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Post by cera2254 on Jun 16, 2023 17:47:34 GMT -8
Saved that one for sure, good catch. Sigh, i guess when they come out we can see how they stack up. At least Matt Gentry is doing these. |
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Post by waverly5 on Jun 16, 2023 18:07:55 GMT -8
I never recall seeing a CR GP38....or any CR unit with the exception of E8 4022...with a black anti-glare panel on the nose.
Anybody?
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Post by Baikal on Jun 16, 2023 18:26:08 GMT -8
Saved that one for sure, good catch. Sigh, i guess when they come out we can see how they stack up. At least Matt Gentry is doing these.
Part of the URL Rapido is using for their renderings is "wysiwyg", which is an acronym for "What You See Is What You Get". LOL.
They could have used any characters in the URL but they choose to rub the lies in your face. Literally deceptive.
If you buy and sell from people you know are dishonest don't be surprised to have it come back and bite you later. Probably something in the New Testament about that, I suppose. My non-Abrahamic faith says avoid dishonest people. Your mileage may vary. Spend your money with honest people and the respect will be returned in the long run.
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Post by hudsonyard on Jun 16, 2023 18:37:00 GMT -8
the floating EMD builders plate is representative of the parts that will be flying off when you unbox the model
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cn2240
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by cn2240 on Jun 16, 2023 21:16:01 GMT -8
the floating EMD builders plate is representative of the parts that will be flying off when you unbox the model More like the parts that you see have already fallen off or are about to come off while the model is still in the box and on the shelf of the LHS |
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Post by typhoon on Jun 17, 2023 8:45:45 GMT -8
I never recall seeing a CR GP38....or any CR unit with the exception of E8 4022...with a black anti-glare panel on the nose. Anybody? I have seen some with them but not many. And never on a GP38.  crcyc.railfan.net/locos/ge/8c32/cr6613cfele.jpg |
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Post by John Sheridan on Jun 20, 2023 5:27:53 GMT -8
I do wish Rapido would do full color renders from head on (back, front) and each side, along with the 3/4 profile view. Would help catch things in design space vs. after molds are cut. It would if that was the purpose behind the renders. It isn't. I don't think the renders are even based off of the CAD used to make the model, to me they look like 'artist's impressions' of what the finished model will look like. There is some stuff that looks kind of like it would on a model, but there is other stuff that does not. I see you don't know how 3d CAD works do you ? Oh wait, here, i'll let you in on a little secret - They are really used for design review of the CAD work before tooling is cut. It helps to see the 3d render of the model @ any angle to figure out flaws & modifications before production. So jonlein611 is pretty much dead on. The color renders are a bonus since you can use the pantone matches & decal artwork to decorate the 3D model. These renders are created by Rapido's Jeremy (who is an insane evil genius) using Blender. Anything else you would like to know before you finish inserting the rest of your shoe in your mouth ? |
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Post by John Sheridan on Jun 20, 2023 5:32:58 GMT -8
Saved that one for sure, good catch. Sigh, i guess when they come out we can see how they stack up. At least Matt Gentry is doing these. Part of the URL Rapido is using for their renderings is "wysiwyg", which is an acronym for "What You See Is What You Get". LOL.
