so highly touted 3D scanning.
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