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Post by sourwyfan on Aug 13, 2022 15:41:24 GMT -8
Observations on Rapido's Southern Railway E-8 preproduction model pictured above (Hopefully they will correct at least some of these items before production???)... The mounting brackets holding the air reservoirs to the roof are horrendous looking, yuck! Additionally there should be support brackets on the front and rear air piping. Another error they totally messed up on is the routing of the front air reservoir piping. It should be closer to the winterization hatch just like the rear piping routing. See markings on attached screenshot and pic below...   Screenshoots above from Rapido News 155  Picture above from Frank Greene Also something looks off with the number board, don't think it's the gasket being black I think it's the size of the gasket as it looks oddly out of proportion and has too large of a bead/roll. And the opening portholes sashes/rings look to large and out of proportion as well. (If these are off they will be wrong on all the production models!) I really hope they do a better job with the air reservoir piping in production, it looks real sloppy here...  Screenshoot above from Rapido News 155  Picture above by Nick Henderson In addition the MU hoses bracket looks flat on the pilot and not angled off of it so the hoses are hanging in a straight line across the front of loco per the prototype (Very prominent miss)...   Screenshoot above from Rapido News 155 Picture above from TommyLaStella Some extremely visible and important details that appear wrong and are very obvious are the number boards and porthole rings. Also several detail specific details are inaccurate air reservoir mounting brackets, lack of flag holders, lack of spark arrestors on exhaust stacks, lack of mirrors and the size/shape of the eyebrow handrails over cab windows. (I had shared all of the above detail specifics and observations with them earlier this year) Overall a good effort but still not as impressive as I thought Rapido was promising to produce, looks more like a Walthers production level effort. (Sorry but not sorry Rapido) This project launch seems to have been to big and to much at one time to be a home run. I think they tried to release to many unique versions at one time, there were plenty of railroads with "standard" E-8's that would have allowed them to prefect it before adding detail specific complications. Best Regards, Rahl |
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Post by theengineshed on Aug 13, 2022 17:40:23 GMT -8
The gubbins on the roof may improve, but if that is a production body shell, you might be stuck with the number boards and portholes...
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Post by slowfreight on Aug 13, 2022 18:32:42 GMT -8
Thanks for the quick notes. The SOU E units were the only "distraction" projects that caught my eye. I almost bought a pair of the Walthers ones despite the horrid contours. One would have become a patched NJDoT, and one would have ridden in my Panama Limited "A-B-A" between a pair of IHP Pooches, pulling all of 6 cars.
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Post by ambluco on Aug 14, 2022 5:00:05 GMT -8
I thought the Es were past pre-production. I thought the special black Amtrak was in stock?
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Post by NS4122 on Aug 14, 2022 5:16:49 GMT -8
According to the Rapido website, the Amtrak black units are in transit and the others are in production. I thought the Es were past pre-production. I thought the special black Amtrak was in stock? |
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Post by elsdp45 on Aug 14, 2022 5:49:49 GMT -8
I am not a Southern modeler, but why is the color of the lettering different? Also, none of grabs, ladders rails, or steps are painted yellow.
I model Erie Lackawanna and I feel your pain. ;-)
Chris
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Post by Mr. Trainiac on Aug 14, 2022 7:05:14 GMT -8
I am not a Southern modeler, but why is the color of the lettering different? Also, none of grabs, ladders rails, or steps are painted yellow. I model Erie Lackawanna and I feel your pain. ;-) Chris The grab irons are not painted yellow because the prototype photos shown are for a modern restoration. It's most likely for safety and FRA rules compliance if they plan on using it for excursion purposes. In service, they were green. The color is also correct. That 'gold leaf' color was used by the Southern, again I suspect the change to Dulux was an economic choice by the restorers: rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=273816 This color looks a lot closer to the one chosen by Rapido. Some Southern units appear to have been painted with yellow pinstriping, but I'm not sure when the changeover was; if Southern switched from gold leaf to Dulux like the PRR, or if the gold color was for a certain order of locomotives. |
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Post by 12bridge on Aug 14, 2022 8:03:29 GMT -8
The visibly sagging coupler is a nice touch. I refrain from comment on the details.
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Post by jonklein611 on Aug 14, 2022 8:54:58 GMT -8
The E8's are in production / shipping.