They could have used any characters in the URL but they choose to rub the lies in your face. Literally deceptive. If you buy and sell from people you know are dishonest don't be surprised to have it come back and bite you later. Probably something in the New Testament about that, I suppose. My non-Abrahamic faith says avoid dishonest people. Your mileage may vary. Spend your money with honest people and the respect will be returned in the long run. So lemme get this right - Since Rapido uses wysiwyg in their url makes them dishonest ? Really ? How ? Come on be honest. What really is the issue here is that you have some sort of personal grudge against Rapido. Amiright ? You can be honest & admit it instead of clutching at more staw to prop up your strawman argument(s). |
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Post by cemr5396 on Jun 20, 2023 5:43:04 GMT -8
It would if that was the purpose behind the renders. It isn't. I don't think the renders are even based off of the CAD used to make the model, to me they look like 'artist's impressions' of what the finished model will look like. There is some stuff that looks kind of like it would on a model, but there is other stuff that does not. I see you don't know how 3d CAD works do you ? Oh wait, here, i'll let you in on a little secret - They are really used for design review of the CAD work before tooling is cut. It helps to see the 3d render of the model @ any angle to figure out flaws & modifications before production. So jonlein611 is pretty much dead on. The color renders are a bonus since you can use the pantone matches & decal artwork to decorate the 3D model. These renders are created by Rapido's Jeremy (who is an insane evil genius) using Blender. Anything else you would like to know before you finish inserting the rest of your shoe in your mouth ? I'm well aware what CAD is and its role in the design process. I wasn't born yesterday - but thanks for the attitude. Stuff like this reminds me why I don't buy CRAPIDO any more. Anyone with eyes can tell that the renders are not the actual 'CAD design' renders, because they usually don't look anything like the finished model ends up looking like - and not in a good way. As in, it always looks better in the render than it does in real life. So unless the R&D people are going and actively making the model WORSE before it enters production, they are not the design renders. And using them as "design review of the CAD work before tooling is cut"? Don't make me laugh. The BLATANT mistakes on virtually every model coming out of that company these days would beg to differ. If those designs are passing review then EVERYONE needs to be fired. |
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Post by John Sheridan on Jun 20, 2023 6:30:47 GMT -8
I see you don't know how 3d CAD works do you ? Oh wait, here, i'll let you in on a little secret - They are really used for design review of the CAD work before tooling is cut. It helps to see the 3d render of the model @ any angle to figure out flaws & modifications before production. So jonlein611 is pretty much dead on. The color renders are a bonus since you can use the pantone matches & decal artwork to decorate the 3D model. These renders are created by Rapido's Jeremy (who is an insane evil genius) using Blender. Anything else you would like to know before you finish inserting the rest of your shoe in your mouth ? I'm well aware what CAD is and its role in the design process. I wasn't born yesterday - but thanks for the attitude. Stuff like this reminds me why I don't buy CRAPIDO any more. Anyone with eyes can tell that the renders are not the actual 'CAD design' renders, because they usually don't look anything like the finished model ends up looking like - and not in a good way. As in, it always looks better in the render than it does in real life. So unless the R&D people are going and actively making the model WORSE before it enters production, they are not the design renders. And using them as "design review of the CAD work before tooling is cut"? Don't make me laugh. The BLATANT mistakes on virtually every model coming out of that company these days would beg to differ. If those designs are passing review then EVERYONE needs to be fired. You are anything but well aware - I don't think so - not even remotely. Otherwise you would not be spouting such nonsense. Let's try this again so even YOU might grasp at the concept: The CAD files along with the renders (which come out of the exact same .STP file) are the actual pre-production model BEFORE it goes into tooling. The color renders are used for marketing purposes - however the they are both the same file. But you go right along & spout your so-called-facts & please do us all a favor & wipe the spit off your monitor. "And using them as "design review of the CAD work before tooling is cut"? Don't make me laugh. The BLATANT mistakes on virtually every model coming out of that company these days would beg to differ. If those designs are passing review then EVERYONE needs to be fired." Yes, out goes the baby with the bathwater. Wow you've hit it right out of the park with this one. It appears that you could do soooo much better than any of the CRAPIDO (your words) PMs so why not put-up or shut up ? Let's see how well YOU do by taking a project from start to finish & work with a manufacturer half-way around the planet. With all of your hindsight you should have no trouble whatsoever creating a 100% dead-on accurate model! Of course we both know you would never do this as you would rather point the finger at a company you clearly don't like & take potshots while hiding behind your keyboard. Right ? Do us all a favor & give us your name & show us all your warez. Otherwise STFU. |
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Post by fishbelly on Jun 20, 2023 7:44:29 GMT -8
John Sheridan wrote: "It appears that you could do soooo much better than any of the CRAPIDO (your words) PMs so why not put-up or shut up ? Let's see how well YOU do by taking a project from start to finish & work with a manufacturer half-way around the planet. With all of your hindsight you should have no trouble whatsoever creating a 100% dead-on accurate model!"
Wait! Doesn't Rapido own their own factory in China? That is the impression I get from all the factory tours. So isn't Rapido the manufacturer? I do not know. I am just asking.
The right person with the same financial fortitude could very well do soooo much better. Rapido has the money, but sorry to say. Not the person.
Now that is not to say I will not purchase any Rapido products. If I can rebuild them. Then I will buy what I can use. Case in point is I will be purchasing the Rapido EL U25B with plans to disassemble and strip it because of no undecs. Possibly change the motor to a Kato motor. As long as I can do stuff like that. Then I do not care.
