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Post by fishbelly on May 11, 2023 18:31:18 GMT -8
First off, this is not a bashfest of Rapido. Just some observations for conversation. Nothing I say will change what Rapido does or even fixes.
1. Trucks are a little lifeless. No casting marks and the big problem with them is the spring hanger should have a little bit of an angle to it coming off the side frame from the top to where it U's under the spring pack. Kato still has the best looking blomberg truck. 1990's technology and nobody can recreate it. Very disappointing. I know it is just a small piece of un-noticed detail. It does give the truck character.
2. No undecs. Deal breaker. I will stay with my undecorated Atlas models.
3. Photo etch for the footboards is wrong. There should not be a continuous hole pattern all the way across the top of the step. There should be a noticeable break where the mounting bolt holes are.
4. No undecs. Deal breaker. I will stay with my undecorated Atlas models.
5. Radiator and dynamic brake fan base ring is really thick. I know they can do better than that. With all the fine detail they do, they could tool a thin base flange.
6. No undecs. Deal breaker. I will stay with my undecorated Atlas models.
7. Could be just the camera angle or something. The height of the inertial filter hatch looks a little suspect. I do not believe the top should be on the same plane as the top of the PAF box. I would have to see one up close to confirm or deny this observation.
8. No undecs. Deal breaker. I will stay with my undecorated Atlas models.
Other than those issues, I cannot really visually see anything else wrong with it. It looks like a GP38 and at least one of the photos of the model looks like it has a straight handrail and stanchion set. Even if Rapido offered undecs, I would not buy one simply because of the truck issues. Mainly the spring hanger. You cannot simply fix that unless you have the ability to cut a new mold to have the spring offset corrected. And while you are at it, add the casting marks. All the other issues I could easily fix. At least with the Atlas model I can install Athearn side frames to get a better look to the model.
I understand it is probably to late to fix the truck issue. Boy if they could. It would be a really nice model to have. Maybe. I do not know how they run. Running issues can be fixed by gutting them and installing a Kato motor. I know, why should "we" have to fix the model and I agree. I have come to the conclusion that the consumer does not amount to a hill of beans and if it is a model we want, warts and all, then we live with what they offer or we just do not buy it or buy the alternative. I choose to buy the alternative this time.
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Post by locochris on May 11, 2023 19:10:02 GMT -8
Since all we've seen are pre-production samples there's a chance they've already fixed some of those issues. Let's hope so at least. They just announced the order deadline is July 15th so I imagine they'll be releasing a GP38 video soon.
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Post by cemr5396 on May 11, 2023 19:10:37 GMT -8
I am just surprised they appear to have actually moved the class lights to the right spot, on the initial samples they were practically on the corner where the hood end meets the sides. That is the first time in a while I can think of they actually fixed a major tooling mistake instead making BS excuses. Too bad we CN modelers couldn't get that on the GP9RM. It's still just as messed up as when the first samples came out and I can't see that changing.
I agree that the trucks look like crap. Maybe they would look better painted black instead of silver like on the Santa Fe ones but even that only makes a small difference.
I don't need a Geep 38 on my roster (Dash-2s are a whole other story...) so I won't be getting one. I just wish they would quit phoning it in on their models. They are capable of doing better, they are just choosing not to.
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Post by cpr4200 on May 11, 2023 20:10:29 GMT -8
Here's a good photo of a Frisco GP38 that shows the paper air filter housing is indeed a little taller than the inertial hatch. As to the trucks, does Rapido keep reinventing the wheel like they do with the EMD bulldog nose? They've done Blomberg B's on their F units (albeit marked Dofasco (?) instead of LFM and the CN GP9's will have them too.
Just saw the GP38 pix in the Rapido announcement. Nice wire grab irons, but no means of attachment (nbw, etc). And yeah, the trucks are blah.
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Post by hudsonyard on May 11, 2023 20:50:19 GMT -8
Not particularly in the market for GP38s, the atlas ones I purchased nearly 20 years ago continue to fit my needs just fine.