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Post by csxt8400 on Aug 14, 2022 8:58:53 GMT -8
The numberboard area does look off, seems it's stretched too wide for one. Very easy to compare where the paint curves towards the middle of the nose.. The portholes may be correct size, but the thick 3-D windows do it no favors.
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Post by Baikal on Aug 14, 2022 9:09:11 GMT -8
...And the opening portholes sashes/rings look to large and out of proportion as well. (If these are off they will be wrong on all the production models!) I really hope they do a better job with the air reservoir piping in production, it looks real sloppy here... Screenshoot above from Rapido News 155
No "ifs" about it.
Fifty-five years ago Rivarossi / AHM rendered the portholes much better ho-scaletrains.com/ahm-emd-e8/ Scroll down to the EL unit. The difference is stunning.
With Rapido locos, you are paying primarily for the name, not for quality. This is the goal of modern "western" marketing. A more accurate model would have cut into short-term profits.
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Post by sourwyfan on Aug 14, 2022 10:30:02 GMT -8
The one thing that keeps running through my head is that they 3D scanned that Union Pacific E-8 loco and the number boards and portholes were one of the things not altered on Southern's. Is it the picture of the preproduction example or did some compromises/liberties get taken with the model version? Makes me think of the main reason I heard production is so late, the Chinese factory altered the CAD drawings of the underframe/chassis so the body sat to high.
This is an example of how not presenting a preproduction model until production has already started can be bad!
I know with all the projects and variations of E-8's that Rapido is attempting they could easily miss glaring mistakes but they need to listen more after preproduction examples are built but in enough time to allow input from the modelers out there!!! (Taking about an input period or similar to whats happening with the GP-38 project?)
While I know they can't correct/replicate every detail, who knows more and is more passionate than someone who wants a model of their favorite loco?
BR
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Post by onequiknova on Aug 14, 2022 11:20:21 GMT -8
On an as built E8, the glass in all four port holes should be the same size. When looking at pics of UP E9's, (Which Rapido scanned), many of them have thinner frames and larger glass on the inner two portholes. I don't know if this was a UP modification, or built that way. Either way, it's wrong for any E8 I see in a quick image search. It looks like this "feature" has crept into rapido's tooling. The forward porthole on Rapido's model looks too small to my eye, but maybe it's just the really thick "glass" throwing things off. I'd have to see one in person.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 14, 2022 11:46:28 GMT -8
All of the portholes on the model look too small to me. With some being more too-smaller than others.
On the other hand, the sand-filler openings are too big.
Ed
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Post by markfj on Aug 14, 2022 12:07:10 GMT -8
Whatever is going on with that forward porthole is rather evident when seen in the Pennsy scheme. Looks to be clearly a different size.   I recall when the two E8s shown in the photo above were being restored at Reading and they had to reinstall the portholes because Amtrak had them removed. As far as I can remember all the porthole fixtures were the same on both sides. Also, they were real EMD portholes sourced from somewhere (I remember seeing them before installation). Thanks, Mark J. Reading, PA |
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Post by Baikal on Aug 14, 2022 13:08:37 GMT -8
On an as built E8, the glass in all four port holes should be the same size. When looking at pics of UP E9's, (Which Rapido scanned), many of them have thinner frames and larger glass on the inner two portholes. I don't know if this was a UP modification, or built that way. Either way, it's wrong for any E8 I see in a quick image search. It looks like this "feature" has crept into rapido's tooling. The forward porthole on Rapido's model looks too small to my eye, but maybe it's just the really thick "glass" throwing things off. I'd have to see one in person.
It appears that the center two portholes on all(??) E9As have a thinner "metal*" gasket, which exposes more glass than the older thick rubber gasket windows used on the E8As. The glass MAY even be bigger, can't tell, doubtful. The outer two portholes on E9As and some E8As are openable and use a thicker gasket like used on E8s. Opening portholes appear to be optional on E8As.
Going from E8A to E9A, the upper headlight gasket also changed from thick rubber to thin metal. This was always what externally distinguished E8s from E9s.
This probably holds true for B units too.
* "metal" gasket per olde Diesel Spotter's Guide. Could actually be thinner rubber?