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Post by Baikal on Jun 20, 2023 8:01:37 GMT -8
Part of the URL Rapido is using for their renderings is "wysiwyg", which is an acronym for "What You See Is What You Get". LOL.
They could have used any characters in the URL but they choose to rub the lies in your face. Literally deceptive. If you buy and sell from people you know are dishonest don't be surprised to have it come back and bite you later. Probably something in the New Testament about that, I suppose. My non-Abrahamic faith says avoid dishonest people. Your mileage may vary. Spend your money with honest people and the respect will be returned in the long run. So lemme get this right - Since Rapido uses wysiwyg in their url makes them dishonest ? Really ? How ? Come on be honest. What really is the issue here is that you have some sort of personal grudge against Rapido. Amiright ? You can be honest & admit it instead of clutching at more staw to prop up your strawman argument(s).
Using renderings for marketing while implying (overtly or covertly) that they are photos of physical models is defacto dishonest.
You seem to be cut from the same cloth as Jason Sharon.
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Post by Baikal on Jun 20, 2023 8:07:09 GMT -8
I see you don't know how 3d CAD works do you ? Oh wait, here, i'll let you in on a little secret - They are really used for design review of the CAD work before tooling is cut. It helps to see the 3d render of the model @ any angle to figure out flaws & modifications before production. So jonlein611 is pretty much dead on. The color renders are a bonus since you can use the pantone matches & decal artwork to decorate the 3D model. These renders are created by Rapido's Jeremy (who is an insane evil genius) using Blender. Anything else you would like to know before you finish inserting the rest of your shoe in your mouth ? Anyone with eyes can tell that the renders are not the actual 'CAD design' renders, because they usually don't look anything like the finished model ends up looking like - and not in a good way. As in, it always looks better in the render than it does in real life.
Exactly. In other words Rapido uses dishonest marketing methods.
Not good, but it's becoming more & more common in the West today. Lies everywhere, from finance to running endless wars... The same culture.
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Post by John Sheridan on Jun 20, 2023 8:33:37 GMT -8
So lemme get this right - Since Rapido uses wysiwyg in their url makes them dishonest ? Really ? How ? Come on be honest. What really is the issue here is that you have some sort of personal grudge against Rapido. Amiright ? You can be honest & admit it instead of clutching at more staw to prop up your strawman argument(s). Using renderings for marketing while implying (overtly or covertly) that they are photos of physical models is defacto dishonest. You seem to be cut from the same cloth as Jason Sharon.
Care to point out where they state that the renders are actual models ? Technically, the renders are from the CAD file of the model from the factory so you are looking at the actual product - pre-production & subject to change. Things can change from pre-production to final assembly. "You seem to be cut from the same cloth as Jason Sharon." That's not an insult so keep trying. |
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Post by John Sheridan on Jun 20, 2023 8:38:09 GMT -8
Anyone with eyes can tell that the renders are not the actual 'CAD design' renders, because they usually don't look anything like the finished model ends up looking like - and not in a good way. As in, it always looks better in the render than it does in real life. Exactly. In other words Rapido uses dishonest marketing methods. Not good, but it's becoming more & more common in the West today. Lies everywhere, from finance to running endless wars... The same culture.
