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Post by fishbelly on May 30, 2023 16:07:21 GMT -8
Well, I was unaware of that since I have only purchased their older stuff in the red box and a few items in the black boxes. Thank you for the corrections.
What is glued on?
- Handrail pins glued in?
- Windows glued in?
- Fans glued on?
- Small detail parts glued on?
- Cabs glued to sub bases and hoods?
- Hoods glued to sill units?
- DB hatches glued to hoods?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 30, 2023 17:20:02 GMT -8
I haven't encountered glue on an Atlas loco. From the pile(s) I've owned and taken apart, they've all been Kato-esque (press-fit or friction).
Did they use glue on the new U30C ?
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Post by canrailfan on May 30, 2023 18:16:06 GMT -8
the sound on the unit in the video is absolute garbage too. And it's got the typical ESU problem of not being mixed properly, the horn is half the volume of the prime mover and sounds pathetic and quiet. I don't know why they seem incapable of getting that right. My factory sound equipped Genesis 38s would blow the pants off that thing. While Rapido uses Loksound V5 decoders they still insist on creating their own proprietary sound files. The quality is Rapido's responsibility, not ESU's. |
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Post by cemr5396 on May 30, 2023 18:37:52 GMT -8
the sound on the unit in the video is absolute garbage too. And it's got the typical ESU problem of not being mixed properly, the horn is half the volume of the prime mover and sounds pathetic and quiet. I don't know why they seem incapable of getting that right. My factory sound equipped Genesis 38s would blow the pants off that thing. While Rapido uses Loksound V5 decoders they still insist on creating their own proprietary sound files. The quality is Rapido's responsibility, not ESU's. they don't do that for everything, in fact on most of their recent models they have used stock ESU files. The only ones I know of that they recorded themselves are: - FP9 - GMD-1/SW1200 (they used the GMD-1 recording in the 1200) - FPA-4 - RDC - M420 And for the most part I have found Rapido's sound files to be about on par with ESU's stock files, or better in some cases. Their sound file in the FPA-4 is quite good, actually. It's got that ALCO bark to it for sure. The stock sound file on ESU's website seems lacking in comparison. The ESU fans love to blame Rapido for the quality whenever someone has a complaint about the sound in their units but MOST OF THE TIME they are using stock ESU files, and even when they aren't, at the end of the day it is still ESU who takes the actual recordings and makes them into a sound file. Rapido doesn't have any audio engineers on staff. So if the horn is 1/4 the volume that it should be in the mix, that is 100% on whoever the person is at ESU who created and mixed that sound file. |
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Post by wmcbride on May 30, 2023 18:53:16 GMT -8
Yep, the Rapido FPA-4 sound was very good.
Bill McBride
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Post by csxt8400 on May 30, 2023 23:39:59 GMT -8
Atlas has been cutting more corners or just flat screwing up more in recent memory, but I must agree with the paint and lettering being superb. It seems to me that Atlas had the best tank car/plastics/other private car graphics for years. If one can deal with the clunky coupler boxes, their older tank cars are still very good in terms of art and ubiquity. Walthers,Athearn, and Intermountain never put as much blood into their similar offerings.
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Post by gevohogger on May 31, 2023 3:45:41 GMT -8
Well, I was unaware of that since I have only purchased their older stuff in the red box and a few items in the black boxes. Thank you for the corrections. What is glued on? - Handrail pins glued in? - Windows glued in? - Fans glued on? - Small detail parts glued on? - Cabs glued to sub bases and hoods? - Hoods glued to sill units? - DB hatches glued to hoods? I believe they are, yes, on painted units. Many of those items.
Undecorateds however are totally un-glued.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2023 8:29:17 GMT -8
Of all the manufacturers, I would have to put Atlas at the top for overall everything. This is combining all aspects of bad and good. Though they may not be road specific. Atlas has the best thin paint application. Crispest lettering. Fine tuned assembly. Straight handrails. Nothing glued on. Easy disassembly without breaking anything off in the process and great running quality. Kato is second to Atlas because the paint quality is not as good. And, Atlas still offers undecorated models with each run. Sorry but my experiences with Atlas recently have been not as good: Paint generally too thickly applied and very comparable to BLI's too thick paint jobs. U23B's with some items not fitting 100% and noticeable glue marks on the bodies (not easily cleaned up or removied at all). U28CG's from the recent U boat run have better assembly QA/QC but stuff is definitely glued on, which I don't mind as long as it's done neatly. On the U28CG's they are done pretty neatly--but the sound is just bad. Return to topic. |
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Post by jonklein611 on May 31, 2023 8:38:13 GMT -8
While Rapido uses Loksound V5 decoders they still insist on creating their own proprietary sound files. The quality is Rapido's responsibility, not ESU's. they don't do that for everything, in fact on most of their recent models they have used stock ESU files. The only ones I know of that they recorded themselves are: - FP9 - GMD-1/SW1200 (they used the GMD-1 recording in the 1200) - FPA-4 - RDC - M420 And for the most part I have found Rapido's sound files to be about on par with ESU's stock files, or better in some cases. Their sound file in the FPA-4 is quite good, actually. It's got that ALCO bark to it for sure. The stock sound file on ESU's website seems lacking in comparison. The ESU fans love to blame Rapido for the quality whenever someone has a complaint about the sound in their units but MOST OF THE TIME they are using stock ESU files, and even when they aren't, at the end of the day it is still ESU who takes the actual recordings and makes them into a sound file. Rapido doesn't have any audio engineers on staff. So if the horn is 1/4 the volume that it should be in the mix, that is 100% on whoever the person is at ESU who created and mixed that sound file. I think they also recorded the LRC and RDC as well. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2023 10:53:47 GMT -8
I have owned the Rapido FPA4 and the Alco/MLW sounds were very good indeed; in fact both FPA4 units I owned were very nicely done in all ways.