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Post by nstophat on May 12, 2023 3:05:25 GMT -8
Here's a good photo of a Frisco GP38 that shows the paper air filter housing is indeed a little taller than the inertial hatch. As to the trucks, does Rapido keep reinventing the wheel like they do with the EMD bulldog nose? They've done Blomberg B's on their F units (albeit marked Dofasco (?) instead of LFM and the CN GP9's will have them too.
Just saw the GP38 pix in the Rapido announcement. Nice wire grab irons, but no means of attachment (nbw, etc). And yeah, the trucks are blah.
This reminds me of a Van Halen song..... |
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Post by markfj on May 12, 2023 3:28:07 GMT -8
A few photos from the initial announcement. These many not show any corrections Rapido made, but are still a good reference.     I don't see any easy way to correct the issues with the truck side frames. It looks like a totally new design since they decided to do some traction motor details to the bottom of the gear case, so swapping in another brand's side frames will probably be very difficult. Overall the issues with this model collectively aren't as noticeable as the "cannon" headlight housing on their E8. That was the deal breaker for me on that model. Thanks Mark |
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Post by riogrande on May 12, 2023 3:47:58 GMT -8
I won't be able to use a GP38, but I'm watching this because apparently Rapido is following up with a GP40 which I am interested in. But there may be other GP40 options coming too, including the already announced Class One Models.
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 12, 2023 5:13:10 GMT -8
Nice wire grab irons, but no means of attachment (nbw, etc). I see "nbw"s in the photos above. Ed |
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Post by grahamline on May 12, 2023 5:23:14 GMT -8
As a side note, what is the current accuracy appraisal of the push-on plastic sideframes Athearn introduced for the Blomberg trucks introduced decades ago in "B" and "M" versions? I still have a few sets in the parts box.
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Post by riogrande on May 12, 2023 5:32:08 GMT -8
As a side note, what is the current accuracy appraisal of the push-on plastic sideframes Athearn introduced for the Blomberg trucks introduced decades ago in "B" and "M" versions? I still have a few sets in the parts box. I'm no expert but I remember reading articles years ago about the CAD design and implementation of the "newer" Athearn Blomberg side frames when they replaced the old metal ones. They were reportedely very accurate. Engineering drawings were shown as well. I found this piece that seems to echo that (see quotes below): www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~shadow/prr-diesels/sideframes/b.html |
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Post by wagnersteve on May 12, 2023 6:23:22 GMT -8
May 12, about 10:23 a.m., EDT
Jim Fitch, I wasn't aware of One Car Model Works' having announced a forthcoming HO GP40 and haven't been able to find anything about it on that firm's website. Where and how did you learn about this?
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Post by riogrande on May 12, 2023 6:29:38 GMT -8
May 12, about 10:23 a.m., EDT Jim Fitch, I wasn't aware of One Car Model Works' having announced a forthcoming HO GP40 and haven't been able to find anything about it on that firm's website. Where and how did you learn about this? the website is ClassOneModelworks. classonemodelworks.com/Here is a YouTube link to the announcement: |
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Post by wagnersteve on May 12, 2023 6:32:19 GMT -8
May 12, about t 10:30 a.m., EDT
nstophat, which Van Halen song? (The most recent group whose repertoire I know fairly well was Creedence Clearwater Revival, and I was quite surprised to learn that its lead singer wasn't of sub-Saharan African ancestry!)