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Post by onequiknova on Aug 14, 2022 14:41:13 GMT -8
On an as built E8, the glass in all four port holes should be the same size. When looking at pics of UP E9's, (Which Rapido scanned), many of them have thinner frames and larger glass on the inner two portholes. I don't know if this was a UP modification, or built that way. Either way, it's wrong for any E8 I see in a quick image search. It looks like this "feature" has crept into rapido's tooling. The forward porthole on Rapido's model looks too small to my eye, but maybe it's just the really thick "glass" throwing things off. I'd have to see one in person. It appears that the center two portholes on all(??) E9As have a thinner "metal*" gasket, which exposes more glass than the older thick rubber gasket windows used on the E8As. The glass MAY even be bigger, can't tell, doubtful. The outer two portholes on E9As and some E8As are openable and use a thicker gasket like used on E8s. Opening portholes appear to be optional on E8As.
Going from E8A to E9A, the upper headlight gasket also changed from thick rubber to thin metal. This was always what externally distinguished E8s from E9s. This probably holds true for B units too. * "metal" gasket per olde Diesel Spotter's Guide. Could actually be thinner rubber?
After looking at more pictures of E9's I am begining to think the larger center portholes was on all of them. I knew about the headlight gasket being a spotting feature of the E9, but this is a new one to me. I first noticed the larger portholes when building my Rock Island 657 and 658, (E8s BTW, probably retrofitted), and noticed many of the ex UP Es had larger center portholes, which lead me to believe it was just a gasket change the UP did later in life. Evidently not. |
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Post by gevohogger on Aug 14, 2022 16:01:51 GMT -8
Did they use the right style of stainless grille on the side of the locomotive? Thinking back to when DA offered two styles - an early style and a late (F9/E9) style - the model in the photo looks like the latter.
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Post by onequiknova on Aug 14, 2022 16:24:25 GMT -8
Did they use the right style of stainless grille on the side of the locomotive? Thinking back to when DA offered two styles - an early style and a late (F9/E9) style - the model in the photo looks like the latter. Yes, the real 6905 had Farr grilles, so the model is correct in that regard. 6901 has what I believe are called fabricated grilles. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Aug 14, 2022 21:10:15 GMT -8
Do we really not have the technology to put a clear number board insert in these and put the numbers behind them? Presuming they could cast the insert thin enough it would look much better. Would have to make it out of the same thin plastic they make the case the locomotive is held in, inside the foam insert, with a backer piece that has the numerals.
That's the first thing that jumps out at me on these. I see the portholes are different sizes, too. Sand filler looks larger than it should be. Were I in need of one I could probably live with some of those things. Probably 75% of buyers won't care though.
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Post by markfj on Aug 15, 2022 3:25:36 GMT -8
^^^ Good catch on the opening for the sand fill hatch. It's definitely too large compared to the prototype.
Also, you can count me in the 75% club as I think despite the few issues we are finding, it is a very good model.
Thanks, Mark J.
Reading, PA
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Post by gevohogger on Aug 15, 2022 4:09:31 GMT -8
Would have to make it out of the same thin plastic they make the case the locomotive is held in, inside the foam insert, with a backer piece that has the numerals. Careful, now, people are going to think you're discussing the box (even though you're not). And we all know what a sensitive subject that can be. |
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Post by craigz on Aug 15, 2022 5:38:54 GMT -8
Observations on Rapido's Southern Railway E-8 preproduction model pictured above (Hopefully they will correct at least some of these items before production???)... The mounting brackets holding the air reservoirs to the roof are horrendous looking, yuck! Additionally there should be support brackets on the front and rear air piping. Another error they totally messed up on is the routing of the front air reservoir piping. It should be closer to the winterization hatch just like the rear piping routing. See markings on attached screenshot and pic below... Screenshoots above from Rapido News 155 Picture above from Frank Greene Also something looks off with the number board, don't think it's the gasket being black I think it's the size of the gasket as it looks oddly out of proportion and has too large of a bead/roll. And the opening portholes sashes/rings look to large and out of proportion as well. (If these are off they will be wrong on all the production models!) I really hope they do a better job with the air reservoir piping in production, it looks real sloppy here... Screenshoot above from Rapido News 155 Picture above by Nick Henderson In