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Post by riogrande on Jan 30, 2022 12:25:49 GMT -8
As Mark noted above, the artwork seems to show the large herald GP30 (e.g. #3014) with the older style plow with the notches cut out of the upper outside corners good for the 60's and 70's. It would be helpful to know what is what for ordering purposes.
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Post by wagnersteve on Jan 30, 2022 13:32:29 GMT -8
I'll keep this quick because I need to do some work useful to others in my family.
I was especially glad to see the announcement of the forthcoming GP30 models for two reasons:
1) If they sell well, Scale Trains will likely make some in liveries that I would find very tempting: B&O, in the as built livery with the "Sunburst" on the nose; Soo Line and Milwaukee Road because of their trucks from older Alco locos, even though crews didn't like those much, and because of the eventual connection with the D&H after CP bought that railroad; Nickel Plate Road, because they wore end stripes reminding me of the D& H when I was an undergraduate in Ohio and got into Cleveland a few times; and possibly Reading, which got the first GP30's.
2) None of those schemes is in the first run, and other items are higher on my priority list. One thing I want to do before this day ends is to take advantage of a special sale by Minitrix to order at least one more of their fine unpainted figures.
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Post by lvrr325 on Jan 30, 2022 16:18:12 GMT -8
I think Reading are a different phase and different cab, not that they might not do it eventually. Factory painted with numbers that don't duplicate existing models would probably sell. The run Walthers did with 5500 series numbers a couple years ago sold poorly; one vendor dumped his on eBay with some of the DC models selling for $60 or so.
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Post by fishbelly on Jan 30, 2022 19:35:11 GMT -8
I believe READING are phase I.
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Post by markfj on Jan 31, 2022 4:29:07 GMT -8
The Reading GP30s where a phase 1a so they had the shorter cab width on the conductor’s side. As a Reading fan, I don’t find the early GP30 paint scheme as appealing as the later version where the yellow sill was painted green. It’s odd how just a minor change in the paint can have such a big impact, but that’s how I see it.   Also as far as I know the Reading units all had the single seam cab roof. I guess this was an early production thing that was later changed to the multi-panel/seam roof design.  Link to page with GP30 phases: EMD's GP30 - Original OwnersThanks, Mark J. Reading, PA |
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Post by wagnersteve on Jan 31, 2022 6:34:36 GMT -8
Were at least some of the early B&O GP30's also Phase 1 like the Reading's. If my memory is correct they may have been. My first encounter with them was definitely in August 1963.
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Post by fishbelly on Jan 31, 2022 7:00:15 GMT -8
The early cabs had reinforcing ribs stamped into them too. Your photo example does not show them and it does not even show the center overlap joint either. Your photo is not clear enough to show it all. The difference between the phase I cab roof and the phase II cab roof is the phase I cab roof has the reinforcing ribs running parallel with the angle of the cab rather than as on the phase II roof where the reinforcing ribs run parallel with the center overlap joint.