In the West ? I'm sure where you are from, everyone is 100% honest & upfront right ? Please continue to lecture us about "western" culture. I'm amused. Твой троллинг наводит на плохие мысли? |
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Post by lvrr325 on Jun 20, 2023 9:12:43 GMT -8
I never recall seeing a CR GP38....or any CR unit with the exception of E8 4022...with a black anti-glare panel on the nose. Anybody? By the time I was seeing them even if the paint looked fairly fresh from the ground, the upper flat surfaces tended to have a heavy coat of rust as the anti-glare. Pre-orders have closed on these, so I guess we'll see what shows up how they actually are. |
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Post by cemr5396 on Jun 20, 2023 10:48:05 GMT -8
The CAD files along with the renders (which come out of the exact same .STP file) are the actual pre-production model BEFORE it goes into tooling. The color renders are used for marketing purposes - however the they are both the same file. so tell me, Mr All Knowing Rapido Man: If they are truly 100% the same file, than WHY 9 times out of 10 does the finished production model Rapido is selling, look WORSE in terms of prototype correctness than the renders did? What kind of horrible misfortune is befalling all of these models in between CAD and production?Why is this about me now? I am not the one getting paid to design scale models for a living. If I was, and I was doing that quality of work, I would EXPECT to be let go, just as I would if I was doing poor work at my actual job. And also, I never said a single thing about 100% dead on accurate - you did. I don't expect perfection, but I sure as hell expect better. The kind of blindingly obvious mistakes that are being made are completely unacceptable, regardless of who is making them. I think the far more relevant question, is this: how does the likes of Tangent, Genesis, Scale Trains, Walthers, Atlas, etc consistently produce better models (locomotives OR freight cars) that are better quality than Rapido, in some cases by leaps and bounds? Their people are also taking their projects from start to finish and working with people halfway across the planet and they are better at it than Rapido is. Somebody better tell them all that what they are doing shouldn't be possible, and they should knock it off because "it's too hard" or something. Hey, I USED to like Rapido. They made some stuff I really liked. I even defended them over some previous transgressions, that some things were said about I thought were unfair at the time. The last couple years and the repeated denial and refusal to fix obvious mistakes when they are pointed out with good intentions at a time in the development process when they could still be fixed, and the attitude of the company as a whole when confronted about said issues have soured me. It is clear it's not actually about making high quality models any more. When (nearly) any other company makes a mistake that I have contacted them about, the answer is almost always something along the lines of "oh, we're sorry about that, what can we do to fix it?" or at least an explaination of why they might have had to compromise a certain thing in the interest of being able to make the model at all. With Rapido, if anyone DARES question them, the response is usually swift, indignant, and often personal, regardless of how the complaint is presented - as long as there is a screen between them and you. In person, they at least make an attempt to be civil. In other words, Rapido is guilty of the exact type of behavior as they love to accuse the modeling community in general of. Your post is a textbook example. And no, contrary to what you may think, I am not biased. My only bias is quality, and Rapido ain't it. Yup, there is that trademark Rapido bad attitude. Shades of "Go jump in a lake", "if you don't like it we will sell it to someone else", and the classic "90% of modelers don't care, so why should we" I've posted my own work plenty of times, contrary to what you are implying it isn't any less valid just because I'm not selling it. |
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Post by cemr5396 on Jun 20, 2023 10:50:01 GMT -8
The right person with the same financial fortitude could very well do soooo much better. Rapido has the money, but sorry to say. Not the person. I could not agree with this statement more. |
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Post by sd80mac on Jun 20, 2023 11:17:13 GMT -8
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Post by lvrr325 on Jun 20, 2023 11:41:58 GMT -8
that whole "we will sell to someone else" thing is a terrible attitude that will bite them eventually.
I have a lot of Rapido now that's proven to be virtually unsellable at any price. Not because anything is particularly wrong with it but because it's too expensive in the first place. Maybe they sell it but it sits on a dealer's shelf until he decides to blow it out below cost.
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Post by John Sheridan on Jun 20, 2023 11:53:03 GMT -8
Uhh because they only started using the process of reviewing the CAD files only in the last couple of years & not on every product yet ? The process is being used more & more as the PMs get used to looking at the models this way instead of the old way which is to review EASM files which are less detail & harder to work on. We won't even discuss how sometimes the Engineers in China change things after-the-fact & not inform you until you open the box & review the conents. Covid put a huge issue with the entire review process that used to be in-place.
Who says they aren't ? If you look back a bit, Scaletrains announced that they were shipping an entire run back to the factory because of detail issues. AN ENTIRE RUN.
It happens with every single manufacturer - you don't always hear about it other than "product delay".
I know the people personally who own/work for the above companies above & they don't say much of anything these days other than product announcements. Care to guess why ?
OTOH, over in the Scaletrains buys Exactrail thread, I was shocked to see Shane actually pop in to directly confront one of our resident trolls.
Jason & co used to come right on this forum & be up front & honest about problems. All it took was a group of trolls to ruin it. If you read any post here on the forum, you will see the same six characters hijack any thread with the word RAPIDO in it so they can begin "The airing of Greivences" over & over. Then you sit there & wonder why they don't come here any more.
Well since they do not post or respond to anything on this forum, where else are you getting this responses from them ? Or are you simply making it up or worse, holding a grude that is years old like it was yesterday.
Yeah, too bad I do not work for or represent Rapido in any way shape or fashion. I used to work for them in the past (along with Athearn, Walthers, Atlas, Intermountain, Microscale, etc.) so your quote is meaningless.