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Post by fishbelly on May 31, 2023 11:53:14 GMT -8
Well, I guess my experience with Atlas is from an era long past now. Hmm. To bad. Still though they offer undecorated models with each run so that still puts them on top in my purchasing category.
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Post by locochris on Jun 14, 2023 16:54:47 GMT -8
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Post by 12bridge on Jun 14, 2023 17:30:39 GMT -8
I have seen no less then 3 different threads on other groups with people sharing their rendering photos...and people thinking they were finished models.
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Post by fishbelly on Jun 14, 2023 18:14:45 GMT -8
The BN version has a "Notched Piolot". Now I know the correct pronunciation.
If these are production samples. I give props to whoever assembled them. It appears that care was taken to ensure a clean assembly. I am having a hard time with the trucks for some reason. I cannot put my finger on what I see or do not see. Although they are not as bad as I had been envisioning with the preproduction samples. The spring hangers definitely look more correct. I have to get at least one with hopes it will have a Piolot. I think I am going to get one Penn Central to run with my Atlas PC oil bath GP38's. The models really do not look to bad.
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Post by 12bridge on Jun 14, 2023 18:24:45 GMT -8
The BN version has a "Notched Piolot". Now I know the correct pronunciation. If these are production samples. I give props to whoever assembled them. It appears that care was taken to ensure a clean assembly. I am having a hard time with the trucks for some reason. I cannot put my finger on what I see or do not see. Although they are not as bad as I had been envisioning with the preproduction samples. The spring hangers definitely look more correct. I have to get at least one with hopes it will have a Piolot. I think I am going to get one Penn Central to run with my Atlas PC oil bath GP38's. The models really do not look to bad. They are all 3d renderings, not production samples, so they are all "perfect". The only production sample is that hand painted ATSF one. |
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Post by fishbelly on Jun 14, 2023 18:27:25 GMT -8
The BN version has a "Notched Piolot". Now I know the correct pronunciation. If these are production samples. I give props to whoever assembled them. It appears that care was taken to ensure a clean assembly. I am having a hard time with the trucks for some reason. I cannot put my finger on what I see or do not see. Although they are not as bad as I had been envisioning with the preproduction samples. The spring hangers definitely look more correct. I have to get at least one with hopes it will have a Piolot. I think I am going to get one Penn Central to run with my Atlas PC oil bath GP38's. The models really do not look to bad. They are all 3d renderings, not production samples, so they are all "perfect". The only production sample is that hand painted ATSF one. Thank you for the heads up because I could not tell. Wish they would not do that with renderings. I think I may not get one now. |
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Post by cemr5396 on Jun 14, 2023 18:53:48 GMT -8
They are all 3d renderings, not production samples, so they are all "perfect". The only production sample is that hand painted ATSF one. Thank you for the heads up because I could not tell. Wish they would not do that with renderings. I think I may not get one now. This is EXACTLY why they do the renders. They probably fool a lot of people into thinking the models are better than they actually are. |
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Post by locochris on Jun 14, 2023 19:06:06 GMT -8
They are all 3d renderings, not production samples, so they are all "perfect". The only production sample is that hand painted ATSF one. To be fair, the hand painted one was a pre-production sample, not production sample. |
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Post by jonklein611 on Jun 15, 2023 3:33:47 GMT -8
Personally, the full color renders are better than the previous renders all in grey. Lots of detail was lost.
I do wish Rapido would do full color renders from head on (back, front) and each side, along with the 3/4 profile view. Would help catch things in design space vs. after molds are cut.