The reinforcing ribs are approximately 3/8" to 1/2" wide. They are rounded and stick up approximately 1/4" maybe. They do not run all the way to exactly the front to back of the cab. They stop about 1" from each end and taper down. There are two on each side of the center overlap joint. The center overlap joint is 2.5" wide.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that on one of my 1.44 floppy disks I still have photos of the phase I roof. A&C had two phase I's and two phase II's and they allowed me to get on top of them to take pictures. That was back around 2000 or 2001 when my camera took a 1.44 floppy disk. I still have a few disks in my collection and hoping the photos are there. I just need to get myself a 1.44 floppy drive.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jan 31, 2022 7:25:09 GMT -8
Were at least some of the early B&O GP30's also Phase 1 like the Reading's. If my memory is correct they may have been. My first encounter with them was definitely in August 1963. Says here (in what is a very useful page): www.trainweb.org/jaydeet/rosters.htmthat all the B&O GP30's were phase Ic1. and were built 10/62-1/63. Note also that two sizes of radiator intake grilles are mentioned in the phase descriptions. Ed |
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Post by carrman on Jan 31, 2022 9:11:51 GMT -8
The early cabs had reinforcing ribs stamped into them too. Your photo example does not show them and it does not even show the center overlap joint either. Your photo is not clear enough to show it all. The difference between the phase I cab roof and the phase II cab roof is the phase I cab roof has the reinforcing ribs running parallel with the angle of the cab rather than as on the phase II roof where the reinforcing ribs run parallel with the center overlap joint. The reinforcing ribs are approximately 3/8" to 1/2" wide. They are rounded and stick up approximately 1/4" maybe. They do not run all the way to exactly the front to back of the cab. They stop about 1" from each end and taper down. There are two on each side of the center overlap joint. The center overlap joint is 2.5" wide. I am keeping my fingers crossed that on one of my 1.44 floppy disks I still have photos of the phase I roof. A&C had two phase I's and two phase II's and they allowed me to get on top of them to take pictures. That was back around 2000 or 2001 when my camera took a 1.44 floppy disk. I still have a few disks in my collection and hoping the photos are there. I just need to get myself a 1.44 floppy drive. Let me know if you can't find them. 3005 is here a few miles away and belings to a friend of mine. He took roof pics for me a few years back. |
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sd40x
New Member
Posts: 39
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Post by sd40x on Jan 31, 2022 9:32:49 GMT -8
It looks like those Reading units had short fuel tanks. That means they were showing off some fish belly also. If the frame is represented well (I can kinda see the fish belly frame under the light colored UP units), then I don’t see why a Kato GP35 shell can’t be modified to sit on the Scale trains frame.
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Post by lvrr325 on Jan 31, 2022 9:40:27 GMT -8
It looks like those Reading units had short fuel tanks. That means they were showing off some fish belly also. If the frame is represented well (I can kinda see the fish belly frame under the light colored UP units), then I don’t see why a Kato GP35 shell can’t be modified to sit on the Scale trains frame. Plus once you finish a couple ST will announce they're doing a GP35 as well. |
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sd40x
New Member
Posts: 39
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Post by sd40x on Jan 31, 2022 9:51:21 GMT -8
“Plus once you finish a couple ST will announce they're doing a GP35 as well.”
Lol, I actually hope that comes true!
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Post by csx3305 on Jan 31, 2022 9:54:47 GMT -8
GP35 will probably be in ex-MTH format.
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Post by markfj on Jan 31, 2022 10:24:53 GMT -8
The early cabs had reinforcing ribs stamped into them too. Your photo example does not show them and it does not even show the center overlap joint either. Your photo is not clear enough to show it all. The difference between the phase I cab roof and the phase II cab roof is the phase I cab roof has the reinforcing ribs running parallel with the angle of the cab rather than as on the phase II roof where the reinforcing ribs run parallel with the center overlap joint. The reinforcing ribs are approximately 3/8" to 1/2" wide. They are rounded and stick up approximately 1/4" maybe. They do not run all the way to exactly the front to back of the cab. They stop about 1" from each end and taper down. There are two on each side of the center overlap joint. The center overlap joint is 2.5" wide. I am keeping my fingers crossed that on one of my 1.44 floppy disks I still have photos of the phase I roof. A&C had two phase I's and two phase II's and they allowed me to get on top of them to take pictures. That was back around 2000 or 2001 when my camera took a 1.44 floppy disk. I still have a few disks in my collection and hoping the photos are there. I just need to get myself a 1.44 floppy drive. It’s really hard to find a good clear photo of the roof.  This photo of PRR 2198 that I think was posted here some time ago shows the roof of the phase 2. I would image that after a couple repaints, dirt build up, or surface rust, the ribs on either design would be really hard to see.  Maybe next time I get to Hamburg I’ll see if they will let me climb up on 5513 and snap a photo of the roof. 5513 is undergoing some heavy cosmetic repairs and I know they just fixed a leak at one of the roof seams last summer. It was a tiny crack, but surprising let in "a lot" of water that caused significant rust damage to the cab. Thanks, Mark J. Reading, PA |
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Post by markfj on Jan 31, 2022 11:48:31 GMT -8
A bit of a better shot of a phase 2 roof; PRR 2245 (photo from Steven Allen collection on Pinterest).   |
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Post by middledivision on Jan 31, 2022 13:37:49 GMT -8
GP35 will probably be in ex-MTH format. Doubt that. The MTH stuff is headed to the Operator line. |
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Post by csx3305 on Jan 31, 2022 13:47:34 GMT -8
They’ve heavily implied, if not outright said, that the Operator line is not meeting expectations and will be undergoing changes soon.