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Post by cpr4200 on May 12, 2023 7:42:34 GMT -8
Nice wire grab irons, but no means of attachment (nbw, etc). I see "nbw"s in the photos above. Ed Yep, I see 'em now. Mea culpa. |
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Post by markfj on May 12, 2023 7:57:36 GMT -8
May 12, about 10:23 a.m., EDT Jim Fitch, I wasn't aware of One Car Model Works' having announced a forthcoming HO GP40 and haven't been able to find anything about it on that firm's website. Where and how did you learn about this? the website is ClassOneModelworks. classonemodelworks.com/Here is a YouTube link to the announcement: Fingers crossed that COMW does as good a job on the GP40 as they did with their flatcars. I'm surprised that Athearn has yet to release the GP38 or 40 in the Genesis line. Mark |
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ictom
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Post by ictom on May 12, 2023 11:51:52 GMT -8
I won't be able to use a GP38, but I'm watching this because apparently Rapido is following up with a GP40 which I am interested in. But there may be other GP40 options coming too, including the already announced Class One Models. I swear - we're all being bamboozled by the Chinese factories and the US brokers. There's some sort of incestuous connection among all the Chinese factories. It's like they take their tooling from one building to another, add some things here, take some other things away there. I don't know anything about their operation except what I've seen in youtube videos, but it's like they do the design for a locomotive, then shop it around to the US "brokers." Modern injection molding is full of "inserts." They probably do the discriminating differences with all of those. At the very least, they shop the 3D CAD model around. I'm convinced of that. Turn off a few detail layers here and there and they save $$tons of money by having another US "broker" do a version, too. It's like the movies. Once they invest the time and labor to create the CGI for a neat monster, they shop that data set around to other movie makers. The next thing you know, you see 3 or 4 movies with the same creature or something similar. |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 12, 2023 18:03:20 GMT -8
I swear - we're all being bamboozled by the Chinese factories and the US brokers. There's some sort of incestuous connection among all the Chinese factories. It's like they take their tooling from one building to another, add some things here, take some other things away there. I don't know anything about their operation except what I've seen in youtube videos, but it's like they do the design for a locomotive, then shop it around to the US "brokers." Modern injection molding is full of "inserts." They probably do the discriminating differences with all of those. At the very least, they shop the 3D CAD model around. I'm convinced of that. Turn off a few detail layers here and there and they save $$tons of money by having another US "broker" do a version, too. It's like the movies. Once they invest the time and labor to create the CGI for a neat monster, they shop that data set around to other movie makers. The next thing you know, you see 3 or 4 movies with the same creature or something similar. Um.. no. That's not at all how it works. Everyone designs their own, with info (sometimes the complete CAD) provided from this side of the Pac. (read: the US of A). Each company decides what they'd like to do based on their perception of what will make them money.. or what their personal interest desires.
As for the Rapido geep 38 or the 40.. eh. We've got decent, better priced options out there, with undecs available.
The fans look weird, very "heavy". They looked and are weird on the F40 and the F59, so this is following suit.
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joppasub
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Retired; Now a full time modeler
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Post by joppasub on May 12, 2023 18:46:10 GMT -8
It would be nice to have new models surpass the 20 year old tooling…imo.
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Post by lars on May 13, 2023 2:46:42 GMT -8
Fingers crossed that COMW does as good a job on the GP40 as they did with their flatcars. I'm surprised that Athearn has yet to release the GP38 or 40 in the Genesis line. Mark It was their’s to lose. They are at least 75% of the way there with their existing parts bins. |
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Post by bcrmlw on May 13, 2023 6:18:23 GMT -8
I am just surprised they appear to have actually moved the class lights to the right spot, on the initial samples they were practically on the corner where the hood end meets the sides. That is the first time in a while I can think of they actually fixed a major tooling mistake instead making BS excuses. Too bad we CN modelers couldn't get that on the GP9RM. It's still just as messed up as when the first samples came out and I can't see that changing. I agree that the trucks look like crap. Maybe they would look better painted black instead of silver like on the Santa Fe ones but even that only makes a small difference. I don't need a Geep 38 on my roster (Dash-2s are a whole other story...) so I won't be getting one. I just wish they would quit phoning it in on their models. They are capable of doing better, they are just choosing not to. On a recent podcast Jason Shron stated the GP9RM pre orders have been very, very high. Since money talks I can’t see any tooling changes happening. Sad but I’m sure there will be the usual excuses and whining about people being mean to them after the model is released. -Trevor |
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ictom
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Post by ictom on May 13, 2023 6:22:13 GMT -8
I swear - we're all being bamboozled by the Chinese factories and the US brokers. There's some sort of incestuous connection among all the Chinese factories. It's like they take their tooling from one building to another, add some things here, take some other things away there. I don't know anything about their operation except what I've seen in youtube videos, but it's like they do the design for a locomotive, then shop it around to the US "brokers." Modern injection molding is full of "inserts." They probably do the discriminating differences with all of those. At the very least, they shop the 3D CAD model around. I'm convinced of that. Turn off a few detail layers here and there and they save $$tons of money by having another US "broker" do a version, too. It's like the movies. Once they invest the time and labor to create the CGI for a neat monster, they shop that data set around to other movie makers. The next thing you know, you see 3 or 4 movies with the same creature or something similar. Um.. no. That's not at all how it works. Everyone designs their own, with info (sometimes the complete CAD) provided from this side of the Pac. (read: the US of A). Each company decides what they'd like to do based on their perception of what will make them money.. or what their personal interest desires.