I do however know a considerable amount of people in the Industry & understand how the Sausage is made so I can quote with authority. Unlike you who makes baseless claims & continues to prop up those strawmen.
Yet you made a claim that is 100% false. I just called you out on it. Didn't like that did you ?
That's awesome. Now make 3000 of each of your models. They all need to be 100% flawless & exactly the same, with precise prototypical details.
Then come back & tell me how hard it is. That's the industry in a nutshell.
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Post by cemr5396 on Jun 20, 2023 13:15:58 GMT -8
Uhh because they only started using the process of reviewing the CAD files only in the last couple of years & not on every product yet ? The process is being used more & more as the PMs get used to looking at the models this way instead of the old way which is to review EASM files which are less detail & harder to work on. OK but this topic started with the use of renders, which has only been a thing for the last couple years. I'm not talking about anything before that because they weren't using those renders (at least for public showing) before that. I still don't understand why the render looks different than the real life model (again, usually not for the better) if they are based on the same drawings. That is the number one question I have, and you completely side stepped it. I would rather not hear about it but have it get fixed before it becomes MY problem, then to get hit with the "well too bad, the factory screwed us again" excuse for the 20th time. If the factory screwed something up, make them fix it. If the factory is continually screwing up, maybe consider not doing business with that specific factory any more. The consumer should not have to suffer for the factory's faults. That's what Scale Trains did when they sent that run of locomotives back. If they don't want to come here any more I could not care less, but I fail to see how that equates to being sloppy when developing models and the refusal to fix the resulting mistakes, unless the oversight from all the knowledgable people here was the only thing keeping that from happening to begin with. Because this forum is the only place on the Internet where one can interact with someone else? The responses have been the same across the board: FB, email, Youtube comments, makes no difference. And the specific instances I was referring to have all happened within the past year. Everyone else seems to be managing it fairly well. Other than the usual excuses of "covid" and "the factory screwed us" I don't see any concrete reasons why Rapido seems to find it so hard. Covid was a world wide problem and you claim that factories screwing over model companies happens all the time which means..... that Rapido is in the exact same boat as everyone else making model trains overseas. All things are equal.....except they aren't. If you can give me a convincing argument for why that is, I'll give Rapido a free pass every time they screw up and defend them at any and all opportunities. This should be good. |
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Post by talltim on Jun 20, 2023 14:19:26 GMT -8
I don’t understand why you think they’d go to the effort of making two CAD models?
A well done render will always look ‘better’ than the finished product because the placement of all the components is exact, the paint is spot on, no glue is needed and the handrails are completely straight.
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Post by John Sheridan on Jun 20, 2023 14:59:31 GMT -8
The difference is pretty simple - You are used to looking at actual models in the past. Now with renders, you don't get a sense of scale as to what you are looking at. Case in point - Everyone complained the U25 are way too fat! I'll cancel my order!!!!!
The truth is that when looking at a render your typical view is about 3 inches away from the model. At that range, every detail looks exagerated when in truth they are not. It takes a bit to adapt to that level.
Another example- When people looked at the renders of the u25b, it looked like the handrails were fat (see above). Due to how the handrails on the 1:1 scale model are designed on phases I-III (phase IV U25b s have actual stanchions), you cannot use scale wire with the stanchions formed around them as Rapido would trypcially do. The handrails on the U25b are approx .020inches in diameter. Why ? Because if they are any smaller they would not come out of the mold & be straight, they would start flexing & deforming if using ABS plastic. If you use polystyrene, yes you could make them thinner but they would become far more fragile. Athearn found this out the hard way. I can give you more examples but I think you get the point.
That's easier siad than done. If you change factories, you need to get everything from the former factory & move it to the new factory. During Covid, you could not travel to China AT ALL to ensure that your molds made it to the new factory. Since you are not doing business with old factory they have no incentive to help you move your molds & tooling. Let's not even mention that there now way you move the molds, set up shop, & bingo! back in production! so fast. There are delays - many delays, vendor moves, etc. It takes months to transistion to a new factory which you are trying to due by phone instead of going out there yourself. Meanwhile, while the molds sit on a shelf somewhere, that's your money not making any money. If you look back about 14 years ago with the Kader debacle, many of your favorite venders almost went out of businees because of zero revenue & no product - mind you this was before Covid which made things so much worse..