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Post by grabirons on Jan 31, 2022 15:15:57 GMT -8
They’ve heavily implied, if not outright said, that the Operator line is not meeting expectations and will be undergoing changes soon. Well that explains why they haven't done any rbls for two years. What's gonna happen with it? For some manufacturers, operator type lines do pretty well, then again other manufacturers do at least one run of a given body style once a year if popular enough. |
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Post by cera2254 on Jan 31, 2022 15:26:12 GMT -8
Shane has stated that the operator locomotives do not sell well at all. The operator freight cars however have sold well.
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Post by mvlandsw on Jan 31, 2022 18:25:12 GMT -8
Putting the dumbed down decoders in them doesn't help. After I tried programing a friend's operator loco I know I won't buy any. I wouldn't mind adding details but I'm not going to change the electronics.
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Post by wmcbride on Jan 31, 2022 23:23:52 GMT -8
t would also help if ST had the upgrade packages in stock for the Operator diesels.
Bill McBride
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Post by ScaleTrains.com on Feb 2, 2022 5:42:33 GMT -8
Strangely the Rio Grande version is listed as late 80's to late 90's. I'm going to have to figure out what features date the as such and what needs to be done to backdate them to the first 20 years of their operation. There are actually 60s and 70s versions. The smaller lettering is supposed to represent that timeframe. There's a typo on our website and we're aware of it. We wanted to provide some further clarification to this thread. Our prior comments about the era is incorrect. We were referencing the build date. We inadvertently listed their build date on our website as 1/2-1996, which is obviously way off for a Rio Grande GP30. The prototypes were actually built between 1-2/63, as Phase Id. We corrected this error on the date of this posting, February 1st. While that particular Rio Grande paint scheme (Small Flying Lettering) certainly reflects the 1960s, the various other details that we have incorporated into the model and outlined in the product description bullet points ... horns, plows, fans, Gyralites or Mars lights, antennas, axle bearing sets, re-rail frogs, etc ... make the models as they would have appeared in the late 80s throughout the 1990s, during the combined DRGW/SP system, aka "Anschutz Era", years. Rest assured, we plan to offer true "as-delivered" Rio Grande versions in the future for modelers of that era. -Drayton |
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Post by TBird1958 on Feb 2, 2022 7:43:44 GMT -8
There are actually 60s and 70s versions. The smaller lettering is supposed to represent that timeframe. There's a typo on our website and we're aware of it. We wanted to provide some further clarification to this thread. Our prior comments about the era is incorrect. We were referencing the build date. We inadvertently listed their build date on our website as 1/2-1996, which is obviously way off for a Rio Grande GP30. The prototypes were actually built between 1-2/63, as Phase Id. We corrected this error on the date of this posting, February 1st. While that particular Rio Grande paint scheme (Small Flying Lettering) certainly reflects the 1960s, the various other details that we have incorporated into the model and outlined in the product description bullet points ... horns, plows, fans, Gyralites or Mars lights, antennas, axle bearing sets, re-rail frogs, etc ... make the models as they would have appeared in the late 80s throughout the 1990s, during the combined DRGW/SP system, aka "Anschutz Era", years. Rest assured, we plan to offer true "as-delivered" Rio Grande versions in the future for modelers of that era. -Drayton Which is disappointing, why not offer the "as delivered" ones first? Yeah, I can back date them to a reasonable degree, but really don't feel like taking apart 200.00 locos to re detail them. So I'm out. |
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Post by nsc39d8 on Feb 2, 2022 8:42:22 GMT -8
Don't feel bad. While I could use one of the N&W road numbers I am not going is either. But no Southern in the first run either and Southern owned more GP30's than N&W did.