addition the MU hoses bracket looks flat on the pilot and not angled off of it so the hoses are hanging in a straight line across the front of loco per the prototype (Very prominent miss)... Screenshoot above from Rapido News 155 Picture above from TommyLaStella Some extremely visible and important details that appear wrong and are very obvious are the number boards and porthole rings. Also several detail specific details are inaccurate air reservoir mounting brackets, lack of flag holders, lack of spark arrestors on exhaust stacks, lack of mirrors and the size/shape of the eyebrow handrails over cab windows. (I had shared all of the above detail specifics and observations with them earlier this year) Overall a good effort but still not as impressive as I thought Rapido was promising to produce, looks more like a Walthers production level effort. (Sorry but not sorry Rapido) My Walthers E-8's nose contours are not looking as bad as they did before! This project launch seems to have been to big and to much at one time to be a home run. I think they tried to release to many unique versions at one time, there were plenty of railroads with "standard" E-8's that would have allowed them to prefect it before adding detail specific complications. Best Regards, Rahl I've been looking at the photos and keep finding something wonky about the cab with too much distance between the cab window and cab door. The two Southern side views got it for me - the prototype's cab windows are rectangular. The model's are square or nearly so. That throws off the distance between the cab windows and the door. The more I look at this E unit the less satisfied I am with it. |
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Post by Baikal on Aug 15, 2022 6:26:56 GMT -8
^^^ Good catch on the opening for the sand fill hatch. It's definitely too large compared to the prototype. Also, you can count me in the 75% club as I think despite the few issues we are finding, it is a very good model. Thanks, Mark J. Reading, PA
Where is this 75% cult club number from? How exactly is this a very good model?
When you include the high price (the one thing where Rapido is the leader), I'm not seeing much value. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 15, 2022 6:54:26 GMT -8
 Ed |
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Post by Baikal on Aug 15, 2022 7:41:22 GMT -8
Ed
Can not un-see that forward porthole. For the sake of accuracy, Rapido should have laser-scanned the old AHM model. All 8 portholes should be the same except the hinges on the outboard ones.
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Post by nsc39d8 on Aug 15, 2022 7:53:58 GMT -8
I have tred to hold off on comment about this model. However I do see a lot of the items everyone has mentioned. I do model the Southern but I model more toward merger in 1982, so I did not need an E8. I will settle with my two Genesis FP7's. Yes the air piping is wrong and I think it is wrong on both the front and back pipe between sides. I had not noticed the sand fill nor the porthole windows but I think they are off. I really don't think anyone has gotten the number boards right on an E8 yet. Southern did have a unique way of mounting the front MU hose on a manifold that remained straight and not curved like the pilot. As for the cab window which was just pointed out it should be the same as any other F or E. I think this model the window does not extend back enough to the cab door. Also the gold leaf stripe looks to be off in placement where it turns to go across the nose below the wind shields. It also appears to be nearly straight across the nose and following the contours below the windshield. While this unit is in black the paint lines should be the same. www.rr-fallenflags.org/sout/sou6913.jpgOne thing no one has mentioned is the spark arrestors are not present. As for the grilles Southern's E8 were bought in separate orders. First were in the 2900 series and later in the general renumbering in 1970' all were placed in the 6900 series. So photo's are best to see if each unit is correct. |
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Post by middledivision on Aug 15, 2022 11:18:11 GMT -8
Man, those grabs are thick.
And don't hold your breathe waiting for them to correct any "mistakes".
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Post by onequiknova on Aug 15, 2022 16:14:15 GMT -8
I surely thought a speed recorder on every axle on the Southern unit was a factory mistake. Turns out it's correct. I can't say I've seen that on an E unit before.
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Post by Mr. Trainiac on Aug 15, 2022 18:05:45 GMT -8
I surely thought a speed recorder on every axle on the Southern unit was a factory mistake. Turns out it's correct. I can't say I've seen that on an E unit before. They probably aren't speed recorders, it's most likely a wheelslip control system. I guess it's still technically measuring the speed, but not for a cab readout. If the wheels are spinning at different speeds, or one traction motor is faster than the others, the control system knows it's slipping. Here's a similar setup on a Burlington U30C: archive.trainpix.com/BN/GE/U30C/890.HTM |
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