As for the Rapido geep 38 or the 40.. eh. We've got decent, better priced options out there, with undecs available.
The fans look weird, very "heavy". They looked and are weird on the F40 and the F59, so this is following suit.
It's comforting to believe that, but I don't think it's true in most cases. I'm convinced the Chinese shop the designs. There's just too many instances of concurrent models. If nothing else, they make strong suggestions to the brokers over here about what models to offer next and which ones would require the least in costs. Of course, there are exceptions. I don't believe working from scratch for every model is the prevailing method, however. |
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Post by cemr5396 on May 13, 2023 6:48:27 GMT -8
On a recent podcast Jason Shron stated the GP9RM pre orders have been very, very high. Of course they are, it's the freaking GP9RM. Every CN modeler from the late 80s to present day needs them, they are EVERYWHERE. Not to mention all the shortlines that have them (not making them in any shortline schemes and only two CN ones was idiotic too, but I digress). I can't bring myself to get one with all the issues they have, I would never be able to overlook all the warts. It's really too bad we (the Canadian modelers) were never able to convince Athearn to do them in Genesis. Now that a perceived 'high quality' manufacturer has made them, they never will. Agreed about the 'money talks' and the whining. |
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Post by cemr5396 on May 13, 2023 6:54:40 GMT -8
Um.. no. That's not at all how it works. Everyone designs their own, with info (sometimes the complete CAD) provided from this side of the Pac. (read: the US of A). Each company decides what they'd like to do based on their perception of what will make them money.. or what their personal interest desires.
As for the Rapido geep 38 or the 40.. eh. We've got decent, better priced options out there, with undecs available.
The fans look weird, very "heavy". They looked and are weird on the F40 and the F59, so this is following suit.
It's comforting to believe that, but I don't think it's true in most cases. I'm convinced the Chinese shop the designs. There's just too many instances of concurrent models. If nothing else, they make strong suggestions to the brokers over here about what models to offer next and which ones would require the least in costs. Of course, there are exceptions. I don't believe working from scratch for every model is the prevailing method, however. Other than instances where it is really obvious that certain things everyone would want to make a model of, (SD40-2s, F units) how many things are out there that are made by more than one company where one of those companies isn't Scale Trains? I'm not outright saying they are out here trying to screw everyone else by making the same models as them, but it makes you wonder when it happens over and over again. Especially when Scale Trains is often the second one in. Either it's intentional, or they are completely in their own world and not talking to anyone else about what may or may not be coming out soon |
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Post by sd80mac on May 13, 2023 9:12:03 GMT -8
Um.. no. That's not at all how it works. Everyone designs their own, with info (sometimes the complete CAD) provided from this side of the Pac. (read: the US of A). Each company decides what they'd like to do based on their perception of what will make them money.. or what their personal interest desires.
As for the Rapido geep 38 or the 40.. eh. We've got decent, better priced options out there, with undecs available.
The fans look weird, very "heavy". They looked and are weird on the F40 and the F59, so this is following suit.
It's comforting to believe that, but I don't think it's true in most cases. I'm convinced the Chinese shop the designs. There's just too many instances of concurrent models. If nothing else, they make strong suggestions to the brokers over here about what models to offer next and which ones would require the least in costs. Of course, there are exceptions. I don't believe working from scratch for every model is the prevailing method, however. Boy I just gotta say, that is not true at all. Not even a little bit. Sorry to burst your conspiracy bubble! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2023 9:55:26 GMT -8
I have worked for a manufacturer and I know for a fact who does the cad for one now.