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Post by cemr5396 on Jun 15, 2023 5:30:59 GMT -8
I do wish Rapido would do full color renders from head on (back, front) and each side, along with the 3/4 profile view. Would help catch things in design space vs. after molds are cut. It would if that was the purpose behind the renders. It isn't. I don't think the renders are even based off of the CAD used to make the model, to me they look like 'artist's impressions' of what the finished model will look like. There is some stuff that looks kind of like it would on a model, but there is other stuff that does not. |
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Post by gevohogger on Jun 15, 2023 5:33:59 GMT -8
I have seen no less then 3 different threads on other groups with people sharing their rendering photos...and people thinking they were finished models. They definitely fooled me at first. Eventually I realized the coupler is the giveaway that it isn't real. |
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Post by Baikal on Jun 15, 2023 7:44:10 GMT -8
I have seen no less then 3 different threads on other groups with people sharing their rendering photos...and people thinking they were finished models.
Jason Shron & company is under absolutely no moral obligation to disclose "problems" or if a "photo" is actually a rendering.
Buyers are judging Rapido from their perspective, which is often a very different perspective.
Rapido's goal is to make money for Rapido, period. If that's a problem for buyers, it's not Rapido's problem. Rapido doesn't care. They've told the model RRing communituy they don't care multiple times, usually with a smirk.
This attitude isn't confined to model railroading, it pervades many modern "western" financial transactions.
I don't like the way some people do business, but I'm aware of it. So I avoid dealing with dishonest (as seen from my perspective) people and companies as much as possible. No purchase = no problem.
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Post by Baikal on Jun 15, 2023 7:55:27 GMT -8
I do wish Rapido would do full color renders from head on (back, front) and each side, along with the 3/4 profile view. Would help catch things in design space vs. after molds are cut. It would if that was the purpose behind the renders. It isn't. I don't think the renders are even based off of the CAD used to make the model, to me they look like 'artist's impressions' of what the finished model will look like. There is some stuff that looks kind of like it would on a model, but there is other stuff that does not.
It's like architect's renderings of what your future downtown will look like. It never does.
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Post by sd80mac on Jun 16, 2023 6:47:27 GMT -8
There are several people on FB who are absolutely convinced that the photos of the renderings are photos of the actual model, which is amusing to me.
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Post by gevohogger on Jun 16, 2023 6:55:44 GMT -8
There are several people on FB who are absolutely convinced that the photos of the renderings are photos of the actual model, which is amusing to me. Could it be they just scrolled by them and didn't spend more than about five seconds looking at them? |
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Post by fr8kar on Jun 16, 2023 7:49:11 GMT -8
The perfectly vertical handrail stanchions are a dead giveaway those were renderings and not photos.
Still, I'd prefer a rendering that lets you know it's a rendering instead of one masquerading as a photo, especially when marketing a product that may or may not end up like the rendering (case in point: they called out the herald that is wrong in the rendering). An easy way to do this is to use the flat 256 color palette in the native CAD software, which is what Rapido used to do.
I think the perspective views Rapido is using are fine, so far as they are able to replicate field of view and focal length as if a camera was used to photograph a real model. It helps understand the model in context instead of floating in space the way those old renderings appeared. But it goes too far when they use photorealistic materials and skins to render the model because it gives an unrealistic view of a model that doesn't exist, especially considering the frequency of error creep in Rapido projects of late.
Either conspicuously label the renderings on the image or use materials/skins that don't represent the intended product. I don't think Rapido is intending to deliberately misrepresent their products with these renderings, but it's happening anyway when people mistake the rendered CAD file for the real thing.
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Post by Baikal on Jun 16, 2023 9:21:40 GMT -8
The perfectly vertical handrail stanchions are a dead giveaway those were renderings and not photos. Still, I'd prefer a rendering that lets you know it's a rendering instead of one masquerading as a photo, especially when marketing a product that may or may not end up like the rendering (case in point: they called out the herald that is wrong in the rendering). An easy way to do this is to use the flat 256 color palette in the native CAD software, which is what Rapido used to do. I think the perspective views Rapido is using are fine, so far as they are able to replicate field of view and focal length as if a camera was used to photograph a real model. It helps understand the model in context instead of floating in space the way those old renderings appeared. But it goes too far when they use photorealistic materials and skins to render the model because it gives an unrealistic view of a model that doesn't exist, especially considering the frequency of error creep in Rapido projects of late. Either conspicuously label the renderings on the image or use materials/skins that don't represent the intended product. I don't think Rapido is intending to deliberately misrepresent their products with these renderings, but it's happening anyway when people mistake the rendered CAD file for the real thing.
They are obviously trying to deliberately misrepresent. That's what they do, over & over. But people keep making excuses for them.
You assume they are not trying to deceive because you have a completely different mindset. |
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Post by hudsonyard on Jun 16, 2023 13:20:06 GMT -8
There are several people on FB who are absolutely convinced that the photos of the renderings are photos of the actual model, which is amusing to me.
I got into an interesting exchange with some nitwit on the chessie system modeling group over exactly this
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Post by cera2254 on Jun 16, 2023 16:01:17 GMT -8
Unfortunately it seems like Baikal is probably right, they should have labeled each individual image with the 3D rendering label.
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Post by SOMECALLMETIM on Jun 16, 2023 16:08:06 GMT -8
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