Agreed. HOWEVER..... it does happen. Scaletrains took a risk but you need to understand that the run they rejected was already paid for in-full (all items are paid-in full before it leaves the dock) before it shipped the 1st time. Sending it back ? That's your money sitting on the shelf while the factory fixed his problem. Sometimes income vs outcome are too narrow to do this. OTOH, what do you do if the factory says "no" ? That an expensive decision.
You need to understand that there are some things that can be fixed - Like the RS-11 body shell removal (it was fixed with the 2nd run at Rapido's expense BTW) vs motors from a bad vendor & ESU bugs in their V5 decoder which showed up after the production reached the customer. Oh, BTW, rapido fixed that too at their own expense. Did other manufactrurers have the motor/decoder bug ? Yep. You just didn't hear about it.
Another issue was the infamous B36-7 CSX stairs that Rapido declined to do. Why did they decline ? Because the orders for that locomotive were so poor, they would have lost thousands of dollars in tooling the stairs & could not recover it as the sales for that locomotive were so bad.
Somtimes things are simply missed by the PM. They are human after all. Usually they are fixed in the 2nd run - it depends (see above).
There are plenty of other forums out there. I'm still suprised this one is still around frankly. The gang of six has pretty much driven off all the manufacturers with their vitrol & spiteful comments.
Again, says who ? I can tell you that every model railroad manufacturer has had their own set of problems with their factories - covid made it worse. This is mainly due to the fact that they could not get out there the usual 4 times a year to work with the factories. That is about to change now that China is back open.
You do understand, there are some things that can be fixed. There are some things that cannot be fixed. It all comes down to how much it would take to fix, if the problem is major or minor, & lastly, can it be fixed within a reasonable cost or do you eat into sales. The current projects in the pipeline are paying the bills. No product - no payroll, no income, no business.
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Post by John Sheridan on Jun 20, 2023 15:06:16 GMT -8
I don’t understand why you think they’d go to the effort of making two CAD models? A well done render will always look ‘better’ than the finished product because the placement of all the components is exact, the paint is spot on, no glue is needed and the handrails are completely straight. Pretty much correct. To take the CAD & render it into a image of the finished product is not that difficult. You can take the tampo artwork you created for the project & place it on the model just like if you were decalling it yourself. The biggest Challenge with doing this is you: Need someone who understands how to work with 3d CAD. Need to know how to render the CAD image into something useful. Time. Those images you see on Rapidos website take HOURS to create for each locomotive/boxcar/etc.. However, once you sucessfully create it, you can take the finished render & position it any way you want in a few seconds. |
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Post by Baikal on Jun 20, 2023 15:22:16 GMT -8
The difference is pretty simple - You are used to looking at actual models in the past. Now with renders, you don't get a sense of scale as to what you are looking at. Case in point - Everyone complained the U25 are way too fat! I'll cancel my order!!!!! The truth is that when looking at a render your typical view is about 3 inches away from the model. At that range, every detail looks exagerated when in truth they are not. It takes a bit to adapt to that level. Another example- When people looked at the renders of the u25b, it looked like the handrails were fat (see above). Due to how the handrails on the 1:1 scale model are designed on phases I-III (phase IV U25b s have actual stanchions), you cannot use scale wire with the stanchions formed around them as Rapido would trypcially do. The handrails on the U25b are approx .040inches in diameter. Why ? Because if they are any smaller they would not come out of the mold & be straight, they would start flexing & deforming if using ABS plastic. If you use polystyrene, yes you could make them thinner but they would become far more fragile. Athearn found this out the hard way. I can give you more examples but I think you get the point. That's easier siad than done. If you change factories, you need to get everything from the former factory & move it to the new factory. During Covid, you could not travel to China AT ALL to ensure that your molds made it to the new factory. Since you are not doing business with old factory they have no incentive to help you move your molds & tooling. Let's not even mention that there now way you move the molds, set up shop, & bingo! back in production! so fast. There are delays - many delays, vendor moves, etc. It takes months to transistion to a new factory which you are trying to due by phone instead of going out there yourself. Meanwhile, while the molds sit on a shelf somewhere, that's your money not making any money. If you look back about 14 years ago with the Kader debacle, many of your favorite venders almost went out of businees because of zero revenue & no product - mind you this was before Covid which made things so much