I really want a correct NKP unit painted in N&W with the horizontal headlight and nose recessed bell.
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Post by unittrain on Feb 2, 2022 8:53:16 GMT -8
I need Pennsy units so I'm happy they held back the B&O and C&O units for later. But yeah ST could have offered more as delivered units then they did on this run but it helps me budget wise in this case by I realize how this frustrating to other modelers. ST has always seemed to cater more to late 80s and beyond to a degree.
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Post by cera2254 on Feb 2, 2022 9:12:01 GMT -8
Don't feel bad. While I could use one of the N&W road numbers I am not going is either. But no Southern in the first run either and Southern owned more GP30's than N&W did. I really want a correct NKP unit painted in N&W with the horizontal headlight and nose recessed bell. It seems like ST doesn’t offer Southern in first releases, and I wonder if part of their reasoning on this was that I think the southern SD45s were recently released? I too would be down for the ex NKP units in blue. |
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Post by nsc39d8 on Feb 2, 2022 9:21:06 GMT -8
It seems like ST doesn’t offer Southern in first releases, and I wonder if part of their reasoning on this was that I think the southern SD45s were recently released? I too would be down for the ex NKP units in blue. The Southern SD45 didn't come until the third run, if I remember correctly. Now they are sold out with sound and less than five in one road number in DCC ready. Can't remember if any of the NKP units got blue N&W paint, going to look. |
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Feb 2, 2022 10:05:47 GMT -8
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Post by sgoti on Feb 2, 2022 10:09:30 GMT -8
We wanted to provide some further clarification to this thread. Our prior comments about the era is incorrect. We were referencing the build date. We inadvertently listed their build date on our website as 1/2-1996, which is obviously way off for a Rio Grande GP30. The prototypes were actually built between 1-2/63, as Phase Id. We corrected this error on the date of this posting, February 1st. While that particular Rio Grande paint scheme (Small Flying Lettering) certainly reflects the 1960s, the various other details that we have incorporated into the model and outlined in the product description bullet points ... horns, plows, fans, Gyralites or Mars lights, antennas, axle bearing sets, re-rail frogs, etc ... make the models as they would have appeared in the late 80s throughout the 1990s, during the combined DRGW/SP system, aka "Anschutz Era", years. Rest assured, we plan to offer true "as-delivered" Rio Grande versions in the future for modelers of that era. -Drayton Which is disappointing, why not offer the "as delivered" ones first? Yeah, I can back date them to a reasonable degree, but really don't feel like taking apart 200.00 locos to re detail them. So I'm out. Wow... You know, it's NOT like you're having to deal with blanked out class lights, or blanked nose signal lights here. All of you clamoring for "as delivered"- That means no plow and equipped with footboards. Or do you mean post-1965 up, where they were plow-equipped and pretty much the same from then on (except for the ones that got plows from GP7s)? With the exception of the rerail frog, 3018 and 3023 would work for post-1965. OK the nose light might be a Gyralite instead of Mars, but I haven't looked that close. I find it funny that in all of this, ya'll are missing the biggest deal-breaker: THE ACI LABELS ARE WRONG! Oh, the horrors! It even looks like they might have used the same ACI label across all models! Good golly, how will my scale yardmasters ever tell these apart? |
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Post by sd80mac on Feb 2, 2022 11:16:13 GMT -8
Of course they're not going to do all of 100% gang-buster's road names in the first run. They have to save some schemes that they know will be hot sellers for later runs, too. The SD38-2 announcement was a good example of this.
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This photo of PRR 2198 that I think was posted here some time ago shows the roof of the phase 2. I would image that after a couple repaints, dirt build up, or surface rust, the ribs on either design would be really hard to see. 