They do NOT shop models around. Since research is actually a huge part of it one would NEVER share the fruits of that research with a competitor. Also they would NEVER share cad drawings with a competitor.
The ONLY collusion that occurs is when some companies share "hey dont make that because we are already cutting the tooling for it". Which Atlas has been kind and decent enough to do. Saved other company time and money.
There was a time when unscrupulous people in southeast asia would produce extra copies of brass models designed by one company and market those copied models all over asia and europe. Since then American companies have learned to be much more careful.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 13, 2023 10:51:51 GMT -8
It's comforting to believe that, but I don't think it's true in most cases. I'm convinced the Chinese shop the designs. There's just too many instances of concurrent models. If nothing else, they make strong suggestions to the brokers over here about what models to offer next and which ones would require the least in costs. Of course, there are exceptions. I don't believe working from scratch for every model is the prevailing method, however. The concurrent models are by selection of those thinking "we can do it better" If you've never worked for or with a manufacturer (which it's rather apparent from you comment you haven't), you'd know that each design belongs to that company and is covered by various IP laws. In some cases, the relationships can prevail and information can be shared as to not cut into your competitor's market. The Dash-9 for example; two separate companies can work on designing a project simultaneously over a period of a couple of years, and never know until the time of announcement.
The duplication is simply a "I'd like this variant (for my own layout)" or "an updated version would be awesome" and is in part based on sales perception from the previous models...and what they then go for at auction later on. Those designs and ideas from the North American based companies are then (in reverse to your thought process) shopped to various factories, which perform the manufacturing, in China - unless a relationship already exists with a set of said factories. And, yes, some use more than one factory.
Sorry, but the conjecture you present really has no basis in reality.
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Post by Baikal on May 13, 2023 12:52:20 GMT -8
I won't be able to use a GP38, but I'm watching this because apparently Rapido is following up with a GP40 which I am interested in. But there may be other GP40 options coming too, including the already announced Class One Models. I swear - we're all being bamboozled by the Chinese factories and the US brokers. There's some sort of incestuous connection among all the Chinese factories. It's like they take their tooling from one building to another, add some things here, take some other things away there. I don't know anything about their operation except what I've seen in youtube videos, but it's like they do the design for a locomotive, then shop it around to the US "brokers." Modern injection molding is full of "inserts." They probably do the discriminating differences with all of those. At the very least, they shop the 3D CAD model around. I'm convinced of that. Turn off a few detail layers here and there and they save $$tons of money by having another US "broker" do a version, too. It's like the movies. Once they invest the time and labor to create the CGI for a neat monster, they shop that data set around to other movie makers. The next thing you know, you see 3 or 4 movies with the same creature or something similar.
Who are these shady "US brokers"? Names?
Do you really think the North American model development and sales are done in this order? 1) "Chinese factories" design models of North American prototypes on spec. 2) US brokers (aka middle-men) shop these designs around to various US & Canadian model companies, looking for the best deal. 3) A model company buys these Chinese designs and starts production in China. 4) Profit.
You're putting the cart before the horse.
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Post by 12bridge on May 13, 2023 13:09:52 GMT -8
So which casting mark should be done on the trucks? EMD? GSC? Blank? Dofasco? I don't think any of our engines have a matched pair..
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Post by Mr. Trainiac on May 13, 2023 14:45:48 GMT -8
So which casting mark should be done on the trucks? EMD? GSC? Blank? Dofasco? I don't think any of our engines have a matched pair.. yeah, it probably varies by locomotive and order number. There are a ton of variations on the Blomberg trucks, but if we are complaining about Rapido trucks, there should be something somewhere. I've seen trucks with the EMD logo on the center behind the swing hanger pin. If it has a Dofasco mark it's usually on the right side when facing the sideframe. Even if there isn't a foundry mark, usually there is a heat code somewhere. I've seen some ATSF units that have 'LFM' on the lefthand corner right where the sideframe starts to wrap around to the brake shoe hanger area. LFM is Locomotive Finished Materials in Atchison, Kansas, but I don't know if this company still exists. These guys may have been the ones to cast the first Blomberg trucks for the FT back in 1939. www.flickr.com/photos/emd111/16406267321/ |
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