worse.. Agreed. HOWEVER..... it does happen. Scaletrains took a risk but you need to understand that the run they rejected was already paid for in-full (all items are paid-in full before it leaves the dock) before it shipped the 1st time. Sending it back ? That's your money sitting on the shelf while the factory fixed his problem. Sometimes income vs outcome are too narrow to do this. OTOH, what do you do if the factory says "no" ? That an expensive decision. You need to understand that there are some things that can be fixed - Like the RS-11 body shell removal (it was fixed with the 2nd run at Rapido's expense BTW) vs motors from a bad vendor & ESU bugs in their V5 decoder which showed up after the production reached the customer. Oh, BTW, rapido fixed that too at their own expense. Did other manufactrurers have the motor/decoder bug ? Yep. You just didn't hear about it. Another issue was the infamous B36-7 CSX stairs that Rapido declined to do. Why did they decline ? Because the orders for that locomotive were so poor, they would have lost thousands of dollars in tooling the stairs & could not recover it as the sales for that locomotive were so bad. Somtimes things are simply missed by the PM. They are human after all. Usually they are fixed in the 2nd run - it depends (see above). There are plenty of other forums out there. I'm still suprised this one is still around frankly. The gang of six has pretty much driven off all the manufacturers with their vitrol & spiteful comments. Again, says who ? I can tell you that every model railroad manufacturer has had their own set of problems with their factories - covid made it worse. This is mainly due to the fact that they could not get out there the usual 4 times a year to work with the factories. That is about to change now that China is back open. You do understand, there are some things that can be fixed. There are some things that cannot be fixed. It all comes down to how much it would take to fix, if the problem is major or minor, & lastly, can it be fixed within a reasonable cost or do you eat into sales. The current projects in the pipeline are paying the bills. No product - no payroll, no income, no business.
Wow that's a heapin' helpin' of excuses. I'll bookmark it and finish reading in the library before bed.
0.04" diameter handrails = about 3.5" in HO scale! What a shame. Thanks for the heads up on that problem.
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Post by fr8kar on Jun 20, 2023 15:29:01 GMT -8
Wow that's a heapin' helpin' of excuses. I'll bookmark it and finish reading in the library before bed. 0.04" diameter handrails = about 3.5" in HO scale! What a shame. Thanks for the heads up on that problem.
The prototype is 1.25" OD pipe with 1" rod for the vertical portions of the railing. That's for GE. EMD only uses the 1" rod all around. |
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Post by cemr5396 on Jun 20, 2023 15:45:28 GMT -8
You do understand, there are some things that can be fixed. There are some things that cannot be fixed. It all comes down to how much it would take to fix, if the problem is major or minor, & lastly, can it be fixed within a reasonable cost or do you eat into sales. The current projects in the pipeline are paying the bills. No product - no payroll, no income, no business. The key is to fix the mistakes when it is affordable and easy to do so, rather than at the point where it is not. Like you mentioned, if a mistake makes it all the way through until right before the model ships it might be too late by then. There is no such thing as a mistake that can't be fixed, if you catch it at the right time. The solution is to be extra careful at the stage when everything is just lines on a screen. That is when it is the easiest to fix. Double, Triple, Quadruple check. Check 20 times if that is what it takes to find all the mistakes. If you don't, you end up wasting a bunch of money on tooling that is no good. Case in point - the first run of RS11s and RS18s and the completely dumb way they were built. I think Bowser has found an absolutely genius solution to this problem. They do all the CAD work, and then they 3D print a sample to look at (and show everyone else) at which point if a mistake is found they just fix the CAD and try again. A serious mistake never makes it to the tooling stage. They first did it with the RS3, then with the SD30C-ECO and the upcoming SD40-2W. |
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Post by csxt8400 on Jun 20, 2023 16:11:44 GMT -8
Curiousity is getting the best of me John, I think you should highlight the group of six that you find the biggest disdain.
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Post by fishbelly on Jun 20, 2023 18:04:34 GMT -8
The difference is pretty simple - You are used to looking at actual models in the past. Now with renders, you don't get a sense of scale as to what you are looking at. Case in point - Everyone complained the U25 are way too fat! I'll cancel my order!!!!! The truth is that when looking at a render your typical view is about 3 inches away from the model. At that range, every detail looks exagerated when in truth they are not. It takes a bit to adapt to that level. Boy ain't that the truth. Take a picture of a finished Kato GP35 or Atlas RS11 and the handrails look WAY fatter than they actually are viewed in person. Overly exaggerated in the photo. |
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